August 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

@MsNeis Thanks. Im not going to pick up and am considering blocking. She's got my husband's number if she genuinely does need to speak to me (and once made a point of phoning my BIL at 2am to phone me rather than, you know, phoning my mobile). It's all just about creating the maximum drama.

It could be something as simple as being partnered to her golden/favourite child, it can be that juvenile! When my Mum did that to my husband (then boyfriend) there was only her, my sister and I there besides him so it was very obvious. I’ve had a similar experience with my husband’s brother’s wife (so sister in law). She’s always been like this. Turns out she was friendly with my husband’s ex girlfriend at university and when he finished with her, for me, it obviously coloured her opinion of me!! We’ve been together nearly 30 years now and she’s still unfriendly and unwelcoming. Nothing as strange as some folk, I also now don’t socialise with them. Luckily my husband finds her very odd too and quite happy to avoid them.

Ah ok so the moral of the story is to not always think that it’s about me and why they don’t like me. Sometimes they just got some stupid nonsense going on. I always worry I’ve upset people and try harder. I’ve pretty much given up being accepted now anyway by this family, it gets me down. Im trying to concentrate on liking myself.

Exactly this. If your initial welcoming and friendly approach has been thrown back in your face, it’s them, not you! My godmother always use to joke ‘marry an orphan’ and its closer to the truth than we’d like sometimes 🙄 dealing with our own families is bad enough, then you get someone else’s in the mix!!

It is crazy how trauma is just passed down through the generations. I’m 40 now and I’ve only recently discovered I was continuing it thanks to my mum. I’m trying hard to break this shit but it’s hard and it’s an everyday continual work situation. Many people just don’t know how difficult this is. Especially reading situations and people when you have zero skills and paper thin skin. I have been getting sucked into this in law family dynamic but I think I’ve spotted it now.

@Genuineweddingone - happy birthday! I hope your day has involved cake and wine.

Two months into an unintentional NC situation with my family. Minus a brief exchange when I sent birthday presents to my mum and sister. This is the longest I have gone without proper communication with them.

today I’ve noticed I’m experiencing this weird sense of depersonalisation. I feel like don’t really recognise or identify with myself or my reflection. I look at old photos and it’s like looking at someone else, despite being only a few months old.

I’ve (finally) lost feelings for someone who totally broke my heart after nearly 3 years and that in itself is weird because it felt like so much of my identity centered around that, and that connection. Now I just feel indifferent.

I don’t feel much attachment to anything I own. In fairness a lot has changed in my life (new job, new house, new town, drastically different hair, new housemates) but not sure if this is just that or in some way connected to the family situation and trauma generally.

maybe I’m in the process of reconfiguring my identity now it no longer relates to how (badly) other people have treated me? Anyone else had this?

I’m hoping it goes away soon because it’s making me feel really unsure of myself, like I don’t exist!

Hi all, I've been directed here by some lovely folks. 2 months NC with my mum (widow and no family) Dad's side has family but distant. Have brother but also distant and a bit abusive. Lifetime of angry and violent outburst but most recently so aggressive I've had to go NC

Last time I saw her she

called my oldest friend and person that has always been there for me "some random old schoolmate".

said that she didn't want her here at Christmas after we planned everything around her, which was not true.

said nobody wanted her to move here (100 miles south) which was not true.

said that I was a bad kid.

accused me of lying about dad pushing me down the stairs, saying he must have squeezed past me. He pushed me with both hands from the top, on purpose.

mocked and imitated my hand gestures and voice.

said I am a bad person, and always have been.

said I am pathetic.

said that everyone in my life will desert me.

repeatedly screamed and swore at me, telling me to "fuck off" many times

lied to my friend who was there that night in the morning and said I'd called you a bad mother, before having to backtrack and admit that I didn't, I called you aggressive, which you are.

her parting comment was that her retirement was now ruined

I'm 34, married, no children and a new job, home on the South coast and making a life for myself. back in therapy after 7 years and glad to be

Bless you, you DO exist. It's just that you are seeing yourself through your own eyes honestly for the first time which can be unfamiliar ❤️

I'm reading Susan forward

www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=38NSJWNMJ8DGI&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.3vPARJlLgM0eskzRWxQHf7KuwGAvBfDTiavw7d-eMECSshCpTXLWj6PHpkWWQv0-VswVzi-fBoUvgcsaHnkNBdIc59uIgbtbg8dTKtNepVLZrnbEzxmejDj_PPoMJwkZLywA3395JtrRhEY0vFM0qPpJ95RbRUyp0u3OWK4kwRqmLSd37Nw9N41Wku7dQbgwb6qoRuQlA-L2rTYOoldfOw.9czo4yDKbUrfZ9AjuiuRb6hAA86O0TsAPaSeJykOAnA&dib_tag=se&keywords=toxic+parents+susan+forward&qid=1724533781&sprefix=toxic+parents%2Caps%2C87&sr=8-1

My mum is one of those lovely narcissists who go out of their way to help everyone…because it reflects well on them. My mum would also see me lying in bed I’ll for days and not so much as offer a glass of water, let alone offer medication or food.

