Feel that Dh friendship with woman is destroying our marriage

[gruffalo5]

Dh and I happily married for over 15 years, 3 dc. 2 years ago a woman joins dh workplace and they gradually become very good friends. She has Dh and dc. Last year I asked to borrow his phone for a number and saw her name (he hadn’t mentioned her at that point) to my shame I looked and saw their messages and there were so, so many, day and late into the evening. They weren’t particularly flirty but what hit me like a punch to the stomach was the obvious closeness and fondness they have for each other. Things they were both interested in going to see. My dh and I have always had that great friends kind of relationship as well as being married so I think it especially hurt. I owned up and asked him about it and he was really angry I’d looked and accused me of coercive control when I asked him to reduce the messaging. They see each other at work so why she has to send him photos on a Friday night and of what’s she’s up to at the weekend I don’t really understand.
He has other female friends which I’ve never thought twice about but there’s something about her that feels as though she’s pushing the boundaries and it’s creating such a wedge between us. Admittedly I’ve been very upset and over emotional and it was suggested I go on ADs which has helped me a bit but I still feel really upset as though she’s always there now, in the background. He says I’m destroying the marriage by being like this and nothing is happening with them, they are just mates. Just don’t know what to do, it all just makes me feel very sad and that maybe I’m not enough anymore.

Dhe isn’t the problem. He is. He is loving driving you crazy and showing off to his gf how important he is. Two women competing for him? Its a dream come true. You know how I know? Because he could easily end it.

If he had any respect for you he would try to reassure you. If he is right that you are difficult/crazy then with the amount of care and compassion he is showing you he should be leaving. Since he simply doesn’t seem to care to repair the relationship.

So he’s openly lying to your face about it

So rather than want to reassure you for your sake he’s being combative and treating you like the enemy. He’s openly showing he doesn’t care about you OP. I guess it depends how you’ve tackled this with him. Have you been sad and upset and tried talking about this calmly (easier said, I know!) or have you been angry and aggressive from the outset and swearing etc? I’m not accusing you of anything, or saying he’s right and you’re wrong in any scenario, you have my sympathy bc it sounds like he’s trying to gaslight you.

For whatever reason, she’s turned his head as they say and he seems like he’s viewing it as a them against you situation. Couples counselling would seem to be the answer but he is saying there isn’t a problem and refusing so you can’t make him.

I don’t see there’s a lot you can do now other than leave or see how it plays out. It doesn’t sound like he’s even attempting to hide it now or do anything to care for your feelings - it’s almost like he’s proving a point - or using that as an excuse to maintain out of hours contact. This isn’t how a loving relationship is supposed to work.

I hope it resolves itself for you soon and you have masses of support IRL x

Sorry if I've missed this but is this woman married/partnered up ?

Oh I can see she has.

Do you have her husbands number ?

If you do, I would just send a text to her h's number with your h's number on it, nothing else, from a cheap throwaway mobile number.

Her h can do his own investigating from there.

She clearly is not afraid of upsetting you op and your h has effectively invited her to humiliate and battle against you.
They both know what they are doing, it's cruel.

I would personally detatch, he ain't worth fighting for.
He really isn't a safe person and he's definitely not your friend.

I think this is some of the best advice so far - you need to take a step back and re-focus your anger on your husband, not this other woman. He may well not have been truthful to her about your reaction to their contact, hence why he won't want you to contact her. It might not make a difference if she knew but...it might and that would embarrass him which also says alot.

At the moment you have literally have two choices, accept this is how things are and completely ignore it, or leave. He has shown you clearly what his priorities are, and its not likely to change. Unfortunately the more you, in his words, 'cause an issue' about this, the more it will push him away because in his head it will reconcile whatever lies he's told himself about you being controlling etc. Gaslighting basically.

It may not be an affair in the true sense of the word, but its definitely emotional territory, and you need to ask yourself WHY isn't he showing you the messages and/or doing all he can to reassure you? He's completely caught up in whatever feelings or dopamine rush he's getting from interactions with another person - I've been in this position and its fucking horrible. I also don't necessarily agree that its a privacy issue, he is actively showing you he can't be trusted.

