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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

August 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

1000 replies

AttilaTheMeerkat · 06/08/2024 13:39

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

Before you continue to YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Mumof3confused · 16/09/2024 07:18

That’s true - i would enjoy it more anyway! I suppose the kids will find out what she’s really like sooner or later.

Happyfarm · 16/09/2024 08:04

@Mumof3confused I find this difficult also. In my case she is the gatekeeper to the entire family. I’m not sure if she actually has control or she has this power to look like she has control. She decides who’s invited to family occasions and she spreads gossip about members who don’t big her up, they are ostracised. The thought of appeasing her makes my skin crawl!

SkylarkDay · 16/09/2024 09:22

@Happyfarm family occasions are the worst. It’s when they have all their little people around to toy with and play off against each other.

So my NM has just been diagnosed with breast cancer again. She had it 15 yrs ago but has been ranting on about it for my whole entire life. It’s her obsession. She’s always been convinced she’d get it, but she also obsessively tries to inflict & project this fear onto my sister and I. I can’s cope with this anymore. Dont get me wrong, I sympathise with her diagnosis but feel numb & indifferent to this news as she’s always behaved like she’s got it anyway. She’s been screaming in my face she’s dying from cancer since I was about 6-7 yrs old. She’s so bad even my enabler dad calls her diagnosis 15 yrs ago her ultimate trump card in any disagreement.

I’m NC with her so not involved in this hysterical drama unfolding but my sister has had a lot of stress from her and my sister is expected to drop everything even though she has her own serious health issues at the moment.

I do feel a little guilty I feel so indifferent to this news but it’s like the boy that cried wolf. She’s not having an operation, just drugs to deal with it this time. Last time it was caught very early and she had an operation and radiotherapy only. I do realise the fear, and share it like most normal people. In fact I had my own cancer scare last year which was thankfully benign and mum was awful towards me. But I also realise probably one in two of us will develop it at some point and its just getting regular checks, medical treatment and hoping its ok. We have no other choice. However in the meantime I want to enjoy life and not live every second in fear of one certain disease. This approach makes my mum absolutely furious, she has serious anger issues.

Feels awful to say, but after this recent diagnosis all I feel is relief I’m NC. Sister did make me laugh though when she said mum had gone into the bone scanning machine and she was hoping it would morph into a wood chipper! Funny but it also shocks me that we can feel this way. Mum has done such an excellent job at killing any love or affection towards her with her cruelty and violence. My sister and I are usually kind people with lots of empathy, we are not usually these cold hard people. So I suppose I feel guilty about that, as I’m a great believer in karma and don’t enjoy being this cold hard unfeeling person. I obviously hope mum’s ok, but feeling so indifferent to such news seems abnormal, strange and very confusing.

Happyfarm · 16/09/2024 09:30

SkylarkDay · 16/09/2024 09:22

@Happyfarm family occasions are the worst. It’s when they have all their little people around to toy with and play off against each other.

So my NM has just been diagnosed with breast cancer again. She had it 15 yrs ago but has been ranting on about it for my whole entire life. It’s her obsession. She’s always been convinced she’d get it, but she also obsessively tries to inflict & project this fear onto my sister and I. I can’s cope with this anymore. Dont get me wrong, I sympathise with her diagnosis but feel numb & indifferent to this news as she’s always behaved like she’s got it anyway. She’s been screaming in my face she’s dying from cancer since I was about 6-7 yrs old. She’s so bad even my enabler dad calls her diagnosis 15 yrs ago her ultimate trump card in any disagreement.

I’m NC with her so not involved in this hysterical drama unfolding but my sister has had a lot of stress from her and my sister is expected to drop everything even though she has her own serious health issues at the moment.

I do feel a little guilty I feel so indifferent to this news but it’s like the boy that cried wolf. She’s not having an operation, just drugs to deal with it this time. Last time it was caught very early and she had an operation and radiotherapy only. I do realise the fear, and share it like most normal people. In fact I had my own cancer scare last year which was thankfully benign and mum was awful towards me. But I also realise probably one in two of us will develop it at some point and its just getting regular checks, medical treatment and hoping its ok. We have no other choice. However in the meantime I want to enjoy life and not live every second in fear of one certain disease. This approach makes my mum absolutely furious, she has serious anger issues.

