Does anal sex need explicit consent?

[TellingFriends]

2 month relationship.

Man and woman have consensual PIV sex. Is it acceptable for him to have anal sex with her without asking first?

Woman would not have consented if asked beforehand but did not stop him.

Is it fair for him to assume the woman will say no if she doesn't want it?

Woman had never had anal sex before. Woman is also a CSA survivor but he didn't know this.

Nobody had to argue. Everybody could have discussed, they’re different things.

This poster (me, btw) is saying… again, that the law is evidently the law but that some operate on an assumed consent basis. Not that it’s right or legal to do so, but that they do. That’s said, for what I’m hoping is the last time, with no judgement or harshness intended, just that it’s a fact. We can’t remove facts that you don’t like.

You’re not misunderstanding. You’re understanding perfectly, and then saying the same things over and over again, waiting for a different response.

I must admit I haven't kept up with the disagreements but I really appreciate those that have been kind and supportive.

Unfortunately this was not the first time I've been raped and the uncertainty, confusion, denial and disbelief is familiar. I'm sure I'm not the only woman to question if it's me who's misinterpreted a situation or to blame myself for getting into that situation.

I think it's a common misconception that rape is violent or done by a stranger. Both times with me it was someone I trusted .

It feels easier to believe that it's me who is wrong than to admit to myself I've been raped twice.

Thank you for the advice. My local rape crisis service is terrible (long story) but I have a good therapist.

So sorry this has happened to you twice and I am glad you are getting support. It makes sense now that you were questioning whether it was assumed consent as the reality that you’ve been raped of course is worse. Take care of yourself 💐

I'm so sorry op.

What he did, changing from vaginal to anal penetration (which you'd never even done together before), with you sleepy, having taken a sedative, holding you tightly from behind, with no discussion or making it clear what he was about to do ... Was rape.

His disappearance since, after 7/8 dates is very telling too.

Even if every woman he was with before was ok with anal.sex (unlikely) and ok with him initiating it for he first time (or any time) without making it very clear he was going to do it and giving the woman the opportunity to consent or not (also unlikely)...... He had no right to assume you (i.e. every woman).would.
After he penetrated was too late for consent.

Several men have given their opinions on this thread and shown what decent men think.

I don't think anyone has gone through this thread and reported the posts that should have been reported. As I said, I don't think this would have happened with a CSA or even race related thread.

I'm sorry you've had to see things like that, on top of what's happened to you.

You’re understanding perfectly

No, I'm not.

Are you saying that you now, twenty pages later, agree that the op was raped?

And that you've expressed that casually/throw away style in the middle of a paragraph as

"It is, sure"

???????

You’ve just made your response to the OP about our conversation, making reference to things that we’ve discussed and you believe I’ve expressed towards her, which I haven’t.

It’s a real shame that you then moved on a couple of seconds to then return to this debate that at this point you’re having with yourself, repeatedly making the same points.

I did not say, at any point, that the OPs experience wasn’t valid. What I said; and I don’t know why you’ve not read and understood this, is that my personal experience of consent, and understanding of it, differed from what you have been repeatedly shouting at me for what feels like forever.

I don’t know at this stage what your problem is with women not sharing the exact same experiences and understanding as you, or quite why you feel the need to keep returning to the same old broken record.

You’ve got eyes, can read, and seem like the kind of person who has done their fair share of research so clearly have some level of basic intelligence.

I have said, what I have said. We don’t need to keep repeating it because you’re obsessed with making people either agree with you, or say things in the exact way you like. I won’t be dragged into repeating words back at you in a way you prefer.

So either back off, finally, or except that you appear to now live in this circle of you saying “you meant this” and me saying “why don’t you read it.”

This conversation is boring literally everyone at this point, and I keep responding because you keep attacking me.

You don’t agree with me, or with what you’ve decided I think and am. Cool. Go do it quieter.

@TellingFriends I’m so sorry you’re struggling with these feelings, but reassuring that you have a good therapist to talk to. Wishing you strength.

You're well able to articulate yourself and seem intelligent enough also and yet you want us to believe that the first you heard that about the concept of consent used in the correct way was last night at 35 years of age.

Apparently prior to that you believed that if you consent to sex then the person can assume that you're consenting to absolutely every single sex act until they remove consent for that act.
You're lying.
Don't believe you for a single second!

Nope, that’s genuinely what I’ve very clearly said I believe to be the case. You have been reading correctly.

I know I am reading the words that you're writing correctly.

I just don't believe a word of it.

I used to know someone that was almost raped by her male best friend 😢 Something bad happened to her previously. She didn't go into it much, but I gathered that a stranger had tried to abduct her right off the street and she was rescued by the people that she was with.

The 2nd time affected her in a different way, and she grappled with self-blame, which is sad.

It's totally believable that a woman would experience this more than once :(

That’s alright, I’m not asking you to.

But to be clear, my current and all previous partners have assumed all forms of consent unless I’ve verbalised or somehow otherwise made clear that I’m not interested at the point of them attempting it. They have also been able to assume the consent for one thing implies consent for others. Because that’s the basis that I have worked on in my entire “sexual life.”

