To be suspicious of DH .. CONT..

[JustMissNobody]

Hi all,
thank you for your replies, hints and tips. I’ve read them all and made notes. I’m doing ok at the moment, a bit anxious about solicitors app shortly. Had loads of work to catch up today, my heads been a bit foggy and not been able to focus fully.
managed to actually get a good nights sleep last night. Got in bed with a glass of wine and started reading your replies and just woke up this morning with my phone next to me. I don’t know what I’ve been running on but whatever it was must have run out last night!
To answer a few ppl we have 3 DD. 1 completely on dads side, 1 on the fence but thinks I’m acting a bit crazy and need to wait till dh is home to talk and if there is OW then agrees its over, 1 totally thinks he’s been an absolute arsehole and his actions are completely indefensible.
I’ve made a list of questions as suggested here and got all my paperwork together.
ive also found out that his family have been concerned about changes in his character for a while and suspicious of his behaviour and been asking him if he’s ok but he’s just been snappy with them and been avoiding them.
so maybe MH related or aware that his actions will disappoint his family breaking up a marriage of all these years for OW?

i agree

she sounds like the product of a difficult childhood

Not a psychologist but understand a lot of this stuff from extensive reading. Has she been the golden child from an early age? Put on a pedestal and idolised? Could do no wrong?

I’ve had a txt from h, he said he knows he should have dealt with it better and he was wrong to just go away like that but he doesn’t want to walk back into an argument when he gets back.

This is textbook manipulation from someone who knows they've done wrong and doesn't have the guts to face up to the consequences. Avoiding you on his return further evidences his attitude towards this. There may not be OW involved, but your marriage is pretty broken.

As I said, I find him really straightforward and genuine and now we're used to each other, I can tell him to shut up, or leave, without offence.

Always like this?

Agreed, I’ve mentioned upthread and on the other thread about this - but I don’t think some people realise she’s a victim too and some are even hinting she’s worse than the husband which is so off base.

Been in positions of advice on such subjects but not a psycologist, what I will say though is that they would need to see DD to make any kind of accurate assessment.

From your descriptions throughout these threads DD seeing a professional might not be a bad idea, it will help her work through her feelings. FWIW it might benefit you and H for a short term to look at what's happening in your relationship and discuss the issues around all of your DC of taking sides and becoming involved in a safe space. I'm mindful that we don't have your Hs side, he is likely to have his reasons for his behaviour however wrong or right they may be but that's just my opinion. You must do what you feel best. The only person who can ever make you happy is you, that goes for everyone..

I left home at 19 and was back briefly on and off from 24-25.

But nowadays it’s very common for people in their late 20s or even early 30s to be moving back to live with their parents.

Some of these people also have great (albeit not well paid) careers that involve a large level of responsibility , close friendships and possibly have been in relationships and have travelled the world solo or with friends. They also do all their laundry, cooking, chip in with regular cleaning etc. There is more than way to be an independent adult.

OPs daughters dreadful behaviour aside, I don’t think being 26 and at home is a red flag in itself (but it’s strange how OP is doing her laundry etc)

It’s very hard to save up for a deposit as a single person nowadays unless you do live with parents. Flat sharing isn’t for everyone, I did it for years out of necessity as I had no family in London and i didn’t like it. And it was still way more expensive than living at home anyway.

I know people who have settled for partners they’re no longer that keen on, just to avoid having to foot the costs of living alone or flatsharing. I’d prefer someone went home to their family instead of doing that.

My single friends from London were all able to afford to buy properties before 30 as a result of moving back in with parents after uni. And paying little to no rent.

If I’d been able to do that I would have too.

His excuses don't matter, do they? Ultimately, you're not a partnership or you'd have discussions about whichever one of you was going away or the impact on the family etc. I'd be devastated by this - and furious.

those bitching about the daughter still living at home at 26, i wonder whether you ever pick up a newspaper or listen to the news

Could have written so much of this myself. Five years ago, I was in a similar situation to you, a long marriage that ended abruptly and left so many questions unanswered - either at the time or since. But I am much happier now, I’ve learnt to accept that what happened brought me to a better place. Two small pieces of advice. Firstly, don’t let him attempt to use his problems to wipe out the hurt he has caused you. My ex weaponised his mental health against me and it nearly broke me. Secondly, if you do divorce, once everything is finalised contact the credit reference agencies - Experian and Equifax are the main ones - and apply for a financial disassociation from him. Otherwise he may still show on your file as an associate and his poor credit history could continue to have an effect on you even after divorce. Good luck

I have young adult DC and they have left home - it can be done.

Even if they were still at home, there would be boundaries and expectations around behaviour.

We’re all a product of our childhood, but at some point we have to stop putting the blame on our parents and start sorting our own shit out. The OP’s DD needs to get to that point, and my hope is that her mother will leave and cut her off (even if only temporarily). The daughter will suddenly have no servant, no cash cow, and no-one to bully. It might actually force her into some introspection, and might start to change how she sees her father. We can only hope.

It can be done, but it very often isn't these days!

I have three adult DC still basically dependant on us for various reasons. The elder two have lived away from home for several years in each case. The eldest is living at home while saving for a house deposit. The second is studying abroad on a course which they've no funding for, so we are paying for everything. The youngest is in uni.

Our street is choc-a-bloc with cars belonging to the adult offspring of my neighbours, who are still living at home.

I never lived FT at home after the age of 18.

