Does anal sex need explicit consent?

[TellingFriends]

2 month relationship.

Man and woman have consensual PIV sex. Is it acceptable for him to have anal sex with her without asking first?

Woman would not have consented if asked beforehand but did not stop him.

Is it fair for him to assume the woman will say no if she doesn't want it?

Woman had never had anal sex before. Woman is also a CSA survivor but he didn't know this.

But it is in that lubrication/prep stage

Unfortunately the op wasn't offered a lubrication stage, or "do you want to have anal sex?" stage either.

Except you didn't prove anyone wrong. You only proved you don't know the different between an actual quote, and paraphrasing. You weren't misrepresented at all. On the contrary, you have misrepresented me.

By the way it is COPY and paste. Not cut and paste.

@Divasaurus

You claiming to have thick skin after saying you could sue people for slander (which you can't about written words by the way, you mean libel) on an anonymous forum is... odd.

I thought Fiona Harvey myself.

That's the point I'm making. At no point did the OP agree to anal sex, there was no discussion, no preparation. You don't just assume that someone wants anal sex and penetrate them.

No, it may be genuinely how she feels about it, and she has never had a bad experience. You cannot invalidate her feelings.

You've completely misunderstood my post.

I don't give a flying fuck how she feels about anal sex, I was saying that her assertion that it is always obvious that a man is about to start penetrating your anus and you have the time & opportunity to say no; is total and utter bullshit.

It's also not a default activity that many people expect So why would you think it was even a possibility.

I wouldn't, with any of my partners to date.

Anyone I tried it with discussed it beforehand. There was never any assumption that anal sex would be a standard part of sex for us, ever.

This is recent porn culture combined with a man who doesn't care about consent.

I haven't seen Baby Reindeer yet.

I am duly terrified though, and will keep an eye out for this "slander" case. . .. from an anonymous forum ...... by someone who doesn't know what slander is.

I think, that’s the last of the responses to my comments for now. Unless I’ve missed one.

I’ve said previously no man, ever, has ever asked my verbal consent for anything. I’m not sure what else you’d like me to say on that subject.

I can accept that some people freeze. I’m not one of them. So my lack of consent would be known. You can say it’s after the fact, and the rape would have already happened - that’s not how I see it. Because provided as soon as I said no, that no was acknowledged and acted on, I’m alright with that.

It may be the law too, but I’m not taking the legal framework for sex to bed with me.

To be clear, my current partner HAS done things I don’t like or want “in the moment”. I have made it known at the time that that’s not for me, it’s never happened since. That’s enough for me. I feel adequately respected.

Not asking you to agree, because evidently you don’t, but each to their own.

My best friend was raped about a decade ago. She went on holiday with a group and one of them was an ex boyfriend. He entered her room one night and raped her. She froze, couldn't call out to the rest of her friends, couldn't push him off, just had to wait until he was done.

Because of that history, she's had that same reaction since with other men, in consensual situation. Luckily in both cases it was with men who noticed that her enthusiasm had changed, stopped instantly and checked she was Ok.

I'm really glad that your experiences haven't affected you in the same way (although I'm sure they have in others, and I'm sorry that happened to you)

But from my perspective if I'm with a new partner I don't know their situation. So, I'm careful, as anyone should be with someone new. As I said before, it's not difficult to confirm consent. It's seconds over the course of an hour or so long experience.

For some women, like you it's probably a turn off, and I'd probably get the message pretty damn quick just to get on with it. (Or more likely theyd have got the ick the moment I asked to kiss them!)

But for their sake and mine, I'd rather be over cautious initially.

Lol.

Careful now, you don't want to mess with the wrong person!

@SleeplessInWherever

I can accept that some people freeze. I’m not one of them. So my lack of consent would be known.

Do you not think many people think that until it happens and they do freeze? You don't know how you would react if it happened, even if it happened once and you didn't freeze you don't know if you'd freeze or not if it happened again. Suggesting you know 100% what fear response you would have it all scenarios shows a lack of understanding of the complexity of neurobiological responses.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. The OP has been raped and is looking for advice and reassurance. Why are you telling people about consensual sex with a partner?

I’ve said previously no man, ever, has ever asked my verbal consent for anything. I’m not sure what else you’d like me to say on that subject.

Have you been raped in the ass without lubrication then?

Or if a man initiated anal sex with you without lubrication, were you just lucky enough to realise his intentions and move or say no before he penetrated your ass without consent?