You don’t have to agree with that, understand it, believe it or like it, but I hope that clears things up.

That's good because I would never for a second believe that!!

And no I don't agree with men just 'assuming consent' because that shits all over the idea of consent. Doesn't matter if you were ok with it.

I agree that some men do feel entitled to do whatever they want with a partners body regardless of whether they have permission or not.

But that's different to agreeing with it in practice, which I don't, because that's not consent.

Some of those partners might find themselves up on assault charges one of these days if they try that with a different partner, and I would hope that if you heard a news story about one of them that you wouldn't feel sorry for him and would instead direct your sympathy towards the woman he harmed because he felt entitled to do whatever he wanted with her body.

Posters who are arguing amongst themselves should be ashamed of themselves doing it on this thread. A woman came for reassurance and support and it's just all this arguing. There's an actual hurting person here. Discuss it on a new thread if you must.

Take care @TellingFriends . You have done nothing wrong and I am sorry you are going through this. Please try the online chat for the rape crisis people.

Such an interesting discussion forum, I came across the below blog which I think links extremely well.

What is Consent: Understanding Consent and the Legal Implications

https://www.eventumlegal.co.uk/what-is-consent-understanding-consent-and-the-legal-implications

But that is exactly my point. Literally nobody is asking you to agree with anything, in any way. Don’t, that’s fair enough.

It’s honestly just shouting into the void at this point, I don’t get what the aim is apart from saying someone’s wrong.

But to be clear, my current and all previous partners have assumed all forms of consent unless I’ve verbalised or somehow otherwise made clear that I’m not interested at the point of them attempting it.

How very fortunate for you then that you are an outlier who sees no difference between vaginal and anal sex.

And how very fortunate indeed that you conveniently have always had the opportunity to move away, push them away, say no, or otherwise indicate no if you didn't want to have anal sex on that occasion before you were penetrated.

Unfortunately the op didn't get that opportunity; being held tight from behind, being sleepy, under the influence of a sedative, and believing her new bf was only intending to have vaginal sex. A reasonable assumption.

(And had a typical shock and freeze response when he penetrated her anally without checking consent.
And was questioning herself over whether it could be a mistake).

She wasn't given the opportunity - which is why explicit consent is crucial, and entirely reasonable to expect.

Especially for potentially painful, potentially damaging penetrative sex in an orifice not evolved for sex, that many women are not interested in having.

Any decent person knows that, implicitly.

Just as the men who've posted on this thread have expressed.

(How very fortunate for you that have also been lucky enough not to have encountered a man who likes to enact violence and degradation as part of his sex life, and who started it - too suddenly and quickly - for you to say no). Unfortunately other women aren't as lucky as you on that front either.

Funny how you keep insisting you're not giving any opinions or commenting on anything, but repeatedly refer to assumed consent in the context of this disturbing and sad scenario.

I don’t get what the aim is apart from saying someone’s wrong

Yes, we're saying you are wrong.

And we're saying it for this op, and in case any other woman affected reads this thread.

Can @HazelPlayer @kkloo and @SleeplessInWherever please knock it off. I agree with two of you. But you’re totally derailing the OPs thread, and repeatedly setting out what happened to her and your respective views on that won’t be helping her. And it’s really annoying for the rest of us.

Go do it quieter.

More quietly.
"Do" is a verb, which means you use an adverb. And the adverb for quiet is quietly.
Your grammar is as good as your understanding of consent.

Having cleared that up ......

Your commands & instructions to other posters on this forum are worthless. They just make you look even worse.

Well yeah. But you’ve said it, haven’t you. I get it, I got it the first time you said you disagree, and the 17th.

My intention is not and has never been to dismiss the OP or make her feel worse, and if that has been the case then she (and only she) has my apologies.

Frankly the vast majority of the rest of you have watched, allowed and often endorsed what I can only describe as a continuous pile on. One person being repeatedly goaded into response by people personally attacking them and wishing them harm. Some quite harmful things said, and LOT of judgement about personal circumstances, upbringing and history.

I made clear quite some time ago I won’t sit and be spoken about or to like shit for expressing an opinion, and a few messages ago now invited @HazelPlayer particularly to message me privately if she wanted to continue her tirade. That wasn’t taken up, rather repeated responses that they knew wouldn’t go unnoticed. Lots of opportunities to either drop it or take it elsewhere missed.

Strange that so many are comfortable watching groups of women continuously attack one other, but don’t like it when they get a response. Funny how respect only works in the direction of people you agree with, isn’t it.

Anyway. I’m off to continue living in a depraved bin. If anyone has any further judgement they’d like to throw my way, you’d categorically be wasting your breath, but take the hint and do it privately.

There's no disagreement that you had a terrible thing happen to you and I'm so sorry. doubt and questioning oneself is a very common reaction. You are not at fault in any way. I am glad you are seeing a therapist.

Completely agree. It's very inappropriate the way this thread has been taken over by people arguing the same point over and over.
Make a new thread.
Have you any consideration for what the OP is going through?

I third this! This arguement has gone on long enough! Agree to disagree folks and stick to supporting the op!