Just one silly example.

Omg my MIL does everything for everyone in the village. She plants flowers down the verges and heads all the local committees but like you will do nothing for us. It had me stumped for a long time but now I see it’s all about it reflecting well on them. Me having surgery and blood transfusions and really poorly after giving birth…nah not interested.

Hi everyone.
I try to start my own post but never get to send it. I find it difficult to tell my story. I read you all and that always help. It validates my own life.
You can't tell people how much you hate your own mother. Nobody can understand. I live abroad and i really dread seeing her a couple of times a year, I dread talking to her on the phone. I dread every time she looks at me and is physically near me. Most of all I dread the whole dysfunction of my family. My dad who I really love, is an enabler. He puts up with my horrible mother for the sake of a quiet life. He justifies all her shitty behaviour. My other sibling went NC with everyone many years ogo.
Since being a child mother always dismissed any point I make. She feels she needs to be the centre of attention everywhere she goes. She interrups and talks about her. She never takes any interest about my life or anyone else's, unless there is some kind of drama she wants to know about. Everything is about her. She can turn any conversation about her.
She knows best, and she feels in a constant competition, specially with me. I have my own DC and find this crazy. I always feel so proud of them, specially if they do things i never got to do or im not good at. How can you feel in competition with your own children, and put them down in regular basis, I don't know.

I built up my self steem sice leaving my parents' home and leaving my own country more than 20 years go, all to scape my mother.
As a previous poster mentioned, I also did feel suicidal in my teenage years and early twenties while still at home with my parents. Now, every time I have to visit my parents, now elderly, it all comes back to me.

I have my own family and I always think they have saved me. I am so happy with my husband and children. With the country I live and made so many good friends and a new life.
But those visits to my parents kill me. I know I need psychological help but I am not brave enough. But this group really and truly is my help.
Thank you. Every single one of you. This post is not very well written and I still feel I can't tell my story the way you all do so well. It's like I can't let all out. But I'm grateful you are all there. Thanks again. x

There is a name for it and it is a type of narcissism. They are addicted to the praise, compliments, recognition.

eg “Norm’s mum is sooo kind. Always doing so much for other people. So selfless. So generous. Always there for everyone. Such a trooper”.

They are only sooo kind though when the world is watching. Behind closed doors, forget it.

@Wigglytuff345 I felt like that for a while when first going NC. It’s like you lose the identity that’s been forced onto you your whole life and you’ve no idea who you actually are. Like waking up from a weird dream. As time passes you start to find your real self and it can seem daunting to begin with, but later it feels liberating and freeing.

Thank you, I’m hoping things will feel better once I’m settled into my new role and start making some friends etc. I used to be in contact with my mum pretty much every day so it feels strange, I haven’t missed them either which feels even more strange, just sad about it all!

@Wigglytuff345 you’ve described it exactly. It’s also the realisation that this is the only way forwards and of course there is a sadness that they’ve caused this. I feel the same even now. However as you move forwards and find your feet in your new role, you’ll be allowed to be/find yourself and become more confident and comfortable in your own skin. If you haven’t missed them that tells you a lot.

@Wigglytuff345 I don't know how it would feel daily contact. I can hardly maintain a short conversation once a week. I personally mourn the mother I never had perhaps that's part of what you feel. I ache for not having that reassuring voice when things are tough or a mother to celebrate with you good moments. If you think about it, you are going NC because not matter what you do, you will never have that. Take one step at the time x

Here I am again ☹️

So got a phone call at 11 this morning asking if I was doing a roast dinner today, I said no, I’m out sorry.
I didn’t pick up on any atmosphere (mistake 1).

I decided to call in on my way home. I don’t often just call in anymore, this is something she complains about. But I did need a wee and thought we could have a cup of tea together (mistake 2).

I got there less than 1 hour after phone call. In that time she managed to have a big row with another family member, and announced that fact on my arrival. I didn’t pick up on the animosity towards me (mistake 3).

By the time I came out of the loo less than 2 minutes after arrival I got all fury of hell thrown at me. Names, accusations, told to off. I actually stayed calm, didn’t argue but did point out inaccuracies (mistake 4).

