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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Feel that Dh friendship with woman is destroying our marriage

607 replies

gruffalo5 · 15/08/2024 12:35

Dh and I happily married for over 15 years, 3 dc. 2 years ago a woman joins dh workplace and they gradually become very good friends. She has Dh and dc. Last year I asked to borrow his phone for a number and saw her name (he hadn’t mentioned her at that point) to my shame I looked and saw their messages and there were so, so many, day and late into the evening. They weren’t particularly flirty but what hit me like a punch to the stomach was the obvious closeness and fondness they have for each other. Things they were both interested in going to see. My dh and I have always had that great friends kind of relationship as well as being married so I think it especially hurt. I owned up and asked him about it and he was really angry I’d looked and accused me of coercive control when I asked him to reduce the messaging. They see each other at work so why she has to send him photos on a Friday night and of what’s she’s up to at the weekend I don’t really understand.
He has other female friends which I’ve never thought twice about but there’s something about her that feels as though she’s pushing the boundaries and it’s creating such a wedge between us. Admittedly I’ve been very upset and over emotional and it was suggested I go on ADs which has helped me a bit but I still feel really upset as though she’s always there now, in the background. He says I’m destroying the marriage by being like this and nothing is happening with them, they are just mates. Just don’t know what to do, it all just makes me feel very sad and that maybe I’m not enough anymore.

OP posts:
gruffalo5 · 17/09/2024 15:16

He said that a male colleague messaged him about work too so if that’s fine then it should be for her to do so too.
I don’t really have an answer to that…

OP posts:
DadJoke · 17/09/2024 15:21

gruffalo5 · 17/09/2024 15:15

Although it makes me sad it is reassuring that I’m not the only one who thinks it’s unfair. Feel like I’m going a bit mad sometimes. He says it’s my problem because I’ve created something that isn’t there and he’s completely faithful. And it’s weird to look at each other’s messages.

It's not unfair at all. I have an open phone policy with my DP because I don't write anything that she would find upsetting or disloyal. We don't bother checking but it's nice to know we can. It sounds like the beginning of an emotional affair, and if they were just friends, he would be happy to show you his phone. He will be furious and resentful if you contact OW.

earlysnacktime · 17/09/2024 15:40

It’s the phone equivalent of lots of scantily clad women dancing round him in a bar. So yes great he’s not touching them, he’s not unfaithful— but it’s still a huge nuisance and ruins your evening.

Fwiw we had one of these and after several rows my DP cut it right back, by leaving longer before replying and giving more boring responses. Worked a treat.

gruffalo5 · 17/09/2024 15:45

DadJoke · 17/09/2024 15:21

It's not unfair at all. I have an open phone policy with my DP because I don't write anything that she would find upsetting or disloyal. We don't bother checking but it's nice to know we can. It sounds like the beginning of an emotional affair, and if they were just friends, he would be happy to show you his phone. He will be furious and resentful if you contact OW.

I’ve offered to show him my phone (it’s an open book) but he says he doesn’t want to read my messages and he doesn’t want to be controlled. When I say this makes me more paranoid he says it’s all in my head and I’ve created it. It’s NEVER her fault, always mine

OP posts:
IsawwhatIsaw · 17/09/2024 15:46

gruffalo5 · 17/09/2024 15:15

Although it makes me sad it is reassuring that I’m not the only one who thinks it’s unfair. Feel like I’m going a bit mad sometimes. He says it’s my problem because I’ve created something that isn’t there and he’s completely faithful. And it’s weird to look at each other’s messages.

