Does anal sex need explicit consent?

[TellingFriends]

2 month relationship.

Man and woman have consensual PIV sex. Is it acceptable for him to have anal sex with her without asking first?

Woman would not have consented if asked beforehand but did not stop him.

Is it fair for him to assume the woman will say no if she doesn't want it?

Woman had never had anal sex before. Woman is also a CSA survivor but he didn't know this.

In a lot of younger cohorts anal is treated like another part of sex. It's not necessarily separate or more serious, and they wouldn't feel the need to ask for separate clarification any more than if they were going to perform oral sex.

There is an interesting comparison to be made with that, because there was a time when oral sex was much more unusual and to expect it from a partner would be seen as quite entitled, and you wouldn't go and do it without asking either. It's now totally normalized and for a lot of people it's a bigger problem if a partner is uncomfortable with it at all. So much of sexual communication is typically non-verbal.

I think there are a lot of issues around anal sex and it shouldn't be normalized like that, it should probably be discouraged because the health implications can really be rather serious - but it is the case that there are groups where it is. That means a partner isn't necessarily making that assumption because he is trying to be coercive or violent or anything like that.

If he's been a coercive violent kind of guy, well, that likely will be part of it. But the best thing to do in the moment if he isn't normally like that is to say, hey wait, we need to talk about that before we go ahead. His response would tell the tale, and more to the point, he's then stop.

I appreciate freezing is a real phenomena, as is just being too shy to speak up. But being able to verbalize something you don't like during sex is really important for the totally practical reason that not doing so makes you very vulnerable. There can be some effective tools to make it easier for those who struggle with it.

Anal sex needs explicit consent. There is no wiggle room as it needs a bit of prep first. You can't just stick it in really. Would you just stick on a strap on and shove it up his arse without him being willing? It's the same thing

Hi OP no i think it iz veey unlikely this would have been an error. Your vag lubricates really well. Ur anus does not. Therefore ur oartner wouod have to aim very specifically and exert force to gain penetration. Consensual anal sex often involves significant lubricant and very slow movement at least initially. No different to a man removing a condom during sex. Its rape.

@TempestTost

What age group are you talking? I'm 37 and it's absolutely not something a guy in his 30's would do without explicit consent to first.

Also prep is usually needed to do it cleanly. A mate of mine didn't prep and that encounter ended in one hell of a poopy mess.

In a lot of younger cohorts anal is treated like another part of sex. It's not necessarily separate or more serious, and they wouldn't feel the need to ask for separate clarification any more than if they were going to perform oral sex.

I don't understand why people are trying to normalise shitty abusive behaviour.

Some young men have watched a lot of porn and make assumptions but it doesn't mean that their behaviour isn't abusive.

Sex needs enthusiastic consent or it's assault. You don't just ram yourself into someone's anus without lube or it can damage you and be very painful.

I understand that young women are being pressured into sex acts they don't want to do and there has been an increase in internal damage. I also understand that kink such as choking is also being normalised. That doesn't mean it's ok.

Consent was implied

No! Consent is never implied. Consent is enthusiastically given or it isn't consent. They were teaching this stuff in secondary school 30 years ago when I was there, how the hell is there anyone on Mumsnet who doesn't understand this fact?

This with bloody jingle bells on!

@username44416 I'm shocked at the posters who think this wasn't rape because the OP didn't verbally say no or struggle and fight. Not every victim fights back many freeze out of fear and if you're a CSA its likely they will freeze because it triggers memories of previous sexual assaults

OP, apart from on here do you have someone to talk to? Without being rude, are you young? I hope you've got some one for support x

Whether you like or do anal or not, having someone force their dick into your arse hole without you asking for it is totally not acceptable and is sex without consent.

Whether you like or do anything once or many times, it doesn't mean it can be forced on you.

When I got anally raped, I'd consented to anal. I had a history of happy anal sex, even once before with this guy. I'd consented, explicitly, to nice anal that didn't hurt. When he fucked me brutally while I cried, that was rape. Doesn't matter how much I like the sex act in theory. It took me a few minutes to be able to speak through the utter pain and shock of what he was doing. During those minutes, I was being raped.

Even if you find the strength to say GET YOUR DUCK OUT OF MY ASS, you've been raped for it to get in there in the first place. Can you apologists not see that?

It's definitely required. There will be occasions in a long term relationship where the routine always tends to involve anal, and it's agreed it's enjoyed by both. In that case the consent might not need to be verbal. But it would still be there physically.

But for a man to just stick it in, no warning, no lube..fucking grim and would probably hurt a lot. That was one of the reasons why it took a long time for me to want anal as the first few times were not consensual.
It shows the man does not want you to get pleasure from the act, they just don't care about your comfort or level of arousal.
It's a big big red flag.

FFS - 99% of women would say no and actively stop it from going any further

You’ve just pulled that “statistic” out of the air.
There’s plenty of women irl and online sharing their experiences of freezing in the moment. Are you seriously saying it’s just 1% of women who have the very common response of freezing?

Even if you find the strength to say GET YOUR DUCK OUT OF MY ASS, you've been raped for it to get in there in the first place. Can you apologists not see that?

Precisely. It’s too late, enthusiastic consent must be gained in advance.

I have known for slip ups to happen where guys accidentally slip in wrong hole.

I have girlfriends share stories of this nature. Usually guy stops and moves to correct entrance once he has been alerted.

If it was intentional then of course this is incredibly inappropriate, and you should consider how to address, i.e. ending relationship and reporting to authorities.

That’s ridiculous! So I need to give permission for my partner to go down on me, or perhaps I should ask first if he wants a BJ in case I traumatise him? You are talking rubbish! I grew up in the ‘90s and was always taught to say “No” when I didn’t want to do something and for that to be respected.

@Unexpectedlysinglemum I am, thank you, yes. I still have to see him because of my child. It's weird. I can compartmentalise it and I think I block loads of stuff out but even if I can be polite to him, I know what he is.

And even though it didn't last sadly, I had a lovely relationship with someone who I felt really safe with and loved sex with him. Even if I never meet anyone else, I am glad I had that after my exh as it showed me that loving and properly consensual sex is possible.

It's perfectly ok to say I don't feel comfortable with you doing this and tell the person to stop. And yes, he should have asked before he proceeded with it.

It is shocking. I'm assuming that the people making excuses have experienced this themselves and didn't realise what it was.

We still have a long way to go to bust myths around rape and assault. We're unfortunately a misogynist society, forever excusing abusive male behaviour.

This.

But can you not see that your situation was nothing like the OP’s? You CRIED, he KNEW you were in pain and went ahead anyway. Of course that is rape and I’m so sorry that happened to you. OP did and said nothing and they had already been having sex, so the man would have assumed that she was happy to go ahead. You cannot accuse someone of a terrible crime like rape in the circumstances OP describes.

You get worse with every fucking post. Rape apologist

Another part of the conversation before anal sex would be about if you would like him to use a condom. I am assuming this didn’t happen either. OP, I hope you get some support from people you trust. I am horrified by the people trying to claim this is not rape. Imagine if it was a female loved one this happened to. He used her body for his own pleasure, without her consent.

You know only the details the OP has felt able to share and she will not be cross examined. Leave her alone.

No

Gently going to correct you, the men in these situations knew what they were doing and were 'testing the waters' to see if they could get away with it.

As much as MN put men down, they aren't a bunch of idiots that don't know which hole is where.

I've always been clear from the outset with partners - anal is a 'no' - forever from me. If they even hope to try anal they need a different partner - and know I would react very badly to them even trying it.

Interestingly no man has ever made 'an accident' with me