Feels awful to say, but after this recent diagnosis all I feel is relief I’m NC. Sister did make me laugh though when she said mum had gone into the bone scanning machine and she was hoping it would morph into a wood chipper! Funny but it also shocks me that we can feel this way. Mum has done such an excellent job at killing any love or affection towards her with her cruelty and violence. My sister and I are usually kind people with lots of empathy, we are not usually these cold hard people. So I suppose I feel guilty about that, as I’m a great believer in karma and don’t enjoy being this cold hard unfeeling person. I obviously hope mum’s ok, but feeling so indifferent to such news seems abnormal, strange and very confusing.

This sounds so awful. The feeling of guilt of not really caring makes us feel awful but it’s in reaction to often decades of their behaviour. My mum has M.S. I had a nervous disorder growing up because of how she dealt with her diagnosis. She used to tell me how she would die and how stress triggered the illness. I was terrified of making waves growing up, it stunted me emotionally. I don’t think she did it intentionally as I’m sure she was scared. I remember many an evening crying sat outside her bedroom door. The fact she is using it against you now maliciously is disgusting. My own mum doesn’t used it against us but we are very aware that worry makes her ill so we don’t turn to her for anything.

PlumHedgehog · 16/09/2024 15:10

Hi all. I've posted on this thread before, though not for several months now, and I'm back under a new username.

Situation in a nutshell: was estranged from father from late teens until he died. Zero contact. Estrangement was my choice, I had no regrets at any point, and it was the best decision I ever made. Pretty sure he had grandiose NPD. He was also violent. Just an awful human being. I'm still in contact with my mother, but through my twenties, once I had my own kids, I found it increasingly difficult. She's not narcissistic, I don't think, but very self-absorbed and selfish. We were low contact for almost 20 years because she remarried and moved away. This worked for me because it naturally put boundaries in place. However. She's now widowed, so on her own. I have sympathy for her situation. But I'm struggling. She failed as a mother. She parentified me for years and seems confused as to why this can't continue now. I don't like her, I don't want to spend time with her, I'm chronically ill and it's triggered by stress (I've had several operations and I take multiple medications to try and control it).

I know it sounds ridiculous, but I can't cope with the constant bloody text messages. It's gone from having to deal with her a couple of times a year with nothing in between, to multiple messages a day. I know she's alone. I know she's bored. But every time I see a message on my phone I just want to burst into tears. I'm having therapy at the moment (CBT/EMDR) to try and reduce the physical response I have to contact with her, to try and make it easier to cope with. But how do you set boundaries with someone who can't see them and who doesn't seem to notice that you want them? I don't want a clear and final break of contact or a big fight, I just want her to leave me in peace. Argh.

Twatalert · 16/09/2024 15:44

@PlumHedgehog This reaction to messages from her sounds all too familiar. You expect a lot from yourself by trying to reduce your reaction to her messages. You are reacting to past abuse and you don't feel safe around her.

Personally, I don't think one can heal like that whilst still being exposed to the abuser, even if she isn't abusing you right now ( I don't know that). You won't have space to make new, different experiences if your nervous system has to put up with this every day or so. It might hinder progress being in contact with her that often whilst your brain and body want to heal and learn different ways.

You don't ever have to learn to deal with her or her messages. She abused you and it all still lives in your body. Id remove myself from the trigger rather than trying to perform a miracle. She's making you responsible for her wellbeing again and it isn't your responsibility.

OliveBlue · 16/09/2024 20:10

It's been a while but I'm back here. Narc mother is threatening court ...

Have had NC with NM for the last 4-5 months ish, by my choice but it was started by her ignoring me following some form of narc episode.. (I honestly lose track of what exactly happened, but it was probably "my fault")

This has been happening my entire life. It's a standard cycle. However this time I feel ready to go permanently NC.