The point is that he’s already lied to you. Id say this is an emotional affair which he is choosing to prioritise over his family.
he’s gaslighting you and making you ill

rainfallpurevividcat · 17/09/2024 15:51

I can only imagine how he would react if you had a male friend you prioritised over him.

gruffalo5 · 17/09/2024 15:52

I just don’t know what to do. He’s like a stranger to me in a lot of ways now. When I talk about how I feel he says ‘well how do you think I feel??’ and that I’m making him miserable

OP posts:
KaleQueen · 17/09/2024 15:56

gruffalo5 · 17/09/2024 15:16

He said that a male colleague messaged him about work too so if that’s fine then it should be for her to do so too.
I don’t really have an answer to that…

The answer to that is you hadn’t previously seen loads of non work related messages from a male colleague that made you uncomfortable. And he didn’t go out and lie about a male colleague being there.

Psychoticbreak · 17/09/2024 15:59

Calling you controlling instead of acknowledging your pain is gaslighting and would make me distrust him even more. At this point I wouldnt even bother with an ultimatum I would throw him out. Dradful behaviour.

thismummydrinksgin · 17/09/2024 16:08

It's not coercive control it's a boundary within the marriage x

Horsecalledrhubard · 17/09/2024 16:16

Op, he’s gaslighting you. I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him, I’m sorry.

He’s not tried to reassure you because he can’t. He can’t show you his phone because he knows that won’t help, in fact it’ll make it worse. He can’t let you speak to her because that won’t help. He’s probably even struggling to comfort you, because he knows exactly what he’s doing and he knows it’s wrong…but he can’t tell you that.

He has to keep you in the dark as much as possible, and that’s confusing for you and it makes you anxious and it hurts and you don’t understand it and you so badly want to believe him, but there’s that little part of you, your intuition, that tells you something is off. That something changed and that you aren’t being treated as someone’s beloved wife.

IsawwhatIsaw · 17/09/2024 16:18

I think he’s preparing his narrative, his version of events. Do you have good friends and supportive family?

pikkumyy77 · 17/09/2024 16:38

If I told my dh that I didn’t trust him and I was frightened he was leaving me he would go all out to reassure me. Because he loves me and wants to be in a happy marriage where I am happy.

This man is basically telling you that there is nothing wrong so you just have to be unhappy/frightened/estranged because he should never have to change his behavior if it inconveniences him in the slightest.

This relationship is dead in the water. Or it should be. Because he has shown you how little you matter to him.

Bookworm20 · 17/09/2024 16:43

This is sounding worse by the day, so sorry OP.
He won't show you the messages because at the moment you are in that area of limbo where you don't actually know whats going on. Your gut says 'hey wtf', but without proof your head is questioning if your gut can be trusted. He wants to keep you in that limbo mode. By NOT showing you messages (which would clear all this up in a jiffy wouldn't it) you stay in limbo mode. Showing you them would mean he is showing you something he really knows you are not going to like and put you firmly out of limbo mode and into wtf mode.

Telling you not to contact her because 'it would cause issues at work' is his way of saying do not contact her because she has a totally different view of your relationship than the actual reality of your relationship. If he really didn't want to 'cause issues at work' he wouldn't be messaging at the bloody weekend and evenings, he would have proper work boundaries in place. There appear to be no boundaries in place with her at all. Sorry but that suggests she is blissfully unware he is happily married, or that she is the cause of so much anguish with you, the likely scenario is she has been fed crumbs of phrases such as you are inattentive, don't understand him, you've drifted apart, you are more like housemates now, and the good old classic of he can't leave you because you are depressed and on medication and he is thinking of the dc. Giving her the gold old, 'I'm such a poor, lonely, unloved victim, but i'm courageously doing the right thing' speil.

Him telling you that you are paranoid, controlling and lying to you about when hes with her outside of work is also paiting a lovely narrative for when he leaves, as he can recite how you drove him away with your unreasonableness, paranoia and in the end he couldn't take it anymore - even though he was the cause of it because he is being a gaslighting wanker.

It sounds like whatever you do now OP you cannot win. He has already created the groundwork in his head and he will start reciting the script as soon as an inkling of actual evidence is found. Which is will be found. And then he will rewite your entire history as the poor unhappy little man trapped in a marriage with a crazy wife.

