Feel that Dh friendship with woman is destroying our marriage

[gruffalo5]

Dh and I happily married for over 15 years, 3 dc. 2 years ago a woman joins dh workplace and they gradually become very good friends. She has Dh and dc. Last year I asked to borrow his phone for a number and saw her name (he hadn’t mentioned her at that point) to my shame I looked and saw their messages and there were so, so many, day and late into the evening. They weren’t particularly flirty but what hit me like a punch to the stomach was the obvious closeness and fondness they have for each other. Things they were both interested in going to see. My dh and I have always had that great friends kind of relationship as well as being married so I think it especially hurt. I owned up and asked him about it and he was really angry I’d looked and accused me of coercive control when I asked him to reduce the messaging. They see each other at work so why she has to send him photos on a Friday night and of what’s she’s up to at the weekend I don’t really understand.
He has other female friends which I’ve never thought twice about but there’s something about her that feels as though she’s pushing the boundaries and it’s creating such a wedge between us. Admittedly I’ve been very upset and over emotional and it was suggested I go on ADs which has helped me a bit but I still feel really upset as though she’s always there now, in the background. He says I’m destroying the marriage by being like this and nothing is happening with them, they are just mates. Just don’t know what to do, it all just makes me feel very sad and that maybe I’m not enough anymore.

I’m not that poster but yes, I would be comfortable with that and I am. My partner and I message our friends whenever we want. I would always choose my autonomy to have whoever I want as as a friend, and talk to them whenever I choose, over any relationship or partner trying to exert control on how I conduct my friendships.

I don’t think this is a “her or me” situation. The husband is choosing his autonomy and the principle of having uncontrolled friendships over the marriage and I agree with him. “Forming a strong bond with another woman” - well yes, friendships are strong bonds and this one is a woman. Platonic bonds can be strong and important as much as romantic ones.

I’ve read all your posts OP and I’m afraid I’m team husband. He’s done nothing wrong (ok, he shouldn’t have lied about her being on a night out but I can see why he did). Even if he did agree to cut down on texting her, what’s the issue with him seeing comedy shows and having drinks in a group?

Do some people genuinely think all other relationships outside their marriage should be perfunctory and surface level and you shouldn’t have any deep bonds with anyone except your partner? Unhealthy and unrealistic, imo.

Or you are valuing the principle of being about to do whatever the hell you like even if it upsets your wife over your relationship with your wife

Well yes, some people do value the principle of autonomy above all else, me included. I wouldn’t remain in a relationship where my partner told me how to conduct friendships or who to be friends with.

This is obviously not how their relationship operated up until this point.

All unions are different.

So he's decided to change the rules of their contract.

Op is entitled to be annoyed, upset and heart snubbed, they were clearly best friends as well as lovers, a team and parents, he has a new best friend now and it wouldn't surprise me if this woman is attractive.

I doubt she's in her sixties and has grandchildren.

Maybe in your relationship which is a much more open relationship with many friends, maybe you would be upset if your partner suddenly stopped wanting to have many friends and just wanted one other friend, a female who you found clearly fancied your partner.

But I doubt that because you're one of the cool brigade, lol.

Have name changed .

Dear OP and anyone in a similar situation - THIS AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR .
Have been there and watched my relationship implode . I am sorry you are being gaslit and I am also shocked that your DH has persuaded you to go on ADs .

You are not " going mad ". Your gut / instinct is shouting out to you that this behaviour is not acceptable . Your DH is prioritising this relationship over you and your family .
As someone has already said they are both getting a dopemine hit every time they message / have contact with each other .

Ignore those that are saying you are jealous / being ridiculous . This is not an innocent platonic friendship between them . There will be some element of attraction between them - whether they kid themselves that they ; have a similar sense of humour , have common interests etc this is just an excuse .

Ask yourself and your DH have you acted jealously about other female "friends " . Ask yourself why is this relationship different , what is making you uncomfortable ?

It is not a platonic friendship if there is a pattern , frequency of messaging that is making you feel uncomfortable .
It is not an innocent few messages between friends of the opposite sex . If he / she are messaging late at night / early in the morning / at family times this is because they are thinking about the other person .

Just because the tone / content of messaging is not sexual or romantic does not mean that it is not an emotional affair .

Just because they may have gone out with others as a work night out - this does not make this interaction completely innocent . They will enjoy any interaction / further connection with each other even if that is in a group setting . In a way they are also perhaps pretending to themselves and others at work that it is all innocent and they are there with others as "mates ".

Emotional affairs are dangerous because they are forming a close emotional connection / bond with someone outside of their marriage . They can also lead to full blown physical affairs .

