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Original poster

Does anal sex need explicit consent?

691 replies

TellingFriends · 01/09/2024 20:18

2 month relationship.

Man and woman have consensual PIV sex. Is it acceptable for him to have anal sex with her without asking first?

Woman would not have consented if asked beforehand but did not stop him.

Is it fair for him to assume the woman will say no if she doesn't want it?

Woman had never had anal sex before. Woman is also a CSA survivor but he didn't know this.

OP posts:
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5
Divasaurus · 01/09/2024 22:01

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IOSTT · 01/09/2024 22:01

Divasaurus, you need to read up on the law

onthebrink8 · 01/09/2024 22:01

@TellingFriends As a rape survivor myself, do not let this man try to gaslight or manipulate you into thinking it was something else. I'm sorry, but it is quite clearly rape if no consent was given and especially anal sex which needs a lot more communication and discussion beforehand (imho).

EarthSight · 01/09/2024 22:04

I would find it hard to imagine why someone wouldn't discuss it first. Unless the man seriously wants to hurt a woman, how would it be possible for it to be spontaneous??? That area was not built for the purpose, and not built for solid objects to be in. The pain and problems people experience due to constipation show this.

Also, unless you are porn addicted, anal sex is not a normal part of sex nor is it wanted or appreciated by most women, in my opinion.

Divasaurus · 01/09/2024 22:05

TerracottaWorrier · 01/09/2024 22:00

You know only the details the OP has felt able to share and she will not be cross examined. Leave her alone.

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We can only go by what she has said! Which is that they were already having sex, he started anal and she did nothing to stop him. He therefore had no idea that she didn’t want it to take place and cannot be called a rapist.

It’s actually madness that so many are calling me a rape apologist (I am literally anything but) when not only was this not rape but no court of law would deem it as such based on what OP has described.

Greywhippet · 01/09/2024 22:06

TempestTost · 01/09/2024 21:41

In a lot of younger cohorts anal is treated like another part of sex. It's not necessarily separate or more serious, and they wouldn't feel the need to ask for separate clarification any more than if they were going to perform oral sex.

There is an interesting comparison to be made with that, because there was a time when oral sex was much more unusual and to expect it from a partner would be seen as quite entitled, and you wouldn't go and do it without asking either. It's now totally normalized and for a lot of people it's a bigger problem if a partner is uncomfortable with it at all. So much of sexual communication is typically non-verbal.

I think there are a lot of issues around anal sex and it shouldn't be normalized like that, it should probably be discouraged because the health implications can really be rather serious - but it is the case that there are groups where it is. That means a partner isn't necessarily making that assumption because he is trying to be coercive or violent or anything like that.

If he's been a coercive violent kind of guy, well, that likely will be part of it. But the best thing to do in the moment if he isn't normally like that is to say, hey wait, we need to talk about that before we go ahead. His response would tell the tale, and more to the point, he's then stop.

I appreciate freezing is a real phenomena, as is just being too shy to speak up. But being able to verbalize something you don't like during sex is really important for the totally practical reason that not doing so makes you very vulnerable. There can be some effective tools to make it easier for those who struggle with it.

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Yes freezing is a real phenomena. Not for you to ‘appreciate’ or say ‘but’ to. Freezing during a sexual assault is involuntary, it is normal and it is not a failure to vocalise your preferences!!!!!!!

username44416 · 01/09/2024 22:06

Divasaurus · 01/09/2024 21:59

But can you not see that your situation was nothing like the OP’s? You CRIED, he KNEW you were in pain and went ahead anyway. Of course that is rape and I’m so sorry that happened to you. OP did and said nothing and they had already been having sex, so the man would have assumed that she was happy to go ahead. You cannot accuse someone of a terrible crime like rape in the circumstances OP describes.

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I don't understand why you are acting as an apologist for rape.

It's common for people being assaulted to freeze; that means they don't move or say anything. It's a preservation mechanism and quite natural.

The OP is a survivor of sexual assault and it's common for survivors to be unassertive at protecting boundaries.

The perpetrator did not ask for consent or receive consent from the OP. Non consensual sex is rape.

The OP said had he asked, she wouldn't have accepted. Anal sex is often very painful without preparation; it's unlikely someone would want anal sex without lube at the very least.

I wonder what you'd say if the OP had shoved a big dildo up his arse while he was facing away from her. After all; anything goes.

Idontjetwashthefucker · 01/09/2024 22:08

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Take your own advice mate

Divasaurus · 01/09/2024 22:08

IOSTT · 01/09/2024 22:01

Divasaurus, you need to read up on the law

I think you do! No court would convict this man on the basis of what OP has said. Woman (or man) conscious/aware of exactly what was taking place, the word “No” or similar not uttered at any point and no force/violence used. He literally had no reason to believe that the OP wasn’t consenting.

EarthSight · 01/09/2024 22:09

TellingFriends · 01/09/2024 21:20

Sorry if this is TMI but there had been PIV sex beforehand without a condom so things were quite lubricated down there. I guess that is how he managed to do it without warning.

If he's consuming large amounts of porn, that is how a man might think it's normal.

I can imagine it happening in situations where the man doesn't necessarily wish you ill, but your wellbeing or how you feel about it isn't really an important factor for him either. Sort of like being used as tex toy or doll.

Flipsock · 01/09/2024 22:10

Explicit consent is always required.

whathaveiforgotten · 01/09/2024 22:10

@Divasaurus

OP did and said nothing and they had already been having sex, so the man would have assumed that she was happy to go ahead.

