August 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

I'm feeling a bit more optimistic. Thanks for the reminder that it's possible to shift my mind and outlook.

I have come such a long way. It's totally amazing. So this is just a blip I will be able to handle and next year things will be easier. It helps to remind myself of all the things that have changed. No more depression, anxiety and insomnia. This is a walk in the park compared with what I went through for over three decades.

Print that out or save it on your phone x

@Tinkerbell678 Were you at therapy for so long because of your Mum?

Have your sibling(s) been affected?

I wouldn’t go to therapy with her. I think it would play into her hands

@Raggycrow this is why this group exists! Hearing other people’s experiences IMO is helping with my own healing too. Hope you are ok x

@Purplerain303 yes pretty much 🤦🏼‍♀️ then it got worse when I had my kids.

i chose not to go. I’ve blocked her and have booked in with my lady to speak things through with her on Friday 🤞🏼 xx

Omg why is my aunt messaging me now. Not spoken to her in over six months. It's my father's sister. I'm getting paranoid. I'm thinking they must all have been gossiping about me and she's now testing the waters and will report back. I have no beef with her, but don't want to continue the relationship either. It's always been pointless. I did learn to walk on egg shells around her a bit too, although growing up she always seemed nicer than my parents and I had a fantasy that I could go and live with her.

I’d keep all conversations bright and breezy, be your lovely self but keep it completely surface level stuff. Give away absolutely zero information. Then don’t give it another thought regarding intentions as it’s of no concern because it doesn’t matter. Don’t go down that thought spiral of picking anything apart because it causes madness to try and understand madness.

Thanks @Purplerain303 x

Does anyone else on here have/are ADHD? (Sorry I never know how to word it). I sometimes wonder whether my childhood relationship bonds were a cause or whether my parents were just not aware of what I needed so raised me ok for a “normal” child but it was wrong for me and caused more trauma. I sometimes wonder whether I expect too much from them because the inability to bond may have been impacted by my ADHD rather than coming from them. I hope this makes sense. I only found out as an adult about my ADHD. It’s partly why I just stay away from people who cause me to feel pain because it’s the only tool I have that helps.

@Happyfarm I have adhd and it has nothing to do with the fact I have had a shit upbringing. Unfortunately their bad parenting is a stand alone thing.

Twatalert

Your aunt is acting as a flying monkey here with her own agenda. She is not acting in your best interest here so her opinion should be ignored. She’s been sent in by some narcissistic relative to do their bidding as she is easily manipulated.

I don't have adhd, so know that I have no idea what it's like. Just wanted to say that Gabor Mate once offered a theory that it can be a trauma response starting in infancy and before we are even conscious. Surely an adhd brain works differently from 'normal' brains but so do brains with cptsd or any kind of trauma.

@AttilaTheMeerkat That could be or it could be totally innocent. I don't know.

My SiL has in her whatsapp status today that some mother in laws (my mother) treat their DiL (my SiL) like a daughter, with a heart emoji. I want to throw up. I had no idea she felt like this and it really messes with me. She has NO idea what it is like to be my mother's daughter. I feel really sad and invalidated. Nobody will ever believe me that I went through hell.

@Twatalert your SIL most probably has something missing that your mum fills. Your mum fills it because she gets something from your SIL. It’s all transactional based relationships, co dependant. Remember to look at it not through your emotional and traumatised eyes. Don’t look at it through the eyes of your inner child but through the eyes of the person you are now with knowledge.

That’s where I struggle as my parents, more so my mum did what a lot of other mums did. I had friends over, parties, holidays. But she did not see me. Or maybe I didn’t know how to go to her for support. I’m terrible asking for support now. I have always since as far back as I can remember feel rejection as physical pain. Sometimes I wonder if I found rejection where it wasn’t.

@Happyfarm Wow, you are spot on, thank you. My SiL grew up in a dysfunctional family too. I remind myself she has no idea because all she'd spend with my mother are a couple of hours every other week, maximum.

EP 10 Narcissistic parents with Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna • Unfollowing Mum (spotify.com)

This may help. It helped me x

My SIL is the same only with our MIL. My SIL was practically left to raise herself so the need to be accepted is very strong. My MIL is very narcissistic and needs to be the centre or attention. She loves the attention of SIL and SIL feels needed, it’s win win. But it comes at the cost of my BIL and SIL identity and independence. They are fully controlled by my MIL. Yeah I’d like some attention but I’m a grown adult and I control myself. As such me and their son and grandkids are ostracised.

@Happyfarm Oh my, it was never your job to go to your Mum and ask for support. It was their job to understand your needs, even if adhd wasn't known back then. But it's not YOUR fault.

I have learnt a lot about babies and how their brains are being altered if the caregiver is not available emotionally or physically. Babies know and 'worry' about survival, even though they don't think. A lot of trauma starts there already. Then what happens when we grow up at 4, 6 or 11 is just adding to it. The generational trauma gets passed on from day 1 of our lives. Not suddenly from the age of 5 or whatever we remember.

I just want to say I find the comments really helpful. I sometimes think 'should I even post this thing that is happening right now' and 'I am so needy, why do I need to tell strangers on the internet', but the responses often help me shift my view a bit. 💚

I’ve no idea about my mum as a child, I have no memories before age 16 really. Based on how I view her now..hmmm she will help me physically. But I’ve never been hugged in my memory of her, not even when dad died. I’ve always worried about her. She has M.S so health isn’t great and I did worry a lot as a child. Make sure never to give her worry or stress etc.

We have very needy sometimes very sad little people inside of us. Sometimes it’s hard to help that little soul on our own. We are not meant to do everything alone.

@Happyfarm this sounds like parentification.

I suppose and we are meant to be parenting ourselves but we are learning. One day maybe we stop posting because we can do it on our own. I’m getting better at taking my own advice lots of the time. But sometimes I forget.

@Happyfarm I hope so too. I hope things will continue to become less disstressing and my emotional state will continue to become less volatile. For now, we can all learn from each other and receive support for when we forget what we knew only a few weeks ago.