Get some counselling for you , speak to someone you trust .

How would he feel if you made a new male friend and were messaging him all evening? If this woman has become a good friend, why would he not invite her over with her DH for a meal or a weekend bbq so she can meet his spouse? I don't have male friends that my DH doesn't know and certainly not any who I'm messaging with all the time. I think you're right to be suspicious OP.

the ‘cool’ thing is so tiresome. It’s just misogyny implying a woman is only doing something to appease a man. Ironically usually said by people who like to talk about supporting women.

But who would choose to end their marriage over a casual friendship? Even a warm one? If he would do that the relationship is not casual by definition.

Everyone knows the difference between a platonic friendship and a friendship that starts to replace their primary partnership, if you have been through it.

The people on this thread who have not been intimidated by another woman replacing their affections, are either not too bothered about their partner, up to no good themselves, or are confident up to this point of not being rejected. It is how many partners feel, self assured and totally believing that their partner would never be unfaithful in any sense.

It is why this totally blindsides women and has them confused as feelings of jealousy, confusion and irrationality are not the norm in their relationships.

It can happen to anybody, unfortunately.
No one is immune.

It sounds like you are just really really hurt and everything is just a lie. I think it he had been transparent it probably would have been fine as u mentioned he has female friends and it was never an issue. I found out by chance my husband was fb messaging a work colleague and had arranged to meet up they didn’t as I found out .. he didn’t see an issue at all , my issue was he never mentioned it not a word and I came to the conclusion he was sneaky an odd random message would come in and then I just told him I wanted out I disnt want to be married anymore I was so annoyed as he didn’t take any of my feelings into consideration. We got over it but if I’m perfectly honest it ruined our marriage it really did I don’t feel the same about him I kind of just don’t care that much and go on living my best life . Now we get on really well but it dimmed everything. Men are thick as shite and if he continues the blaming game let him have it . You look after you and if you feel that the marriage is over get all your ducks in a row whether that be saving money , retrain, get a better job put you first that’s what I did. If you feel it’s a bump which I really think in your case it is still put you first and do all of the above wishing you the very very best

Watched a family member go through something similar. She was told for YEARS that she was being irrational and controlling. Surprise surprise it turned into an affair. And he kept lying to her about it. I am not saying this will happen OP but it is very suspicious. Good luck.

He is having an emotional affair in plain sight.
He knows he is in the wrong but wants to continue his relationship with this woman.
It is downright disgusting and disrespectful.

No we wouldn't.

Coercive control is a pattern of repeated behaviour.

Having an issue with one 'friend' because the relationship seems suspicious and asking your partner to tone it down is not coercive control. An ultimatum in that case is fine if you're going to follow through. The alternative would be to just leave and not give your partner a chance to pick you over their 'friendship'.

Everyone brings their own biases and preconceived ideas based on their own experience into these threads, so in the interests of full disclosure here’s mine: my husband had an affair with a work colleague that started almost identically to this, difference is I didn’t find out about it until long after it had become physical.

That said, this is definitely an emotional affair - he’s forming an intense, time consuming attachment to another woman which is so important to him he is unwilling to give it up even though it quite reasonably upsets his wife, and he’s spending time with her outside work and lying about it to his wife. Even if there is no overtly sexual, flirty component to these messages, as someone else said they’re getting little dopamine hits each time they see each others’ name in their inbox, which becomes addictive.

He’ll be re-writing marital history in his head - “Lovely Friend is so nice and understanding, she makes me feel good, there’s nothing wrong with enjoying her messages and wanting to feel good, we’re not doing anything wrong, Gruffalo wants me to give up this friendship, she doesn’t want me to have this nice happy thing in my life, she’s mean and controlling, she doesn’t care about me, not like LovelyFriend…” It’s setting up a me-and-her (“us” 🤮) versus you dynamic.

Emotional affairs don’t need much at all to become physical - just the opportunity to be alone together either by chance or by design and the emotional attachment and idealising of her and “demonising” of you will do the rest.

I see SO many red flags in your situation - both in his “friendship” with this woman and his response to your concerns. Problem is there’s not much you can do if he refuses to change - it really comes down to put up with it or leave. But I agree with pp - stop issuing ultimatums unless you are prepared to follow through. If he knows they’re empty threats he’ll do as he likes, as he is.

You are uncomfortable with the friendship between them. He's doing nothing to help you feel better about it, he's not considering your perspective. He's attacking you and making this a problem about you.

He doesn't sound that great.

And I wonder how cool the dh would be if dw was mirroring the same behaviours with a male colleague?.

