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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Feel that Dh friendship with woman is destroying our marriage

607 replies

gruffalo5 · 15/08/2024 12:35

Dh and I happily married for over 15 years, 3 dc. 2 years ago a woman joins dh workplace and they gradually become very good friends. She has Dh and dc. Last year I asked to borrow his phone for a number and saw her name (he hadn’t mentioned her at that point) to my shame I looked and saw their messages and there were so, so many, day and late into the evening. They weren’t particularly flirty but what hit me like a punch to the stomach was the obvious closeness and fondness they have for each other. Things they were both interested in going to see. My dh and I have always had that great friends kind of relationship as well as being married so I think it especially hurt. I owned up and asked him about it and he was really angry I’d looked and accused me of coercive control when I asked him to reduce the messaging. They see each other at work so why she has to send him photos on a Friday night and of what’s she’s up to at the weekend I don’t really understand.
He has other female friends which I’ve never thought twice about but there’s something about her that feels as though she’s pushing the boundaries and it’s creating such a wedge between us. Admittedly I’ve been very upset and over emotional and it was suggested I go on ADs which has helped me a bit but I still feel really upset as though she’s always there now, in the background. He says I’m destroying the marriage by being like this and nothing is happening with them, they are just mates. Just don’t know what to do, it all just makes me feel very sad and that maybe I’m not enough anymore.

OP posts:
Dontmesswithmyhead · 16/08/2024 07:22

Bellsandthistle · 16/08/2024 03:29

You know, I’ve seen some posters say there’s an increase of MRAs or people who hate women on here, and I didn’t understand it. I’m starting to see it.
A couple of years ago this post would not have received such gaslighting responses telling OP she is controlling because she is concerned about her husband messaging another woman day and night.

Edited

Absolutely. OP you are not wrong.

solice84 · 16/08/2024 07:28

I disagree with the theory that you wouldn't have an issue if this were a man he was talking to
This amount of secret contact would be suspicious no matter the gender of the 'friend'
I had similar issues with dps female friend who was sending him 100+ messages a day etc
I told him I'd actually be even more suspicious if it was a man as I'd think he was in the closet
But the fact is, he most likely wouldn't be like this with a man would he?
As these intense friendships with opposite sex would generally not happen in same sex friendships when both are heterosexual .

Myfavouriteflowers · 16/08/2024 07:39

C1N1C · 16/08/2024 06:35

I think you have to take gender out of the equation.

You're simply jealous of the attention. He has a colleague that to the best of your knowledge, he isn't seeing without the company of other people. You have no proof whatsoever of anything suspicious going on. If this was you and a female friend, or him and a male friend, there would be zeo issues.

If you have 95% in common with him and he has 5% in common with her and wants to talk about (say) trains with her, even late at night, I wouldn't be too worried. It sounds like the jealousy is doing more damage than she is by a long way!

All he's done is sent platonic messages to her and met her with colleagues for drinks. Those saying you need to spite him, meet others, socialise, get him jealous, and see who he prioritises, those are the manipulators.

Well actually even if it was a man he was spending all his time working with,messaging with - till late at night, socialising with , to the extent OP's DH is then OP would be justified in starting a thread about how her DH was prioritising his intense friendship over his wife and family.
The fact the friend is a woman and there is "connection" and " closeness" , and lying and prioritising her over his wife adds the extra dimension that add up to an emotional affair.

SamW98 · 16/08/2024 07:40

solice84 · 16/08/2024 07:28

I disagree with the theory that you wouldn't have an issue if this were a man he was talking to
This amount of secret contact would be suspicious no matter the gender of the 'friend'
I had similar issues with dps female friend who was sending him 100+ messages a day etc
I told him I'd actually be even more suspicious if it was a man as I'd think he was in the closet
But the fact is, he most likely wouldn't be like this with a man would he?
As these intense friendships with opposite sex would generally not happen in same sex friendships when both are heterosexual .

Agree. As others have said these intense friendships that involve messaging into the night and lying to your partner never involve 55 year old Dave from accounts do they?

Eviebeans · 16/08/2024 07:44

@Bellsandthistle what is an MRA

Arconialiving · 16/08/2024 07:50

Secondstart1001 · 15/08/2024 21:33

I am disgusted with your DH - his friendship with this woman has made you so sad you are on anti depressants and he is still choosing her over you. He is the one breaking up your young family, not you, I would never chose another man over my dp. You and the kids should be the centre of his earth - this is normal but his behavior isn’t. I don’t know what advice to offer you but I am sending you a big hug and solidarity x

This for me too.