Mostly as our children are getting to an age where they'll easily forget her now, and won't ask about her - she's been mentioned once by older child, but if I continue their relationship now, they'll form relationships that will be more difficult to break, and this equates to them potentially being dragged into her narc behaviours. So I decided to take the opportunity of her ignoring me, to block her finally and draw a line under things.

My parents are divorced and have been since I was a child, however she somehow still gets her claws into my dad. Phone calls asking questions etc. playing the victim. Can't get my dad to listen to me and not speak to her...

However the latest is that she's threatening court, I've had a mediation company in touch making this threat if I don't take part... saying she's going to take me to court.

Has anyone experienced this? Where do I stand?

I have no intention of taking part in meditation, nor do I want anything to do with her and this just makes me more angry about her behaviour. However this move has rocked me.. so hence I'm here, and glad the thread still exists, it's been a while.

flapjackfairy · 16/09/2024 20:54

OliveBlue · 16/09/2024 20:10

It's been a while but I'm back here. Narc mother is threatening court ...

Have had NC with NM for the last 4-5 months ish, by my choice but it was started by her ignoring me following some form of narc episode.. (I honestly lose track of what exactly happened, but it was probably "my fault")

This has been happening my entire life. It's a standard cycle. However this time I feel ready to go permanently NC.

Mostly as our children are getting to an age where they'll easily forget her now, and won't ask about her - she's been mentioned once by older child, but if I continue their relationship now, they'll form relationships that will be more difficult to break, and this equates to them potentially being dragged into her narc behaviours. So I decided to take the opportunity of her ignoring me, to block her finally and draw a line under things.

My parents are divorced and have been since I was a child, however she somehow still gets her claws into my dad. Phone calls asking questions etc. playing the victim. Can't get my dad to listen to me and not speak to her...

However the latest is that she's threatening court, I've had a mediation company in touch making this threat if I don't take part... saying she's going to take me to court.

Has anyone experienced this? Where do I stand?

I have no intention of taking part in meditation, nor do I want anything to do with her and this just makes me more angry about her behaviour. However this move has rocked me.. so hence I'm here, and glad the thread still exists, it's been a while.

Well what is she taking you to court for ? If its to see the kids then she hasn't got a leg to stand on. She is just sabre rattling trying to scare you into submission. Ignore completely and block all contact from her or any agencies she uses to bully you. Hell even block your father if that's what it takes. These people are bloody nuts !

User543211 · 16/09/2024 21:44

Very sorry to read of the experiences of entering into abusive relationships after the shit our mothers put us through. My sister (scapegoat) has had the same experience and now she's with a calm partner she can't believe how easily she was drawn in. I was v lucky in that I also fell for the first man to show me any real interest when I was 18, but thankfully for me he is the most kind, calm, laid back person and he's never so much at cursed when he stubs his toe. He's been my rock for the last 15 years.
Today my flying monkey brother has messaged me to say he's concerned DM might 'do something stupid', and has told me that I have no idea what abuse is (I haven't actually said to him or her that I have been abused) and that it's disgusting that I'm using my kids against her (I denied a request through him for her to see the kids on the weekend). Honestly I know it shouldn't surprise me after reading all the books but I'm so shocked. He's a scapegoat too and has arguably had it worse than me but he only sees her every few weeks. She has nothing nice to say about him or his family when I see her but he pleads 'but she's your mother'. I feel so let down and hurt that he cannot understand my view or at least understand that our experiences have been very different. I've been her emotional crutch for years and she's pushed me and pushed me until I've snapped and now they're all surprised about it?! Really don't know where to go from here. The self harm threats are on my mind. It's not beyond her. He has asked how I will forgive myself if something happens (no need as it's not my fault is what I want to tell him). What a shit show.

OliveBlue · 16/09/2024 22:18

@flapjackfairy thank you - yes, it's to do with not seeing the children.. You're right, it is just another tactic. Just one I've not seen before.

Thank you for the reassurance!

