Does anal sex need explicit consent?

[TellingFriends]

2 month relationship.

Man and woman have consensual PIV sex. Is it acceptable for him to have anal sex with her without asking first?

Woman would not have consented if asked beforehand but did not stop him.

Is it fair for him to assume the woman will say no if she doesn't want it?

Woman had never had anal sex before. Woman is also a CSA survivor but he didn't know this.

You're a rape apologist; it's nothing to crow about.

@Divasaurus

And if she had screamed out in pain and tried to fight him off then would you consider it rape?

At that point the penetration has already happened.

You're judging the act by her reaction, not his action.

And if she had screamed out in pain and tried to fight him off then would you consider it rape?

At that point the penetration has already happened.

You're judging the act by her reaction, not his action

Absolutely this. Anyone with common sense can see this.

Presumably at some point you've had conversations with your partner about this stuff over the years?

So, I've been with DP for 20 years. The first 10 or so times we kissed, I asked if it was OK to kiss her. She always answered in the affirmative, so I pretty much knew that she was happy for me to kiss her. So I stopped asking. But I'm still looking for consent whenever I kiss her. I'll lean in, and wait a couple of hundreths of a second, to check she's OK with it. Sometimes I don't get it. Maybe we had an argument recently, and she's not quite over it, maybe she's just touched out from all day with a toddler, maybe she just thinks she's got garlic breath so doesn't want to. She stiffens, or doesn't lean in towards me. If I get any sign at all that she might not want a kiss, I check verbally. Sometimes I get it wrong, she's into it but I've read the sign wrong. Great, I'd rather have consent and not know it than not have consent and get it wrong.

DP loves having her back stroked. That's a 100% of the time thing. I don't ask. If my hand heads down to her bum and she's not in the mood, she'll tell me. We discussed that decades ago, it's settled. If she starts grinding her hips a little involuntarily, then I know I'm OK to put my hand inside her underwear. If I don't get that signal, then I'm asking first. It doesn't need to be "Please may I use my hands on your genitals", just a tug on the waistband and a "Shall I?"

And so on and so forth, a seconds wait before entering her, or her knowing that I'm only ever happy to have a blowjob if I've showered before bed. A finger or more up the bum is always ALWAYs a verbal check, because I know that she's sometimes into it and sometimes not, and I have no non-verbal cue to what shes feeling that night.

What you can assume and what you need to check in every situation is something you learn with a partner over weeks, months, years, and even decades. You start off asking about everything and then you slowly learn what the non-verbal cues mean. And if ever something feels off, or stiff, or quieter than usual, or just wrong for some reason, you stop. Instantly. And you talk about it and find out what, if anything is wrong.

OP was with a newish partner, and he did something that they'd never together before. And he didn't ask, he didn't check. He had no way of knowing the non-verbal cues, because they'd never done this before. He couldn't have known whether he had consent. As I said before, silence is not consent. Freezing is not consent. Him guessing "She's OK with this" is not consent. Therefore he did not know if he had consent. Sex without consent is rape. He is a rapist.

For a moment of levity, let's enjoy that my phone corrected dick to duck. 😅

I did nothing of the sort - at no point have I said that OP responded inappropriately. I called out others who were terming her partner a rapist when very clearly this wasn’t the case. I also said several times - if you actually read my post - that this man is disgusting. No one is defending his actions.

In terms of being concerned, I could say the same about you and any children you might have, especially boys!

This x 1000

No wonder the rape conviction rate is so pathetic. These terribly regressive attitudes make it practically impossible to get a jury to convict unless you've been beaten to a pulp.

Pathetic in this day and age that people don't know and understand about the freeze response.

It's perfectly simple, get consent for any sexual act, especially if it's likely to be painful and require care to make sure it doesn't hurt.

I don't have stats on how common these things happen. Anecdotally I've heard of accidents like this happening, with all men being oblivious and stopping once they've been alerted.

I dont what applies here but I've already said if it was intentional then OP should end relationship and approach authorities.

Is it actually possibly to accidentally slip into someone's anus?

I'm of the impression it would require a pretty hard jab or manoeuvring of some kind.

I found this video on consent helpful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pMON_0I6ykc

@Divasaurus

In terms of being concerned, I could say the same about you and any children you might have, especially boys!

You think it's 'concerning' that I would tell my children that I believe sex acts without consent, with a new partner with whom those acts have never been discussed, especially an act widely known to be painful if not prepared for, is rape?

Bizarre.

Exactly I find it more shocking in this day and age that misogyny is still tolerated and men with sexual entitlement think is it ok to just do a sexual act without asking and discussing it with their partner first. Even more shocking is marital rape wasn't a crime until that law was abolished in 1991!!! We clearly have a long way to go to get rid of those bullshit rape and sexual assault myths

@Outliers

Anecdotally I've heard of accidents like this happening, with all men being oblivious and stopping once they've been alerted.

With all men claiming to have been oblivious.

Juicyfroott · Today 20:34
If you've never had anal before then did you not jump out of your skin?!

Stop victim blaming. She was probably too shocked to say/do anything.

It needed consent as much as with PIV sex.

I don't agree with a PP who comments that every new sex act requires consent.
Can I finger you? Can I rub your cliteros? Can I touch your willy and is it OK if I squeeze your balls? Sounds a turn off and completely mechanical.

However, asking for a anal sex; PIV and even oral sex does require some form of consent.

Not for continued action no. DH has nearly accidentally done this but straight away was woops wrong place sorry and didn’t proceed as we’d had that conversation and he knew it was a no. IMO anal requires a lot more prep and communication whilst not in that situation so everyone is on the same page. If you haven’t, and he proceeds anyway then it’s many shades of wrong.

Of course it’s not if I was, but I’m not. Being someone who is willing to call out and even prosecute someone as perpetrating a violent crime against a woman when they haven’t (even if behaviour is morally reprehensible) is also nothing to crow about.

If you're confident that any man will be happy to wake up with a cucumber inserted rectally, then you have your answer.

If you get the opportunity, read up on the journey to get marital rape recognised. It took activists decades.

It seems to be getting worse. Someone on this thread was telling me how young women nowadays don't need to consent to anal sex as it's just expected.

I'm devastated for any women forced or coerced into unwanted sex acts.

Two totally different things- explicit, clear consent needs to be given prior to starting.

No. However your willingness to term somebody a rapist when they are not is deeply concerning and says a lot about you as a person and your lack of critical thinking/judgment/willingness to destroy somebody’s life without the evidence to back you up. These are not personality traits/attitudes I would want to pass on to my children. But don’t worry - judging by the majority of the posters on this thread, you are in very good company!

Here's the law:

(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

B or the OP did not consent to anal sex.

A the perpetrator could not reasonably believe there was consent because he didn't ask and she had her back to him. There had been no discussion of anal sex prior to penetration and no preparation - which is usual with anal sex.

Ergo - rape.

@Divasaurus

This woman wrote what I was trying to say better. By the time you react and say "I don't consent to that" - it's already happened. It's TOO LATE, the rape has already happened.