August 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

@Genuineweddingone

Hope you are ok.

Could your Dad have thought you'd been invited?

Has your Brother implied you've been asked and declined?

@SadMary it's a difficult call to make over something that should be a pleasure to give I know!

I'm in a similar situation. I've not decided on what to do yet.

I loved your last paragraph! 😂

I'm so sorry, it is awful what they've done, you are right to feel so hurt and angry. Especially when you see your child being sad or hurt: children are so vulnerable. I don't know if this will help, but let me tell you that grandparents doesn't have such a structural effect on children: if your child has you to be there, validate him and his feelings, protect him... He is armored for life. Yes he will suffer and be hurt, but he will have you by his side, on his team, and so he'll overcome anything that your parents do.
I think we see ourselves in our children when our parents mistreat them, and we panic (obviously, it's healthy to have that reaction). But we must remember: we are the mothers now, we have them covered, the trauma ends with us.
I hope your son feels better soon, and you too💐

"edibles" posted. Chocs actually but I can't help but grin at the idea of my uptight mother with the other sort! We have to take our moments of humour where we can find them, don't we.

He is under no illusion I can assure you. Dad stays at my brothers place always the night before his flight out of the country and instead of me meeting my dad there even collecting him from my brothers we had to meet him elsewhere instead cos my brother it seems bought his entire road not just his house and doesnt want me to drie on to the road. It is pathetic but people go along with it. Much easier to make me feel like a second rate citizen. Im annoyed today thinking of it but my son will never know what they are like. I wont allow them treat him how they treat me.

Thank you @MsNeis and that is true. I keeo repeating to myself 'It ran in the family till it ran into me'. I wont let them hurt my child the way I have been hurt.

@Genuineweddingone hope you’re ok. Sorry to hear your dad hurt you like this. To be honest, it’s like going through a second bereavement when the parent you thought was on your side reveals themselves to be not who you think they were. I found that hard too x

@Genuineweddingone I love that phrase "it ran in the family until it ran into me"!! I'm going to remember it when I need it!

Hi all. Just read all the updates and thinking of you all. So I went NC on Thursday and I am struggling. I just feel extremely low, didn't want to get out of bed today. I just want to sleep and sleep (not possible with 2 toddlers!)
I feel a ball of anxiety in my stomach constantly. I'm a bag of nerves. I've immersed myself in the daughters of narcissist mothers podcast which has been enlightening but is making me sad. A couple of interesting things that have come up are behaviours such as cleaning your home (my mum always does this and calls it helping) and the idea that noone can ever be sat down. She'd always find things for us to clean and would go on and on about how she never sits down.
How do you all manage traits that you've inherited? I've realised that I'm like this to a lesser extent and also project it onto my dh. I cannot stop doing housework and have had martyr moments over it.

My mother used to do that too and call it helping but it was anything but,. She would empty the dishwasher and put things in obscure places etc. It is all just to tell people they help you. If you were to talk to my mother you would be almost of the opinion shes practically raised my son which could not be further from the truth.

@User543211 Sorry to hear you are struggling, but it's also totally normal. I would just try and find something good you can do for yourself. 5 minutes in the sun, 2 minutes of just sitting and not doing anything, try a new kind of tea. Really small things that may feel like a treat. I would also say to feel your feelings. Let the anxiety etc be, don't push it away, as it means you are processing whatever it is.

In terms of undoing behaviours - with some I really needed therapy because I could not just stop them. With others it was enough to realise I did it too and to just be mortified that I do this and the impact it has on others and I could just stop.

I only had one child as I was so afraid I would have a favourite if i took after my mother. I now know I would never have but that ship has sailed now. I have pretty much taught myself to be the polar opposite of her.

@User543211 I second what @Twatalert says. It’s normal to feel like that initially and pretty hard. Same as when a romantic relationship breaks up. But like a romantic relationship breakup, the further you get from it, you begin to see how wrong it was and the hurt eases. Definitely agree that doing something to distract in the early painful stages is helpful. I had audible(audio books) to listen to and took up knitting projects. Also swimming or walking in nature helped me. Not easy I know with toddlers in your case! Maybe baking, art, adventure walks with the little ones? Hope you feel better soon, but this is normal and yes, accept your feelings, there is nothing wrong with feeling this way, be kind to yourself x

Hello everyone. This is always such an interesting thread.

I went completely no contact with my mother about 3 years ago after a lifetime of having only minimal contact with her and her side of the family.

Changed my email, number (because I was being bombarded by phone calls/messages from her flying monkeys).

When I bought a new house in a different location last year it meant that they no longer know where I live.

Her flying monkeys (her sister and her sister's adult children) are now still stalking me on social media although I made it clear I wanted no contact from them.

I keep blocking them but every time they attempt this it causes me incredible distress.

Just wanted to send some support to everyone who is dealing with toxic and abusive relatives.

The negative impact they had/have on our lives is unbelievable.

Hi all, I’ve just posted in legal matters, but wondering if I should’ve posted in this thread instead. As I imagine many on this thread would be able to offer support. I’ll link the thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/legal_matters/5140320-poa-for-abusive-man-trigger-warning-sa?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Just checking in. There is so much here I relate to here, like the "helping" that isn't, and the body image/weight issues - I have also had a voice in my head (which I realised a long time ago was my mother's) saying horrible things about me or others, it's a repeat of the things she used to say to me as a kid, I hate it and think "that's not me, I don't think that" but it's like a compulsion to have that voice in my head criticising when I don't want it and it's not really me!