Mumof3confused · 16/09/2024 22:46

So all your NMs go through cycles of not speaking to you after something you’ve supposedly done? I find this the most baffling of all the things my mum does. This time she’s apparently stopped eating and has been crying uncontrollably for weeks whilst telling my dad it’s partly his fault for not ‘telling me off’. Neither of us have any idea what I’ve done wrong. This will go on for some months, until she changes her mind and we are then all supposed to act like it never happened and never ask any questions about it.

SamAndAnnie · 16/09/2024 23:49

plumhedgehog why don't you want NC, given the alternative is this? You do realise you can't have what you do want, her to behave like a normal person and respect you?

The closest you'll get to low contact with her will be to get a new phone and new number and don't give it to her. Only switch the old one on when you're in a position to face dealing with her.

IME there's no amount of therapy going to enable you to cope if that's your reaction when she texts and she's texting several times a day.

You've got to pick her social needs, which she can sort out by other means or your health needs to remain low stress, which can only be sorted by not having contact with her. Please pick you.

User phone the police to do a welfare check so you can put it out if your mind that you've done what you can. Go NC with FM brother as well as NM.

Whoever asked about abusive relationship/bad bosses etc following on from N parents, yes to that for me too. Easy pickings, as someone said. Primed already to put up with abuse and unfair treatment. No idea we're supposed to walk away.

Olive blue if it makes you feel safer ling term I'd disappear. Move away and don't tell her where. Private on the electoral roll. No forwarding address left with anyone. New jobs. New schools. New lives basically without her in it or anyone who sympathises with her. She's full of hot air but it's unpleasant to deal with and if the stress is there in the back of your mind I'd prefer it wasn't, if it was me. Can't take you to court if she can't find you.

I got what I think is meant to be a punishment message, out of the blue. No idea what I'm being punished for. Sort of "I don't know XYZ but I wouldn't do ABC even if I did" type of thing. I couldn't care less whether ABC occurs and never have, but I know it's thought I do care because I've never voiced that opinion or refused ABC because it's harmless and going along with it makes for an easier life. I've mostly moved past rage at text messages and am mostly at total indifference but I've mentally noted it and added it to the list of misdemeanours. I haven't replied this time. I'm operating a policy of only responding where a response is both necessary and is beneficial to me. I feel I'm reaching a point where one day I'll simply never reply again to anything.

Happyfarm · 17/09/2024 06:33

I’ve got some exciting plans I really want to get started. Something I used to be into before my abusive marriage but after a few years with him depression took the joy out of me and haven’t done it in what 12 years or so. I would like to start a little business doing it. I suffer with chronic fatigue syndrome so I thought it would be less challenging, it’s artistic and I’ve a masters in textiles so I really want to start. The thing is I have this mental block when I look to start the ball rolling, even just turning on my computer. “I’m not good enough”, “no one will buy any of my things”, “it’s a stupid idea”. My ex said that my hobby was stupid became it didn’t bring in enough money so what was the point. I also know that one step at time is the way but it’s taking that step. Has this happened to anyone else. They just struggle to be the person they were and go back to the things that used to be their world?

Why do we get so hyper focused on this small little world when the world is massive. So many people out there who love us and potential other people who would but we stuck focused on the bloody ones who don’t. Is love so encouraging as I really want to to start this little business.

Shortbread49 · 17/09/2024 06:41

Mumof3 yes the silent treatment I knew what it was by the age of 11 when I was a teen it was a weekly thing. Get ignored for a week then she would be all sweetness and light like nothing ever happened it was awful to live there . I left home as soon as I could to get away from her neither her of my dad ever seemed to realise it was a problem. I used to save my pocket money to buy her presents in the hope she would be pleased and start speaking to me (note she never did this to my preferred brothers only me ). She is now late 70s and the current one has lasted 2.5 years and I have left her to it as I no longer care x

OliveBlue · 17/09/2024 07:04

@SamAndAnnie

Thank you. Unfortunately we are just not in a position to move away. It would be so much easier if we could. However yes she is full of hot air, it's just tiring.