Why would a mother do this ?
Why do I keep going back to it ?

Sorry you had this. It’s hard to break the conditioning sometimes. I could honestly slap myself for going back in the past and putting up with my mum’s crap. It’s like kicked puppy syndrome. That’s why I’m NC now to be honest, she has the ability to manipulate me and make me feel like I’m a 7 year old guilt ridden child again, and a very disappointing one at that! Why does she do it? Honestly, there’s no logic to it and you could spend 10 lifetimes trying to figure it out. I’ve given up. Generally they’re unhappy and want to spread the misery is my best guess.

Well after everything guess what she did? She went to family in the uk that she went to at my sons birthday too just to get her face all over big family pics for them to put online and rub in my face. All the weekends in the world and this one she went there. I have now deleted all the english family. I dont want to see pics like that all over sm so now i wont.

@Happyfarm Mine was awful both times I gave birth. With DS in the run up she kept bombarding me with calls, e-mails and texts and it was very intrusive. Despite this we were good about keeping her updates and she repaid me with trying gatecrash the operating theatre, she "just happened" to be passing the hospital she lives1.5 hours away from.

With DD I lied about the due date and didn't say anything until she was born. I was very ill and had lost a lot of blood - visibly very sick. She came up to visit and didn't seem at all worried about me, and tried to get DS to go in the car with her when I got discharged (it just worked out a bit awkwardly that I was being discharged when they were there). She didn't stay long at our house then began to bombard me with texts. I had to go back into hospital with high blood pressure and I explained this and said I'd be in touch when I got out.

This did not go down very well and she kept trying to contact me anyway then went round telling the rest of the family I was keeping DD from her.

Folk that have gone NC, how did it work out over time? I had that row with her last week and said I'd only speak to her about my DF, but she was pushing to meet up then tried to call the next day.

She was so sneery and horrible, and gas lighting. One of the main things that made me realise how her behaviour wasn't normal was when she wrote a book about my brother dying and gave it to me to read without telling me what it was about. I was absolutely devastated when I read it, she'd expected my teenage self to be an emotional crutch and I had to bear the brunt of some very difficult behaviour from her and it brought it all back.

She mercifully agreed not to publish it on Amazon then told me she was writing another book but it wasn't to be published. Later on I found out she had in fact published it. I pointed this out during the row when she seemed astonished anyone might think her capable of lying, but this was my fault too, somehow.

I feel horrible and it's all going round and round in my head. But being low contact wasn't working as she kept shoving and shoving at boundaries.

I haven't said anything to my sister or other relatives yet which is stressful.

Also, how did you explain thingsto your kids? DD is 6 and sometimes asks to see granny. On the very, very rare occasion DM has helped with childcare she always created some sort of stupid drama so I stopped asking years ago. My parents refused to stay at our house and generally expected us to visit them so DD hasn't seen a lot of them anyway.

@HoraceGoesBonkers my daughter was about 8 when I first went no contact. We use to see them quite a bit as my mum had moved 5 mins down the road which was half the problem. However when we went NC I tried to keep contact with my daughter as my Husband/sister helped and if possible, I didn’t want to spoil their relationship. Turns out I was a bit of an idealist with that aim! My mum arranged with my husband to pick my 8yr old daughter up from school and then told my sister she wasn’t going to do it. When my husband phoned my mum to check (without mentioning my sister) that she was ok to pick up that day, my mum screamed a load of abuse down the phone at him and said no she wasn’t planning to, so my daughter would have been left at school alone. Knowing my mum she’d have definitely done it too. So that was that! We moved away about a year later so not an issue.

I then told my daughter that granny was a bit unwell in her head and we were having some time out because she was behaving badly. After that she never asked or missed them because my mum was a cold old fish to her anyway and she had a busy little life, I was NC for 6 years before I gave them a second chance which my mum once again blew. The connection after 6 years NC on my daughter’s side was gone. Now aged 18, my daughter knows my mum’s as mad as a bucket of eyeballs. She’s seen it for herself and my nieces of a similar age know it also. I make sure I don’t bad mouth my mum to my daughter, but am politely honest about her if asked and if she wanted to see them she could, but has no wish particularly and off to Uni shortly.

Why do we have guilt for our children not having a relationship with someone we KNOW is toxic ?

LC/NC I can just about manage, but this is the thing that keeps me going back for more abuse every time.

One of the things I was accused of yesterday was ruining their relationship- and that’s after so many occasions of months of NC, plus witnessing the abuse firsthand that I am subjected to. My grown up children do not want a relationship with her anymore. And that’s my fault apparently.