I've listened to so many families where another member of that family has become, in various ways and via various people, involved in a primary relationship within the family that has issues and made things worse. Some of these people are victims of abuse within the family dynamic, some think they are victims of abuse because they have other issues, emotional incest (horrible term but it's an issue in some families), or they just downright enjoy drama and playing one person off from the other because they need control over everything all of the time.

It is such a shame that this happens because the people who need to sort out their issues are then also having to cope with another person who isn't being helpful even if that person thinks they are. The reasons they do this are not important here, the important thing is that they are extracted from those positions of power so the couple can sort out what they need to sort out. The people who do this often have to be dragged out of the relationship, it needs the two people who are in the difficult relationship to stay focussed on keeping their issues away from the 3rd person.

At some point the relationship between the OP and her H has to be between them and them alone. Whatever happens next will change their relationship with all their DC either way, there is no stopping that but change need not be scary, just accept there will be some difficulties in changing the power balance in the relationship.

In terms of passwords - make sure that the passwords are not saved in any password manager/autosave/auto fill and I would delete your search history and cookies. I would also make sure you logout of 'all devices' as often you will have a long time ago linked phone/ipad etc and whilst you think your information is private it is visible via other devices.

Even if they do not know your banking passwords etc - I would still change the logins just to be overly cautious.

Yes absolutely, I think we all agree it’s massively unhealthy and the daughter needs to not be in the middle of their relationship.

I don’t think anyone is advocating for the status quo but one thing I would say that, in the long term the reasons for her being the way she is will be important for everyone to figure out , if OP wants to rebuild and maintain a better relationship with her. Tackling the root reasons behind poor behaviour are important to addressing them.

The daughter will need to overcome and even acknowledge that in many ways she’s grown up in a dysfunctional family and take off her rose tinted glasses when she observes her Dads behaviour and start seeing things for what they are, which will obviously be difficult but yes change can be achieved.

@ThePoetsWife my son hasn't lived at home since the week before he turned 18 and is now 26- flat and house shared ever since - and that's in Bristol and London too and just over average earnings. He drives and has a car as well- he's had months where he's been a bit short a week before pay day and I give him cash to get by - but as I didn't pay for him at Uni as he did an apprenticeship straight from school- I would rather help him out whilst he is independent. Unless you live in a pretty cheap area or are on very good money indeed my son says the idea they are all staying at home to save and get their own place is not always the case because of the sheer amounted required- some just like paying their £400 a month rather than £1100 a month with bills.

I think most people understand that this is a problem that isn’t the fault of most 26 year olds. House prices being what they are and pay being the lowest in many years. It’s a deeper societal problem and it makes starting life as an independent (from your parents) adult really hard, if not for some, impossible.

But this has also made us treat our offspring as children for longer in some cases, and made parents feel that they have to provide support for a lot longer than in the past.

Hence 26 is the new 16.
Just the way it is at the moment; but not conducive to self esteem.

We are all products of dysfunctional families, some cope better than others, you can find all sorts of abuses in even the most loving families. Being a person of 26 gives DD no excuse for her role, she had two choices, jump in and create mayhem or allow her parents space and refuse to take sides. There comes a point where what happened when we were children has to be our responsibility, we can choose to allow our past to be our guide and remain stuck in a moment in time when we were anxious or we can choose to take responsibility for the person we are now, it cannot be our parents fault forever. Horrible things happen, we can choose to remain a victim or to be a survivour.

How dare he waltz in and not even greet you? It’s terrible behaviour. He ‘doesn’t want to walk into an argument’!! What about what you might want? What about Basic manners?

He has absolutely no respect or care for you at all.

As for your Dd, well she will always be your Dd.

He does not always have to be your H though.

People who have a lot of stuff given to them get the feeling that value is found in material goods. So she's indicating back this value to you.

However, isnt she basically spending your money on presents for you?

This is one of the fundamental issues with kind and gentle parents. I see my own frinds kids like this all the time. They are disempowered by their lack of drive and having no necessity to earn money. They are unequal, babied, and they feel it, even if they are not overtly concious of it - they lash out accordingly.

Conversely, young people who are independent and can learn from mistakes grow up more quickly, then can feel stronger and more certain in themselves. As they like themselves, they find it easy to like others.

I've been following this thread but haven't commented so far. I am genuinely shocked that he has come home and just sloped off to bed without saying hello like a sulky teenager.

I hope you do still go on your break OP. You sound like you would benefit from some time away from home. If you can bear it I would pop your head in before you go to just say to him that you're away for a couple of days and think you should have a conversation when you're back. Be the adult, don't get drawn into a discussion or an argument. Literally go in with your car keys in hand and say can't stop, need to go.

Then don't let him or your daughter spoil your spa time. Turn your phone off if you have to. You're doing great.

Sending an unmumsnetty hug

She IS her father's daughter?

And I don't know why you let her get away with so much

Not to excuse the dd's behaviour, but I think it's pretty clear what the structural barriers are to independence compared with when most of us here became adults, and also that her behaviour is at least partly an outcome of being recruited to do the dirty work of her dysfunctional father. If he's managed to manipulate OP into not noticing how badly she was being treated for many years, I'm not sure how anyone expected a child of the family to have the emotional maturity to see what he was doing in their relationship.

Seconding the advice to take portable valuables with you when you go today @JustMissNobody now you know that there are debts.

That’s really sad, but I can see how it can happen. Life really changes when parents/GPs die and when children grow up. My life is nothing like it was when my DC were young.