Imustgoforarun · 16/08/2024 07:58

Zanatdy · 15/08/2024 21:05

Well the reason it’s got to the point where he’s going on nights out (with other friends too) and not resolving is because he’s constantly being accused of having an affair. If you were accused of that and weren’t are you telling me you’d sit there calmly night after night trying to reassure your wife without getting fed up? The whole reason it’s at this stage is because OP isn’t giving up until her DH drops the friendship, but he’s adamant he won’t, as he feels like he’s got to defend himself now against these accusations. Sorry I’m with him on this one. If OP doesn’t want her marriage to be over then she needs to change tactics as this is one way of destroying the marriage for good. A shame when young DC are involved. I can understand ending a marriage over an affair but over a friendship seems excessive to me.

Show quote history

but he isn’t trying to help his marriage either.marriage and love is about compromise. If I was doing something that really upset my partner AND I wanted my relationship to continue with my partner I would be changing things, and trying to make it better for my partner. I would not be playing silly games like you suggest above.

summer555 · 16/08/2024 08:10

Agree. As others have said these intense friendships that involve messaging into the night and lying to your partner never involve 55 year old Dave from accounts do they?

I'm not Dave, I'm not 55 and I don't work in accounts. But I'm probably the equivalent to my male friend who's 15 years younger than me (I've just turned 50j.

We have a similar friendship to the husband and his friend. We met at a social function and got on really well. Over the years we've gone through spells of texting a lot and my husband never had an issue with it as it's been purely platonic.

I share things with him that I wouldn't share with my female friends, partly as he isn't in our social circle and partly as it's useful to get a male perspective. We've spoken about marital issues, unwanted pregnancies and challenges at work, and plenty of nothingy nonsense. I have a number of good male friends from uni but I probably wouldn't feel comfortable discussing some topics with them.

However, it really depends how your other half feels. I wouldn't expect my partner to dictate who I'm friends with but equally I'd take their views into account if it was upsetting them. It would also be different if we worked together.

Aishah231 · 16/08/2024 08:15

I know it's not the point of your thread OP but it sounds like he's out quite a lot - usually without you. Is that true? That in itself will start eroding your relationship unless you are fine with this and also get some time to yourself. Do you ever get invited out? It sounds like he likes having two separate lives.

WalkingaroundJardine · 16/08/2024 08:22

Bellsandthistle · 16/08/2024 03:29

You know, I’ve seen some posters say there’s an increase of MRAs or people who hate women on here, and I didn’t understand it. I’m starting to see it.
A couple of years ago this post would not have received such gaslighting responses telling OP she is controlling because she is concerned about her husband messaging another woman day and night.

Edited

I agree with this observation too. It’s interesting and quite noticeable. I am not even a long term poster on Mumsnet either.

LaughingElderberry · 16/08/2024 08:29

This has all of the hallmarks of an emotional affair. Perhaps its not his intention to go in that direction, but it's where he's headed.

Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass, lays this out really well. What starts out as a friendship can gradually develop into more, if the person allows their boundaries to be stepped over. Boundaries refers to your marriage/partnership and the emotional closeness and trust you have with your partner.

I would strongly recommend you read the book. In the meantime, I echo the advice to drop the rope. Go quiet, stop asking him about it, focus on yourself and try and get as much time out of the house as possible - exercise, hobbies, socialising.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 16/08/2024 08:59

I think he's putting his friendship with her before the feelings of his own spouse. It's instructive that you're on ADs.

Well, he's been plain with you that he's not going to stop. So at least you know where you stand.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 16/08/2024 09:03

Also the fact he didn't tell you he was meeting her, amongst other lies involving her, speaks volumes.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 16/08/2024 09:07

gruffalo5 · 15/08/2024 13:13

In fairness he said he lied about her being there too that evening as it would have upset me and he didn’t want to do that. He insists it was just a group of mates.
But the fact he lied hits hard.

"I lied because I knew it would upset you, and that you don't trust me/her, but I'm going to do it anyway".

Starlight1979 · 16/08/2024 09:30

gruffalo5 · 15/08/2024 18:11

a week ago I asked him to make an excuse to her about not replying to her texts and he refused as it would be embarrassing for her and upset her as there was nothing going on.

So he would rather upset you than her? Please @gruffalo5 kick this man out. Now.

He is putting another woman's feelings above yours. That is all there is to it.