I am truly sorry. He could clear all this up in an instant by being open with you, showing you the messages, even saying, yes call her because its important to me for you to be reassured so our marriage is safe. he is doing the opposite of all of those and blaming you for essentially butting into his little world of whatever he thinks is playing out or may potentially play out with this woman.

Just remember that. He has the power to clear this up instantly almost and stop you worrying. Why isn't he doing that? because he can't. he'd rather leave you in limbo mode until such time as he jumps ship or decides this other woman is not for him afterall. What sort of man purposely leaves his wife in that state of unknowingness. All the loving husbands i've come across would walk over hot coals to make sure their wife was happy and unworried.

I think you need to get your ducks in a row. Take the power back. The choice is no longer his.

DadJoke · 17/09/2024 16:47

OP - you could show him this thread.

Fupoffyagrasshole · 17/09/2024 16:58

If your already at the point of wanting to look in his phone and not trusting him with then what’s the point your just going to drive yourself crazy

you can't tell him what he’s allowed do really though can you! So if your not happy then I can’t see how you can move past it as she’ll always be a work colleague even if they aren’t messaging at the weekend he’ll be spending all week with her

you do sound a bit nuts tho suggesting you message her asking to back off -
don’t do that

gruffalo5 · 17/09/2024 16:58

DadJoke · 17/09/2024 16:47

OP - you could show him this thread.

I am tempted to but I think if I did he would leave me.
It would not go down well and I think he would see me posting on here as another crazy thing to do and why listen to people who don’t know the full story.
Thank you all though for your comments, it makes me feel less like the unstable woman and more that I have a valid point.

OP posts:
Horsecalledrhubard · 17/09/2024 17:09

You know, I’d be tempted to message her at her work email or something…

Dear Rosie,
As a wonderful friend of my husband Paul, I’d love to invite you to our wedding anniversary celebrations that I am planning for next (insert month). I want it to be a huge surprise for Paul, so please don’t let on!
It would mean a lot to have you there to celebrate 20 wonderful years together.
I shall send an invitation with time and date on in due course.
Kind regards
Gruffalo5

I realise that this wouldn’t be one of my finest ideas, but I’d just love to mess with things a little bit.

Catoo · 17/09/2024 17:13

gruffalo5 · 17/09/2024 13:46

It’s never her fault though. She’s never to blame. I just don’t understand it, I would never message a married male colleague at the weekend about work when there was no need.

But if you did, hopefully he would ignore you or reply ‘we can discuss on Monday. Have a nice weekend’

Your H isn’t doing this. Because he doesn’t want to.

Catoo · 17/09/2024 17:16

gruffalo5 · 17/09/2024 15:45

I’ve offered to show him my phone (it’s an open book) but he says he doesn’t want to read my messages and he doesn’t want to be controlled. When I say this makes me more paranoid he says it’s all in my head and I’ve created it. It’s NEVER her fault, always mine

He doesn’t need to see your phone OP. He knows you aren’t cheating in any way.

It isn’t her fault. It’s all his fault. Only he owes you anything.

This is why you should not contact her. It is up to him to cool off with her. Don’t lower yourself to begging another woman to back off OP. Get some pride. Take some time away if you can.

gruffalo5 · 17/09/2024 17:17

Catoo · 17/09/2024 17:13

But if you did, hopefully he would ignore you or reply ‘we can discuss on Monday. Have a nice weekend’

Your H isn’t doing this. Because he doesn’t want to.

when I asked him not to reply he just said it’s perfectly normal to reply (or for her to message)
she’s always in the right

OP posts:
Omgblueskys · 17/09/2024 17:19

Bookworm20 · 17/09/2024 16:43

This is sounding worse by the day, so sorry OP.
He won't show you the messages because at the moment you are in that area of limbo where you don't actually know whats going on. Your gut says 'hey wtf', but without proof your head is questioning if your gut can be trusted. He wants to keep you in that limbo mode. By NOT showing you messages (which would clear all this up in a jiffy wouldn't it) you stay in limbo mode. Showing you them would mean he is showing you something he really knows you are not going to like and put you firmly out of limbo mode and into wtf mode.