Assume that a woman is 'happy to go ahead' with an unplanned sex act that is (as everyone knows whether they've done it or not) very likely to at least hurt, and potentially injure, without preparation, relaxation and cooperation?

username44416 · 01/09/2024 22:10

Divasaurus · 01/09/2024 22:08

I think you do! No court would convict this man on the basis of what OP has said. Woman (or man) conscious/aware of exactly what was taking place, the word “No” or similar not uttered at any point and no force/violence used. He literally had no reason to believe that the OP wasn’t consenting.

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He literally had no reason to believe that the OP wasn’t consenting.

He had no reason to believe that the OP was consenting.

IOSTT · 01/09/2024 22:11

Divasaurus · 01/09/2024 22:08

I think you do! No court would convict this man on the basis of what OP has said. Woman (or man) conscious/aware of exactly what was taking place, the word “No” or similar not uttered at any point and no force/violence used. He literally had no reason to believe that the OP wasn’t consenting.

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He knew she wasn’t consenting, because if he wanted her consent he would have asked for it first. You should really piss off now as you are just being repetitive, annoying, and very unhelpful

EarthSight · 01/09/2024 22:13

OP I'm reading some of the responses, and I just want to say that it's up to you how to regard what happened. You were clearly uncomfortable with it, and it's possible that rather than originating just from the actual event itself, that your feelings are in part due to that event triggering some realisation that this is not someone who you trusted, not someone who you should feel comfortable with in future. That's ok and valid too.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 01/09/2024 22:13

rainydays03 · 01/09/2024 21:32

Yes you absolutely do have a conversation about it first. However, I really don’t believe this is rape. If the man got a bit ahead of himself, a bit carried away in the moment and the woman didn’t say no once the act was happening, i’m not sure this can be classed as rape?

If one gets "a bit carried away" one can always ejaculate in the bed. The only thing that makes someone rape someone because one is a "bit carried away" is selfishness, pride or entitlement. And that applies equally to vaginal sex, where without consent it would be rape. He might conceivably be acquitted by a jury if he managed to convince them he reasonably assumed consent in the exact circumstances the OP mentioned, but he probably should be convicted.

TerracottaWorrier · 01/09/2024 22:13

Do not tell me that men are not aware of their power to injure during sex. Do not tell me that. The non rapists know exactly the responsibility they hold and take measures. Those who harm during sex choose to ignore it in order to use bodies like objects.

We are meant to have got to a place where this is understood to be assault.

whathaveiforgotten · 01/09/2024 22:13

@Divasaurus

I don't know what's more concerning, the idea you have sons you would share this belief with or the idea you have daughters you'd do so with.

I can't fathom what's possibly in it for you to come on a thread where a woman is clearly very upset and tell her, repeatedly, that she didn't respond correctly to an unwanted sex act.

To claim you're 'literally' not a rape apologist is laughable. I hope you aren't in any position to ever contribute to a situation requiring safeguarding of any sort.

Greywhippet · 01/09/2024 22:14

Divasaurus · 01/09/2024 21:59

But can you not see that your situation was nothing like the OP’s? You CRIED, he KNEW you were in pain and went ahead anyway. Of course that is rape and I’m so sorry that happened to you. OP did and said nothing and they had already been having sex, so the man would have assumed that she was happy to go ahead. You cannot accuse someone of a terrible crime like rape in the circumstances OP describes.

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You are wrong on this. I appreciate that a judge or a jury, should the case ever come to court, which most rape cases don’t, may well not convict, as so few rape cases result in conviction. That does not mean that this was not rape. It was sex without consent. That is rape.
Please don’t keep repeating the victim blaming myth that freezing or going mute with shock is somehow not a valid response. Nobody ever knows how they will respond to an SA until they experience one.

Outliers · 01/09/2024 22:14

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Divasaurus · 01/09/2024 22:15

IOSTT · 01/09/2024 22:11

He knew she wasn’t consenting, because if he wanted her consent he would have asked for it first. You should really piss off now as you are just being repetitive, annoying, and very unhelpful

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I’m sure as I am one of the few voices of reason on here (thanks to others who also have critical thinking).

DownThePubWithStevieNicks · 01/09/2024 22:15

This thread, and the one about the DS being accused of sexual assault are a reminder that most women, on here and irl, would be utterly shocked at how many of the men in their life - sons, brothers, husbands, friends, would be jailed if the law was actually applied to their past (and current) sexual behaviour.

It would be like Pitcairn Island but on an unbelievable scale.

These threads also confirm why it would never actually happen, because women on these threads sit on juries and wouldn’t like to ruin a nice young man’s life by holding him accountable.

INeedAnotherName · 01/09/2024 22:17

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Consent to the act was implied by her doing nothing to stop it.
Wrong. So so wrong. I think you will find courts will disagree with you. Having sex for any reason without explicit consent is rape.

That includes anal sex without agreement - rape
Taking off condom mid sex or not putting one on if the woman wants a condom to be used - rape
Sex when woman is under the influence of drink or drugs - rape
Sex where woman has become frozen through fear or other reason - rape
Woman agreeing to sex instead of a beating - rape

I hope you aren't teaching other boys that not saying no equals a yes.

Loseitlikelollo · 01/09/2024 22:17

If someone sticks their fingers or penis where I haven’t consented to ie. In my bum - it’s going to give me instant pain & shock as I’m not ready (and never will be as I don’t do anal).

Assuming I don’t freeze the best I can do in that situation is try and cut the rape/ sexual assault short by “speaking up” but the damage will already have been done.

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