You have to get tough and brave, unless he cuts off contact I would telling him I'm gone - and follow though on it. That's YOUR boundary and you will not accept being treated like this. At the moment he doesn't really have a consequence to his actions.

This is it in a nutshell - 'Showing you them would mean he is showing you something he really knows you are not going to like and put you firmly out of limbo mode and into wtf mode.'

I asked him if he could at least not pick up his phone for a couple of hours in the evenings when we are all together, that we leave them in a basket. I asked if he thinks I am paranoid then why would he spend the evening doing the one thing that upsets me and makes me feel uneasy in my own home. And that I don’t think that’s a kind thing to do. He says he’d had two messages from male friends and nothing at all to do with her - but I don’t know that do I?! I just see him smiling at his phone and typing away.
he has agreed (let’s see how that goes…) but he also asked me in a very pissed off tone what he’s ‘allowed’ to do then?
it makes me feel like I am being unreasonable and controlling but I also don’t get why he would do what he knows makes it worse?

He has lost your trust so he needs to work to build it back up.

I think you’ll find because he’s not that bothered that it upsets you.

You should show him this thread!!!! Tell him all the mams had a meeting!!!! And we all think he's acting like a knobhead!!!!!

@gruffalo5 you will go round and round in circles with this man. Smiling while on his phone sounds so suspect.
It’s not unreasonable for you to ask him to come off his phone when you are having family time or time as a couple. If my dp does this I will ask him to put his phone down. Even the other night we went to bed and he was on his phone when I came out of the bathroom .. I jokingly said on your phone again? He showed me straight away his phone and what’s app as he was sending me links to a theatre show he thought would be nice to go to together. I tend to nag my dp when most of the time he’s researching our holiday or trying to fix the house ect and find the right stuff. But he never treats me the way your H does. He’s making you so sick with nerves. I find it so disgusting! Sorry I know he’s your H but there is no sign of anything relenting with him!

This sounds like a really sensible and reasonable idea (regardless of the issues with the phone, down time away from it so you can spend time together without the distraction is healthy thing to do anyway!) - how willing was he to agree to putting the phone in the basket?

If he’s repeatedly saying you’re controlling, are there other areas of his life he feels he has no control over and / or you do?
How would you describe the power balance in your relationship?
Are there any other areas where either of you stubbornly dig your heels in?
Does he have ‘principles’ in other areas that he sticks to rigidly?

I’m wondering if this is a pattern of behaviour you perhaps haven’t had to challenge or have worked around, but because of the nature of the issue (a potentially cheating spouse) you are not backing down when perhaps you might have in other areas? That could mean it is ‘innocent’ (although I’d say it’s at least an emotional affair so depends on your definition of cheating whether you consider their closeness innocent or not) - but is pointing at a wider issue in your relationship around control/power dynamics?

OW isn’t living in his phone though.

It isn’t about limiting his phone use. He’ll just use it before or after basket time.

Bet he smiles at any old thing on his phone now to wind you up. He’s horrible.

I hope you start calling the shots soon OP. And that isn’t with more rules. That’s when you’ve decided you CBA anymore.

Honestly. I’ve been there. I eventually had to stop trying to control him and instead focus on me. I said to myself ‘what can you do? Nothing. If he wants to send messages and then delete them he will. I can’t police his every move’ so I just stopped. I stopped caring, I stopped asking. I started focussing on me and ignoring him. I did my own thing, I acted bored when he wanted to talk to me. I just zoned him out. It was tough but it was the only way. You have to let this go. The more you push, the more it sounds he’s pushing back. So drop the rope. Let him get on with it. He’s an idiot. And he almost seems to be enjoying this little game.
here’s an idea. Tell him you’ve come round to his way of thinking and you’re really happy he’s spending all his time texting this woman. Tell him to send her a dick pic. Tell him you’ll take it for him. Tell him he’ll need to tell her she’ll need to zoom in or enlarge the pic though if she wants to see it as it’s so little. Laugh an evil laugh and walk away.

I am sorry but your husband is having an emotional affair at this point, and it could very well turn physcial. There is nothing you can do as he has ignored your pleas to stop contact and already picked her.