Starlight1979 · 16/08/2024 09:34

gruffalo5 · 15/08/2024 12:35

Dh and I happily married for over 15 years, 3 dc. 2 years ago a woman joins dh workplace and they gradually become very good friends. She has Dh and dc. Last year I asked to borrow his phone for a number and saw her name (he hadn’t mentioned her at that point) to my shame I looked and saw their messages and there were so, so many, day and late into the evening. They weren’t particularly flirty but what hit me like a punch to the stomach was the obvious closeness and fondness they have for each other. Things they were both interested in going to see. My dh and I have always had that great friends kind of relationship as well as being married so I think it especially hurt. I owned up and asked him about it and he was really angry I’d looked and accused me of coercive control when I asked him to reduce the messaging. They see each other at work so why she has to send him photos on a Friday night and of what’s she’s up to at the weekend I don’t really understand.
He has other female friends which I’ve never thought twice about but there’s something about her that feels as though she’s pushing the boundaries and it’s creating such a wedge between us. Admittedly I’ve been very upset and over emotional and it was suggested I go on ADs which has helped me a bit but I still feel really upset as though she’s always there now, in the background. He says I’m destroying the marriage by being like this and nothing is happening with them, they are just mates. Just don’t know what to do, it all just makes me feel very sad and that maybe I’m not enough anymore.

In fact OP, I would play your "D"H at his own game. I would arrange to meet a friend, get all dressed up and then if and when he asks where you're going, tell him you're going out with a bloke you've met recently at work / the gym / the pub / wherever... Say you've hit it off as "friends" and he asked if you wanted to go for a drink. See how well that goes down.

C1N1C · 16/08/2024 09:45

Myfavouriteflowers · 16/08/2024 07:39

Well actually even if it was a man he was spending all his time working with,messaging with - till late at night, socialising with , to the extent OP's DH is then OP would be justified in starting a thread about how her DH was prioritising his intense friendship over his wife and family.
The fact the friend is a woman and there is "connection" and " closeness" , and lying and prioritising her over his wife adds the extra dimension that add up to an emotional affair.

Show quote history

This is where I think there's a fine line, and I know people will be split on what I'm about to repeat (as I have said it in other threads).

If you KNOW your partner has anxieties, jealousies, concerns, etc, then you're between a rock and a hard place.

If you tell your partner everything... "I'm chatting to 'Clare' right now... nothing special, just Wolverine vs. Deadpool" - i.e. it's a shared interest (innocent), but not something your partner is into... then 10 minutes, an hour, a few hours while you're casually watching a movie with your partner on the couch, is no biggie. You're not going to fancy this person, it is JUST a mutual interest.

The problem is that if you tell your partner, and they have these 'issues', it WILL turn into an argument. You know you have no intent, you know they have no intent, and it is just a friendship... but your honesty WILL result in jealousy and arguments. OP looked through his phone "Things they were both interested in going to see." <--- so similar movie interests.

Now, if he doesn't tell her "he lied about her being there too that evening as it would have upset me", he flips a coin. Telling her WILL result in arguments, but not telling OP (about movie discussions, her being there (justifiably) at work events), will be peaceful. Of course, if OP finds out, "the fact he lied hits hard" - then MN pile on and say hiding it means he's guilty, get your ducks in a row, etc...

He's in a lose-lose. Of course, I appreciate that there's a fine line between hiding because you are doing something, and hiding so as not to face an argument for even talking to a friend... but I think most people would opt for taking the chance.

People do it all the time... the 'lie' to avoid arguments... "you're the best I've ever had", "size doesn't matter", "I haven't been with many", "we're just talking about shoes (when you're actually complaining about your DP)". How many women here have guys that they have friend-zoned still as friends that they still chat to?

I honestly think this is dangerous territory. Don't get me wrong, it could be an emotional affair, but I don't think it is (yet, at least). But if OP keeps giving ultimatums, keeps making a big deal out of it, listens to some of the above about 'making him jealous so he understands', it's going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Spinet · 16/08/2024 09:52

C1N1C · 16/08/2024 09:45

This is where I think there's a fine line, and I know people will be split on what I'm about to repeat (as I have said it in other threads).

If you KNOW your partner has anxieties, jealousies, concerns, etc, then you're between a rock and a hard place.