Are you saying it's not possible any other woman would not have realised or had time to say no, unlike you with your psychic abilities and flash-like speed?

See my previous comment about having been sexually assaulted. I have been fearful.

You're right, I don’t know everyone’s neurological response, but I do know my own. The only one I can actually know. I’m not discounting others exist, I’m saying it’s not my experience.

To be honest the OPs post has been completely lost, in my opinion, in a sea of women debating how bad men are and shouting at each other about the law.

no man, ever, has ever asked my verbal consent for anything

No man has ever had anal.sex with me without my verbal consent or clear physical encouragement.

(Physical encouragement not being - having vaginal sex in spoon position, with no discussion of anal sex).

So I guess we move in different circles.

If someone with whom you had not previously negotiated boundaries attempts anal sex, then that is rape. He is certainly reckless as to whether you consented and it sounds like you did not.

The fact that women exist who would be OK with it makes no difference to this.

I hope you have a close friend or relative to turn to.

I’m not getting into the graphic details, however the point I was making re consensual sex with a partner was that there have been times where my consent to something has been withdrawn, with my current partner. After the “event.”

That being respected is enough for me, whether it’s the law or not.

@SleeplessInWherever

I'm very sorry you've been a victim of sexual assault

where my consent to something has been withdrawn,
You have to give consent before you can withdraw it so nothing like the OPs non consensual sex then 🙄

That's nonsense. The argument is between those saying that that particular man undoubtedly raped her and those saying he might just have got lost, poor soul. And illustrating both points of view with the law on rape.

There is little or nothing about men in general on here, though quite a lot on consent in general.

I honestly don’t get what the attitude is for in that last paragraph.

I’m absolutely not willing to give you the gory details of my own personal assault experiences, because frankly that’s none of your business.

Yes I’ve been able to respond in a way to anal sex I don’t want, that made it clear no was the answer. With people whose intention wasn’t to assault me who would do it regardless of if I said no.

I don’t think I’ve ever said, or indicated that other women haven’t had different experiences, or that those experiences aren’t valid.

By the standards of others, all sex I’ve ever had has been non-consensual, because I’ve never felt the need to verbally give it to begin with.

I do however, verbally say when I don’t want something.

And before we get back into that, I have also seen and acknowledged that isn’t the case for everyone.

Just a random observation - did you know that heterosexual anal intercourse was actually a crime in England until 1994 - though perhaps not often prosecuted?

Bloke's perspective: anal sex abso-fcuking-lutely 100% requires separate consent than vaginal sex does - 200% even, and it's mind boggling how anyone could not realise that, but there are people out there who for whatever reason just do not get it.

Sure, it can happen accidently, some positions are more prone to it than others. That's one of those things that can be a real passion killer/moment spoiler for both/all parties - depending on the situation you might have to stop and change the condom, or the bloke's off for a scrub in the bathroom (don't try to hurry that process by using hand sanitiser on the blok... look, just take my word for it, ok?)

It can also happen "accidently", which is bone fcuking stupid. The feel of it, the sensations are entirely different in every way - in that situation it feels as different to the bloke as it does to the woman, there's no way you can mistake one for the other or "not realise". That's just an "excuse", a "cover story", even an attempt at gaslighting for some cunt who decides "eh, fcuk it, I'll just assault this person and act dumb if I get called out for it".

Consent is, or rather can be, a nuanced thing, a very situational thing. Like a long term couple might be comfortable with "unless I or you specifically says 'no' to something, just go for it". They might choreograph everything before hand, or do it the same every time, or talk about it while it's in progress. Or maybe they use non verbal cues to clearly show what they'd like to do or have done to and gauge the other's reaction (Which really is one of the fundamentals isn't it? Like if you're not aware of or getting anything out of the other person's/people's reactions surely you're better off just having a swift Barclays, right?). With someone new it's obviously a different kettle of fish - people of both genders can't just assume that other people will enjoy or a comfortable with giving/receiving the same things they enjoy.

Ultimately though, with M>F anal and consent there's two key points: The first is that if a bloke is not confident, comfortable, and close to say out loud to her one of the million ways to say "I desperately want to fcuk you in the ass" then he has absolutely no business whatsoever even eating that girl's ass, let alone fcuking it. The second would be to fire a "Johnny Rambo Hyper-Realistic 14 inch Pleasure Penetrator with Realistic Throbbing Veins" so far up his ass that it crosses over from "anal sex" and becomes "large intestinal sex" - then ask him to express his views on consent...

And for women under 18 but over sixteen it remained a crime until 2001