Maybe its time to think about life without him? how you would afford the house etc? this knowledge gives you power.

@KaleQueen what happened in the end?

He sounds very controlling and dreadful. You are supposed to be first, not her. I cannot imagine my DH putting anyone before me. He would be in the bin. It is so disrespectful and he is gaslighting you. You are worth more than that.

I am guessing he realised he was being a dick, realised what he had, got his head out of his arse of his own accord. And stopped. Things are fine now (ish) but my heart and trust took a battering in the process I’ll not lie.

Agree with Kalequeen the dynamic of you begging him to stop his behaviour has to change. I know it's hard, but disengage like you would with a toddler. Can you go away? Go for a swim or exercise class at night? Go to a movie? Small steps to change this situation... it doesn't have to be dramatic, just make more time for yourself, put your energy into things that make you feel good not this dick and his dumb phone. He will either keep messaging her or realise he's about to lose his marriage and smarten up his act. Right now, he holds all the cards. Even if it does all fall apart at least you would have made steps towards your own independence.

I know this must be really hard...but it sounds like this point, you've said your piece, he knows full well how you feel and whats upsetting to you. I'd stop engaging, stop asking him to not message/not be on the phone. You can't tell if he's messaging her or other people anyway. Focus on yourself. Push him mentally to the side. I wouldn't bother with basket time either...you're seeking reassurance, but you're seeking authentic reassurance. And what this would offer is reluctant and resentful obedience. Where you're 'controlling' and he's put upon.

The only control you have is over yourself. He's been your best freind and focus, but he's messed that up, so he can't be your focus any more. Focus on yourself.

If he's sitting on his phone for hours. Go off out for a walk. Organise a couple of drinks with freinds, get dressed up and go out. Take a gym class. Go to a hobby. Go to a film. Take a bath. Make yourself feel better on your own terms.

I agree with those advising you to drop the rope. Practise a level of detachment. It’s awful that you should have to do this. But that is where your power in this situation lies. And if you don’t take back some power, your marriage is going to carry on like this and perhaps even founder. Get busy with things that don’t involve him. Release him. At the moment, he assumes you’re in it for the duration, utterly dependent on him and hanging on his every word. He takes that for granted. That’s not helpful to you or your marriage.

It may feel like game-playing but actually it’s vital for your mental health and your marriage that he starts to understand that you can enjoy your life without him.

He’s completely dismissing and invalidating you. You don’t owe him anything at this point. He’s not an emotionally safe person for you right now.

I have read most of the thread and all your posts. I'm so very sorry this is happening to you, and your gut is not wrong. This woman, or rather your husbands reaction to her, is a threat to your marriage. I imagine you feel very unvalued at the moment and less important this this woman. This is just wrong.

I agree with the advice to detach. personally I would start seeing a therapist to talk this stuff over with. In the end he will either see sense and come back into your marriage and prioritise his wife, or he wont. If he doesn't, in the end your marriage is over, and you will need support to know that your feelings are valid and your position is enough.

Good luck

Yes this. Do what she said. I was in thr same boat and I fought and fought til i nearly broke me. I said newrly it did I was in the worst state mentally ive ever been in but I'd did no good me going apeshit just have him the excuse he wanted to turn his back on me. I even rang the woman up and screamed down the phone at her. Non of it worked. I should have done what kalequeen did. So take her advice. Focus on yourself. Nurture yourself and if he wants to fuck off with the silly cow then they deserve each other.

He sounds abusive the ways he holding the affair/not-affair over you, goading and bullying you.

It doesn't sound like he cares and respects you, I'm sure your marriage has lots of positive aspects, but he does sound like he doesn't actually love you or see you as a true partner, you are not allowed to take up space in the marriage.

I agree with those advising to stop playing his game, he's clearly enjoying torturing you.
I'd start thinking about a future where you are separated, how would that work? What would that mean in terms of childcare/housing/work etc.
Even if you don't act on it right now I think it would be wise to start mentally preparing for a spilt, I expect if you find out they are having an affair all this preparatory work making out you are 'crazy' will make sense, as you will be to blame for him destroying your family and your marriage,