Op, I’m really sorry you’re going through this. You have legitimate concerns and I agree, you are being gaslit.

I know that I could ask my husband never to speak to someone again, and if it were between me and them, he’d drop them in a heartbeat. Even his own mother. Not that I’d ever ask him to without very good reason, but just hypothetically.

If he decided that his friendship with a colleague was more important than my feelings and mental health, then I’d know something was very wrong.

My husband has plenty of female friends and colleagues, all of whom are extremely pleasant and enjoyable to be around and none of which have ever set off alarm bells. Because there are boundaries e.g. they would never text into the early hours; messages aren’t hidden; devices aren’t hidden; when and if they are mentioned, it’s in a manner that is appropriate and open. If you feel like something is wrong, it probably is.

You know, I’ve seen some posters say there’s an increase of MRAs or people who hate women on here, and I didn’t understand it. I’m starting to see it.
A couple of years ago this post would not have received such gaslighting responses telling OP she is controlling because she is concerned about her husband messaging another woman day and night.

You are being erratic and controlling. I'd have left you long before now, poor guy has the patience of a Saint.

At some point he won't choose you and it'll be because you've acted this way over a friend of his.

You say you are on anti depressants due to this.

I believe it is an emotional affair. Regardless you need to focus on you and getting yourself in a place where YOU are healthy. This relationship isn’t helping your mental health. It is harming your mental health. No you cannot tell him who to be friends with but you can decide this marriage isn’t the one for you. Any marriage that means you are on ADs isn’t worth being in. It is fine to leave for any reason but being on AD due to his behaviour is more than enough of a reason.

His behaviour is not compatable with what you desire in a marriage. You have talked about it - so it’s time to put yourself first. Assuming it’s a genuine platonic friendship he may find his next girlfriend is not that accepting either.

Go see a solicitor and find out where you stand legally.

@Bellsandthistle

i agree

I wonder how her husband feels about this
does he know what’s going on

I’m really sorry if I’ve missed this but how old are you and your husband and the children

apart from anything else I feel that if there is spare time and money to go out in a young family I would be expecting to be going out as a couple or going out as a family- not to be staying home with the children while he goes out

I think you have to take gender out of the equation.

You're simply jealous of the attention. He has a colleague that to the best of your knowledge, he isn't seeing without the company of other people. You have no proof whatsoever of anything suspicious going on. If this was you and a female friend, or him and a male friend, there would be zeo issues.

If you have 95% in common with him and he has 5% in common with her and wants to talk about (say) trains with her, even late at night, I wouldn't be too worried. It sounds like the jealousy is doing more damage than she is by a long way!

All he's done is sent platonic messages to her and met her with colleagues for drinks. Those saying you need to spite him, meet others, socialise, get him jealous, and see who he prioritises, those are the manipulators.

@gruffalo5, please believe us when we say that he gets it. He is playing you.

This is absolutely an emotional affair. The hallmarks are there: dishonesty, secrecy, frisson, emotional intimacy/reliance, over-frequent contact, and the trampling of your feelings and boundaries. It is your H who is trashing your marriage and family.

He is clearly obsessed with OW, and they can’t get enough of their mutual validation. Just as he is invested in channeling his emotional resources and spending as much time with her as possible, he is equally invested in gaslighting you to protect their illicit relationship and keep you in your lane. He knows very well that he is transgressing, but will never acknowledge that. His agenda is to lie, downplay and manipulate.

I echo @FairyMaclary‘s suggestion that you read Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass. She explains the damage done to a primary relationship when a partner opens a window to a third party that results in confiding, blurred boundaries, and a transfer of focus and energy to the new person.

After 2 years, H and OW are way down that slippery slope and have built an intense connection that is not platonic. Their dynamic is ‘coupley,’ and even though you’ve not yet seen a blatantly flirtatious or sexual element, they are enjoying a buzzy frisson, playfulness, and deep closeness. Besides all the day/night messaging and their interacting at work, I would assume they’re having 1:1 lunches and other meet-ups, and pair up during group outings. Their colleagues will be well aware of what’s happening between them.

@gruffalo5, H has unilaterally changed the marital parameters, and you are not irrational or controlling by expressing your feelings and asserting the boundaries you signed up for. It is disturbing that you are taking ADs to cope with the trauma he is causing, and that he suggested it. Stop listening to his lies and abusive, gaslighting tactics. He is determined to keep OW, but you don’t have to stay with him under such destructive and corrosive circumstances. I wouldn’t. I would drop the rope, gray rock him, and consult with a solicitor to investigate my options.