@DavesSpareDeckChair yes! I completely relate to what you say too: that bewilderment ("but I really don't think like this, why do I keep thinking this?").

It's almost eery how I could go post by post doing "check, check...". But at the same time I feel like I must be exaggerating or imagining things, and constantly second guess and mistrust my memories... There isn't a terrible story of physical abuse or neglect in my childhood so I always feel bad when I speak about abuse.

Ha, I wish my mother did help. I will never forget when I had major surgery and she came to stay "to help" and basically sat there doing crosswords; at about 2 weeks post surgery I was hoovering around her.

This was partly my fault as I should just have asked her to get the bloody hoover out, but I didn't, and still don't, know how to phrase that without it sounding like "FFS get the bloody hoover out and use it if you're going to sit there!"

I have to laugh at my own situation. Mine would give me tips and instructions on how to use it!

Checking in and sending solidarity to everyone sharing their experiences , thanking you all for sharing experiences as it has been such support for me.

still early days of NC and the pit of anxiety in my tummy has lessened dramatically, the few days after I kept having this immediate sinking feeling that I’ve done the most terrible thing, like because I’ve done this I’ve ruined our relationship forever and imagining them laughing at me for being so ‘dramatic’, sitting with that has been difficult, but it’s more manageable now. My dh and dc are on holiday at the moment and it’s the first time I have not spoken to family re: have a safe trip/send pics etc and it feels okay, the pull of wishing for a family holiday or tales of what is happening at home is allowing me to be present with my family. My birthday was recent too and it a the first time not to receive a happy birthday call/messGe from my mum, again no regrets there and was nice not to have this expectation of something from her only to be disappointed., so far NC is making me feel in control.

Feeling out of control is one of the main reasons we get stressed and anxious, so it's really good that you are feeling in control, @Supamum3 !

@Supamum3 glad you’re coping ok, it can be a bit of a rollercoaster initially. I joined this thread when I realised NC was the only way forward again and this thread with its sharing/support has been like a rock. Makes you feel you’re not alone and there are people out there who understand the utter madness of NM/dysfunctional families etc.

I’ve found this time much easier as I had processed so much during the first 6 years NC, so it’s mostly been dealing with recent issues she caused. I’ve stopped blaming myself for giving them a second chance and instead realised at least it confirmed LC is definitely not an option. I’m very grateful I’ve been able to mostly bounce back emotionally to where I was before and not undo all the good work of the previous 6 years NC. Definitely a complicated process that takes time, but ultimately very much worth it x

Thank you @SadMary @SkylarkDay. In my experience the dysfunction of my family is what took away my control and I’ve always felt helpless, always having to lay down and accept whatever they decide to give me, (or not). Blocking feels like my own way of saying fuck the lot of you!

I can’t help thinking about when this may end, @SkylarkDay when you went NC 6 years ago did you imagine it would last this long?

'@SadMary
Ha, I wish my mother did help. I will never forget when I had major surgery and she came to stay "to help" and basically sat there doing crosswords; at about 2 weeks post surgery I was hoovering around her. '

When I had major surgery my mother did not offer to visit or help. I hired a carer/cleaner for 3 weeks as I could not do anything at home.

I was the one as well to call her from the hospital to tell her that the operation had gone well only to be told that 'she could not really talk because she had to take her car for a MOT testing.

Glad I no longer have contact with her.

I didn’t really think about how long to begin with. I was bullied into taking my mum to one of her many self diagnosed private appointments she books at the local private hospital, (completely attention seeking drama). She then spent the whole appointment ranting loudly about what a disappointment my Dad/her life was including his performance in the bedroom these days, in front of a man in the waiting area. When I got home, I felt totally broken and like an empty husk. Spent the next day crying all day and just spontaneously blocked her. I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown even though I have my own lovely family, home & happy marriage.

It was totally spontaneous and not planned, but I knew if I didn’t do it she’d break me. She’d moved only 10 mins down the road a couple of years earlier and it was a living Hell since then. So I took it one day at a time and as time went by, I felt better, happier, calmer and the fog cleared and I began to see how unnatural everything was and there was another choice. I had no intention of giving them a second chance of LC, but Dad had a stroke in Jan 2020 (which thankfully he’s made a nearly full recovery from despite being 85) and she wrote a letter saying Dad needed me. What a mistake I made then!!!!

Gave them a second chance which lasted 4 years (probably only because we were in lockdown for 2 of them so she couldn’t visit) and then it was a case of desperately trying to control/manage LC. It basically returned to how it was before, even though she lives further away as we had moved (she started booking into a local hotel to me all the time). I ended up sitting in tears again one day!

So that totally confirmed NC is my only option and I’m going LC with siblings this time, as I should have done this last time. To be fair, as mentioned before, I think this suits everyone as it’s easier for them because they’re still in contact with my NM so it reduces their stress too. Maybe things will change when she’s finally gone, maybe not? I’ve come to the conclusion what will be, will be. We’re all damaged. So my advice would be, take things one day at a time, don’t make any snap decisions to renew contact, and be kind to yourself about any feelings you have. You will have days of doubt or guilt but they do ease off as time passes and you start to recover. If you’re having positive benefits already, it might be the way to go. x