@Shortbread49 this silent treatment thing is so relatable from childhood. Although my mum walked out from our family fairly early days I never chose to go to live with her as even at an early age I knew how difficult she was to live with. Good for you that you've had 2.5 years of not speaking though. Must be easier.

@Happyfarm - the nature of the human condition is to look for the negatives. It's the way we are wired for survival, so don't beat yourself up about having these worries. Your business sounds like a brilliant way to get a bit of yourself back, or rather, move to the next chapter of you. You've been through a lot from the sound of it, maybe you won't necessarily be the old you, but a new version - with more strength and now the freedom to start your little business. Go for it.

Happyfarm · 17/09/2024 07:13

@OliveBlue it used to be my whole life. All I did was design all day and all night. Then it just completely stopped. People keep telling me what a wasted talent I have and to go back to it. I really would like to but I am just not the same person. That person was very calm and naive with a wild imagination. I feel like this has been taken out of me. The world isn’t what I thought it was back then and it seems to effect my imagination. Hobbies are pointless and a waste of time when you could be earning money for us….thats the voice from my ex husband in my head.

PlumHedgehog · 17/09/2024 07:14

@samandannie I think really it's because I feel that she hasn't done anything specifically bad enough to warrant it. If she does then I will. The problem is that every interaction is loaded with all the previous shit, and there's a lot of it. On the flip side she doesn't live anywhere near me so contact otherwise is minimal. I generally grey rock and keep things trivial, and I have messages set up so I only see hers if I go in and check, and I decide when I want to do that. Don't answer calls. Last week I was stupid, forgot my own rules, mentioned something not trivial, and she made it all about her and I was really upset by it. That's on me. My big fear, I think, is that she assumed she could use me to fill the emotional support gap. But I'm not available any more. I've got no contact with any other family. Father's family cut me off after th divorce, and I never knew any of my mother's family (father didn't allow it) and post divorce my mother was so wrapped up in her new relationship that introductions never happened.

PlumHedgehog · 17/09/2024 07:20

User543211 · 16/09/2024 21:44

Very sorry to read of the experiences of entering into abusive relationships after the shit our mothers put us through. My sister (scapegoat) has had the same experience and now she's with a calm partner she can't believe how easily she was drawn in. I was v lucky in that I also fell for the first man to show me any real interest when I was 18, but thankfully for me he is the most kind, calm, laid back person and he's never so much at cursed when he stubs his toe. He's been my rock for the last 15 years.
Today my flying monkey brother has messaged me to say he's concerned DM might 'do something stupid', and has told me that I have no idea what abuse is (I haven't actually said to him or her that I have been abused) and that it's disgusting that I'm using my kids against her (I denied a request through him for her to see the kids on the weekend). Honestly I know it shouldn't surprise me after reading all the books but I'm so shocked. He's a scapegoat too and has arguably had it worse than me but he only sees her every few weeks. She has nothing nice to say about him or his family when I see her but he pleads 'but she's your mother'. I feel so let down and hurt that he cannot understand my view or at least understand that our experiences have been very different. I've been her emotional crutch for years and she's pushed me and pushed me until I've snapped and now they're all surprised about it?! Really don't know where to go from here. The self harm threats are on my mind. It's not beyond her. He has asked how I will forgive myself if something happens (no need as it's not my fault is what I want to tell him). What a shit show.

Is it possible to have convo with your brother and make it clear that you won't discuss your relationship with your mother with him? He can feel how he likes about her, that's his business, but he is not to bully you over what you do. I also wonder if the comments he's making are his words or hers. It's classic flying monkey.

It may be also that what he's really angry about is that when you put boundaries in place he gets crap from her about it so he wants you to stop to make his life easier.

Dealing with a narcissist is crazy making.