Telling you not to contact her because 'it would cause issues at work' is his way of saying do not contact her because she has a totally different view of your relationship than the actual reality of your relationship. If he really didn't want to 'cause issues at work' he wouldn't be messaging at the bloody weekend and evenings, he would have proper work boundaries in place. There appear to be no boundaries in place with her at all. Sorry but that suggests she is blissfully unware he is happily married, or that she is the cause of so much anguish with you, the likely scenario is she has been fed crumbs of phrases such as you are inattentive, don't understand him, you've drifted apart, you are more like housemates now, and the good old classic of he can't leave you because you are depressed and on medication and he is thinking of the dc. Giving her the gold old, 'I'm such a poor, lonely, unloved victim, but i'm courageously doing the right thing' speil.

Him telling you that you are paranoid, controlling and lying to you about when hes with her outside of work is also paiting a lovely narrative for when he leaves, as he can recite how you drove him away with your unreasonableness, paranoia and in the end he couldn't take it anymore - even though he was the cause of it because he is being a gaslighting wanker.

It sounds like whatever you do now OP you cannot win. He has already created the groundwork in his head and he will start reciting the script as soon as an inkling of actual evidence is found. Which is will be found. And then he will rewite your entire history as the poor unhappy little man trapped in a marriage with a crazy wife.

I am truly sorry. He could clear all this up in an instant by being open with you, showing you the messages, even saying, yes call her because its important to me for you to be reassured so our marriage is safe. he is doing the opposite of all of those and blaming you for essentially butting into his little world of whatever he thinks is playing out or may potentially play out with this woman.

Just remember that. He has the power to clear this up instantly almost and stop you worrying. Why isn't he doing that? because he can't. he'd rather leave you in limbo mode until such time as he jumps ship or decides this other woman is not for him afterall. What sort of man purposely leaves his wife in that state of unknowingness. All the loving husbands i've come across would walk over hot coals to make sure their wife was happy and unworried.

I think you need to get your ducks in a row. Take the power back. The choice is no longer his.

This ☝️

Crikeyalmighty · 17/09/2024 17:22

@gruffalo5 you aren't the problem , he is- he should be going all out to reassure you , show you messages, and get this person to learn there's a time and a place and basically ignore her during non working hours unless it's urgent and work related. If it's purely he likes the friendship then show you the messages -

Greenphonecase · 17/09/2024 17:24

gruffalo5 · 17/09/2024 15:52

I just don’t know what to do. He’s like a stranger to me in a lot of ways now. When I talk about how I feel he says ‘well how do you think I feel??’ and that I’m making him miserable

Hi @gruffalo5 I was sad to read your update. It so annoys me when they act like the victim and its you thats at fault for making them miserable. They don't see that you wouldn't be ‘making them’ miserable if they stopped doing whatever it is that makes you miserable in the first place.

The messaging is the bit that worries me. For all my DH’s faults he did let me look at his phone. He offered, I never asked. The fact that your husband wont let you see for yourself would upset me tbh, that and his asking to be reminded of the ‘rules’. He sounds like a smug knobhead who needs to feel like he has the upperhand, which means he is in fact trying to control you. I don't really have any advice OP, just empathy because I was in your shoes 18 months or more ago and its so bloody hard some days still. The hurt their sodding egos cause and they cant even acknowledge it or take any bloody responsibility. My DH even admitted he wouldn’t have liked it if the tables were turned, but then continued behaving like work wife was most important person in his life. And they just do not get that their constant lying and secrecy is what hurts us the most and betrays our trust and they will justify it by telling themselves its for our own good.

DadJoke · 17/09/2024 17:25

If it was Keith from Accounts, he'd just hand you his phone.