If you tell your partner everything... "I'm chatting to 'Clare' right now... nothing special, just Wolverine vs. Deadpool" - i.e. it's a shared interest (innocent), but not something your partner is into... then 10 minutes, an hour, a few hours while you're casually watching a movie with your partner on the couch, is no biggie. You're not going to fancy this person, it is JUST a mutual interest.

The problem is that if you tell your partner, and they have these 'issues', it WILL turn into an argument. You know you have no intent, you know they have no intent, and it is just a friendship... but your honesty WILL result in jealousy and arguments. OP looked through his phone "Things they were both interested in going to see." <--- so similar movie interests.

Now, if he doesn't tell her "he lied about her being there too that evening as it would have upset me", he flips a coin. Telling her WILL result in arguments, but not telling OP (about movie discussions, her being there (justifiably) at work events), will be peaceful. Of course, if OP finds out, "the fact he lied hits hard" - then MN pile on and say hiding it means he's guilty, get your ducks in a row, etc...

He's in a lose-lose. Of course, I appreciate that there's a fine line between hiding because you are doing something, and hiding so as not to face an argument for even talking to a friend... but I think most people would opt for taking the chance.

People do it all the time... the 'lie' to avoid arguments... "you're the best I've ever had", "size doesn't matter", "I haven't been with many", "we're just talking about shoes (when you're actually complaining about your DP)". How many women here have guys that they have friend-zoned still as friends that they still chat to?

I honestly think this is dangerous territory. Don't get me wrong, it could be an emotional affair, but I don't think it is (yet, at least). But if OP keeps giving ultimatums, keeps making a big deal out of it, listens to some of the above about 'making him jealous so he understands', it's going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Show quote history

I know what you mean, but what you're describing is an inability to communicate. Taking the chance and lying about things that will cause arguments is exactly the way to ruin a marriage bit by bit. Ignoring your partner's upset and refusing to discuss it because you think it's unreasonable is another way.

At this point it doesn't matter if the guy is having an emotional affair or not - the issue is that his wife feels excluded and stonewalled and he doesn't care enough to do anything about it (or more likely he thinks nothing will happen if he doesn't). This kind of behaviour results in the slow erosion of trust and intimacy, the two things essential for a long term relationship to work.

JTRSOP · 16/08/2024 09:56

How many messages are they exchanging every day?

I’ve had an emotional affair. We were exchanging, at times, 500-600 messages a day between us.

Truthfully, I never gave his wife a second thought, save for when to be careful messaging him and expecting messages in return. I never cared about her; only him and our friendship.

This woman probably doesn’t care about you either. She’s only interested in him. You can bet he’s told her about your objections to their interactions, and it’s not stopped her has it?

Unsurprisingly, my emotional affair turned physical but it stopped soon after.

I’m not saying they are definitely having an emotional affair, but I wanted to explain how it was from the OW’s perspective so you can make your own judgements.

Myfavouriteflowers · 16/08/2024 10:00

C1N1C · 16/08/2024 09:45

This is where I think there's a fine line, and I know people will be split on what I'm about to repeat (as I have said it in other threads).

If you KNOW your partner has anxieties, jealousies, concerns, etc, then you're between a rock and a hard place.

If you tell your partner everything... "I'm chatting to 'Clare' right now... nothing special, just Wolverine vs. Deadpool" - i.e. it's a shared interest (innocent), but not something your partner is into... then 10 minutes, an hour, a few hours while you're casually watching a movie with your partner on the couch, is no biggie. You're not going to fancy this person, it is JUST a mutual interest.

The problem is that if you tell your partner, and they have these 'issues', it WILL turn into an argument. You know you have no intent, you know they have no intent, and it is just a friendship... but your honesty WILL result in jealousy and arguments. OP looked through his phone "Things they were both interested in going to see." <--- so similar movie interests.

Now, if he doesn't tell her "he lied about her being there too that evening as it would have upset me", he flips a coin. Telling her WILL result in arguments, but not telling OP (about movie discussions, her being there (justifiably) at work events), will be peaceful. Of course, if OP finds out, "the fact he lied hits hard" - then MN pile on and say hiding it means he's guilty, get your ducks in a row, etc...

He's in a lose-lose. Of course, I appreciate that there's a fine line between hiding because you are doing something, and hiding so as not to face an argument for even talking to a friend... but I think most people would opt for taking the chance.

People do it all the time... the 'lie' to avoid arguments... "you're the best I've ever had", "size doesn't matter", "I haven't been with many", "we're just talking about shoes (when you're actually complaining about your DP)". How many women here have guys that they have friend-zoned still as friends that they still chat to?