User543211 · 17/09/2024 08:12

@PlumHedgehog thank you so much. I'm sure it's because he's now getting the brunt of her extremes. Funny how much he is wants me to 'fix everything' even though I told him she has driven me to depression and self harm over the years.
He was so understanding when I saw him last week and now this sudden change. He's so emotionally unaware and actually thinks he deserves the abuse she gave him as a teen, including sending him away to live with a relative he barely knew.
He said to me, when mum annoys me I just tell her f-off and we have a massive argument then after a few days it all calms down (he apologises) so why can't I do the same. Yes what a lovely relationship 🙄
@Happyfarm that sounds amazing. Ride the wave while you're excited, you won't look back!

PlumHedgehog · 17/09/2024 08:33

@User543211 that sounds like a nightmare. I'm so sorry you're dealing with that. I guess people have to get there in their own time. To actually take a step back and look at your situation and see the abuse and accept that you're being abused can be so difficult. I found with my situation that I knew quite young that it was weird and I didn't like it and that I had a plan to escape as an adult, but I was in my 30's before I could attach the abuse label to it (and look back and acknowledge that I was an abused child). I have got siblings but I'm not in touch with any of them (no big fallout or anything just a big age gap and no real relationship ever developed).

Twatalert · 17/09/2024 08:59

@Happyfarm you do sound excited when you talk about your skill/hobby. The not getting started, not trying it, taking the first step is very familiar. Somehow therapy has helped me with it.

I always had this overwhelming dread in me before doing anything. So I only did the things I had to like work, and I wouldn't try new things or do what I wanted to do. I think it's because I was criticised so much as a child and also micromanaged at the same time. Then other times I was supposed to have super powers and read my mother's mind. Make sense of it. So in my mind anything I did was wrong. I felt paralysed for decades and could not start anything.

Then I realised not everyone is like my mother, watching my every move and either getting angry if things don't work or she was gleeful when they didn't. I also realised it didn't matter all that much what other people thought and most don't think that much about others.

When I bought my apartment I couldn't decide for SEVEN years what to put on my walls. I lived with bare walls for SEVEN years even though I didn't want to. I went shopping so many times for pictures and picture frames and in the end could never make a decision.

My mother in particular is very judgemental. I think I feared judgement from others if it didn't look right to someone. Well, I had a point. Because when they first visited me in my new build they looked around like they were inspecting what I bought and I'm sure they went away gossiping about this or that. They never seemed pleased for me, let alone congratulated me.

Twatalert · 17/09/2024 09:11

I feel really sad for this younger version of myself that was SO happy to have been able to buy an apartment. I was so so proud to have done the process all on my own, but my family reacted with indifference and some kind of suspicion. Always suspicion if someone did something they would never do.

And there you go...I had a mortgage and dealt with solicitors but didn't think I was capable to choose pictures for my walls and put them up.

I hope I will never forget how they made me feel.

Happyfarm · 17/09/2024 09:28

Twatalert · 17/09/2024 09:11

I feel really sad for this younger version of myself that was SO happy to have been able to buy an apartment. I was so so proud to have done the process all on my own, but my family reacted with indifference and some kind of suspicion. Always suspicion if someone did something they would never do.

And there you go...I had a mortgage and dealt with solicitors but didn't think I was capable to choose pictures for my walls and put them up.

I hope I will never forget how they made me feel.

I’ve achieved so much really when I sit and think about it, but it’s nothing that anyone has been proud of. I renovated my house myself. I remember my mum coming over and me saying look I did all this wallpapering myself. To which she said well it’s not really my taste. I think that’s my problem, having this inner voice where nothing is ever enough. Sounds a little narcissistic.

Happyfarm · 17/09/2024 09:50

I’m struggling at the moment with my eldest daughter. She is at the beginning of an ADHD assessment. I get the brunt of her behaviour, she tells me constantly how much she hates me. I know she doesn’t mean it but I am human and I find it hard. My MIL takes this as confirmation that I am just faulty and is smug. My own mum understands that my daughter is struggling and shows empathy to her but not to me. I’m trying so hard to be a good mum but I have no one around for support. I hope that my daughters never ever cry alone and always come to me because it’s very lonely. I know none of this is proof that I’m just faulty but it’s horrible knowing family think that her ADHD is just proof of it.

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