Does anal sex need explicit consent?

[TellingFriends]

2 month relationship.

Man and woman have consensual PIV sex. Is it acceptable for him to have anal sex with her without asking first?

Woman would not have consented if asked beforehand but did not stop him.

Is it fair for him to assume the woman will say no if she doesn't want it?

Woman had never had anal sex before. Woman is also a CSA survivor but he didn't know this.

Not all consent is verbal. You seem very fixated on that part. Why?

Mainly because my understanding of other comments have been that men should ask, and receive clear/enthusiastic consent.

But also, if we’re not consenting verbally, and we’re not physically showing we don’t consent either - I’m not really sure how that lack of consent is being made clear.

Explicit consent required whether you’ve known them 1 day or 60 years. Always. For anal and PIV. (and anything sexual for that matter).

You have to positively do something to show you're happy with what is going on - positively cooperate or help. Lying there apathetic or frozen in fear is not consent. It is actually common sense, and rarely ignored except deliberately.

Fair enough. The last post from the OP confirmed somebody else’s assumption that they’d decided to go along with it and see how it goes. So what now.

Should he have asked, or somehow known she was humouring him?

Not all men ask, and I don’t think they should just know.

IME it can happen by accident but both of you will know immediately and he should check you are ok with it. And stop if not.
Otherwise it is not consensual.
Hope you are ok.

Exactly. They don't ask, and yet they don't know.

What now? - They ASK. They get consent. We should not need to be a mind-reader and know they they are suddenly going to aim for the asshole! Men should not be sticking their dicks, fingers, or anything else in a woman's orifice without getting the go-ahead first. I wouldn't stick my fingers/ the goddamn rolling pin up a blokes arse without checking he would like that first, I'd definitely think to ask!

It shouldn't be this difficult. But it is, because seemingly, for a man to think about a woman's comfort this is a stretch to far for them. Their own selfish needs MUST come first 🙄

Specifically for anal sex, specifically she says she had her back to him, and she was passive. And he had not previous to that day had sex with her which would have taught him about her responses and her boundaries. Then I don't think any normal man should have carried on without some verbal or non-verbal response that she was happy with the situation. Just "is that ok?" would have done (assuming a positive answer). Specifically, lack of refusal is not consent. He could not even see her facial expression. A word or gesture of encouragement might have been enough, but we are told she just lay passively

That does seem to be the consensus here that this was rape. I agree he could not reasonably have assumed consent.

It may well have been misjudgement rather than malice, but we really can't know that. It might have been deliberate rape.

For the avoidance of doubt it would equally have been rape if he had initiated PIV sex again in that position and she had reacted similarly and he had not desisted. But some might have had more sympathy for his misjudgment.

It's a bit rich exhorting people not to comment if they "don't know what" they are "talking about" when you have made a few mistakes here yourself:

1. Yes, rape has to do with consent
2. Many victims are not in a "freeze response"
3. Many rapes are not "done with a degree of violence"

Bloke's perspective: anal sex abso-fcuking-lutely 100% requires separate consent than vaginal sex does - 200% even, and it's mind boggling how anyone could not realise that, but there are people out there who for whatever reason just do not get it.

Absolutely @Frogpole and it’s scary how there are women trying to convince the decent male posters on this thread that they are being OTT with consent. Please ignore them and carry on as you have been doing.

But for their sake and mine, I'd rather be over cautious initially.

Indeed. I’ve read some of your posts and it’s clear you’re being appropriately cautious and discerning @VimesandhisCardboardBoots men who are less so -and the women who insist you’re doing too much - are a complete danger to us all.

Bollocks. There is a clear argument that he believed, reasonably, that she was consenting.

On what basis could he reasonably assume she consented to anal penetration?

What case would you make if you were him, or his defence? Without reference to rape myths, like she’s already had sex with him, she was naked, she was in bed with him, she didn’t scream no.

What argument?

No it doesn't. You are not taking into account whether the accused genuinely and reasonably believed consent was given.

Divasaurus was replying to a different comment.

It was deliberate; rape is deliberate. You can't accidentally rape someone.

Rape doesn't happen by accident.

The onus is on the accused to genuinely and reasonably believe consent is given. Not necessarily ask outright for verbal or written consent for a specific act.

Are you serious? Have you ever done anal? You don’t just randomly stick it in with anal. You are messed up.

What is "normal" to you is not necessarily "normal" to another.
Plenty of people have anal sex as a matter of course. It's "normal" to them.

It is possible that the man had a genuine and reasonable belief that she was consenting, given the lack of any remonstrance (which, I know, she is not obliged to do. I understand the "freeze" response).

He had already penetrated her before he could gauge remonstrance. He did so without consent or preparation. Anal sex can be painful and needs lube. Most people in their right minds know that and don't just force their way in.

It is not "normal" to anally penetrate another person without asking.