I honestly think this is dangerous territory. Don't get me wrong, it could be an emotional affair, but I don't think it is (yet, at least). But if OP keeps giving ultimatums, keeps making a big deal out of it, listens to some of the above about 'making him jealous so he understands', it's going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Show quote history

OP didn't have anxieties until she discovered this " friendship" with the OW , which he was keeping secret. She has no problem with his other female friends.
She hasn't even asked him to end the " friendship", merely to draw back from it.

I don't accept lying is a normal response to a partner's/ wife's natural concerns. For a relationship to work there has to be openess and honesty. If the natural response is to lie it suggests he is not an honest trustworthy person. If he can't be honest with his wife it suggests there something is going on that needs to be covered up with a lie. He already kept his relationship with this woman a secret for 2 years , which is a lie by omission any way.

Danbury · 16/08/2024 10:13

I agree with @Myfavouriteflowers he's not an honest trustworthy person if the natural response is to lie. Surely nobody in their right mind would keep a genuine friendship a secret from their partner? If it is just a friendship then keeping it a secret looks suspicious. But I think it's more likely they keep it secret because they know there is something to hide. I wouldn't fall for the usual excuse about them knowing it would upset their partner. How do they know that? Can they read their partner's mind? No, it's manipulative and controlling to say that. An honest person would disclose the friendship, giving their partner an opportunity to voice their concerns from the start.

Lampzade · 16/08/2024 10:28

Bellsandthistle · 16/08/2024 03:29

You know, I’ve seen some posters say there’s an increase of MRAs or people who hate women on here, and I didn’t understand it. I’m starting to see it.
A couple of years ago this post would not have received such gaslighting responses telling OP she is controlling because she is concerned about her husband messaging another woman day and night.

Edited

Totally agree
I am actually shocked by the number of posters who have called the Op controlling and mean.

I would be furious if dh had such a close relationship with a female colleague to the point that they were sending messages to each other and meeting up without my knowledge.
To add insult to injury, OP’s dh has the nerve to question her mental health because she understandably has issues with his behaviour.
More red flags than a Communist party parade.
I am not saying that Op should LTB, but personally I couldn’t put up with this. The marriage would be over

Firstthreewords · 16/08/2024 10:35

Hello OP. I was in your position. My DH had a really lovely friend at work. I even met her (and her DH and one of her children). She was very nice to me.
i absolutely accepted that my dh had right to his own friendships etc. Eventually he even told me that had been to the cinema together. I still didn’t question it. But I did get increasingly depressed and anxious - and he became very irritated with me over time. His relationship with her was affecting his relationship with me.
Of course it turned out that they had had long emotional affair followed by 2 year physical one.
he accused me of knowing about it and turning a blind eye!
I wish in hindsight I had questioned his relationship with her and stuck up for my own happiness.
i feel for you OP. It’s a horrible position to be in.

SuncreamAndIceCream · 16/08/2024 10:49

Bellsandthistle · 16/08/2024 03:29

You know, I’ve seen some posters say there’s an increase of MRAs or people who hate women on here, and I didn’t understand it. I’m starting to see it.
A couple of years ago this post would not have received such gaslighting responses telling OP she is controlling because she is concerned about her husband messaging another woman day and night.

Edited

I also agree

The post immediately below yours is a perfect example

Scrollbreadroll · 16/08/2024 10:57

@gruffalo5 Everytime there’s a thread like this there’s always some who claim they wouldn’t be bothered, and that they wouldn’t put up with anyone dictating their friendships. Most of those people are either a) full of shit and absolutely would be bothered if their husband was paying another woman this much attention or b) they themselves are disrespectful in their own relationships. Also, it’s not about dictating friendships it’s about having having that level of respect to each other. If you were saying you didn’t want him to have ANY female friends that’s different, but there is something in your gut that is telling you this particular one isn’t just a normal friendship. I also think the behaviour of your husband is a bit of a red flag. It’s not like this woman has been a long term forever friend yet he would rather put this friendship over your needs. There’s obviously certain behaviour here that is ringing alarms bells for you and it’s not because you want to dictate his friendships, it’s because you feel boundaries are being crossed. If he’s got other female friends you haven’t been bothered then your gut is telling you something with this one. If she’s married why don’t you suggest doing something as a 4? Sometimes meeting the other person can take away any anxieties. However, from what I’ve read, I have a sneaky feeling he wouldn’t want you to meet.

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