August 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

@binkie163 has literally hit the nail on the head - all of the nails on all of the heads in fact. I am sick of it all being given the guilt treatment the silent treatment etc all because I now have set boundaries. Not one of the flying monkeys would allow themselves nor their kids to be treated the way my mother treated me but I decide to not allow it anymore and they go absoutely ape.

Of course they do. I wont suck it up anymore. I am no longer the fallback guy and now every one of them or any one of them could be the next target. That is the only reason they want us to go back and smooth things over - so they are not the next target and I am all out of empathy, sympathy and quite frankly fucks now.

So my birthday is this coming Friday. Yesterday my mother apparently got 'ran over' by an escooter. She posted it to fb and someone sent me the screenshot. Now she did not post it to garner sympathy, absolutely not. Yes she is battered and bruised but she is tough and has stated she is tough but the poor kid who ran her over is who she feels sorry for and had to write this publicly on fb for this alleged kid she has never seen before, will never see again and assume is not even on bloody facebook just so people know about her bruising and pain but also because she is so so selfless she is more worried about this child. She tagged a few of the flying monkeys and my step sister in law who fucking hates her too but just so absolutely everyone can read about how selfless she is. Always thinking of other people she is - so she told me before looking wistful. All an act. I am waiting on a call/text/email or letter now by carrier pigeon telling me my poor mother has been been in some type of accident. I mean who knew that a few days before MY birthday something dramatic would happen to her? In 47 years its like this has never happened before....

My eyes have rolled so far back into my head at this point I dont think they will ever descend.

Hi, daughter of a narcissistic mother here. I'm 40 years old, been NC for 7 years. Finally broke away from her when she tried to destroy my wedding. Found out recently that she's using an old photograph of my DS as her social media profile pic. He's only 4 in the photo. He's 9 now. The photo was taken by my brother in law and posted on his social media after I went NC with my mother. So she has actively searched for my it and copied it to her own page. I contacted the site in question and they said there's nothing they can do to make her remove it. I know it might seem petty but I hate that she has that photo and that she has posted it without my permission. My brother in law has made his page private now so she can't do it again. I can only think of two reasons why she's done it. Either to pretend to others that my DS is still in her life, so she doesn't have to explain to people why her own daughter finally walked away from her. Or she's using the photo to get sympathy from others like "this is all I have left of him" type of thing. Knowing her I think it's more likely to be the latter. I gave her a chance to be a grandmother, but he was unsafe in her care. She blew it.

@On3Mor3Try everything is done deliberately to coerce a response from you. The only way to deal with these wackos is to ignore them, starve them of narc oxygen. It is a shit thing to do and she knows it and probably laughing her arse off about it. As awful as it is [I would go ballistic] you have to ignore it, she is taking up your time, energy and headspace and she knows it.
She will get bored when no response and try the next batshit fuckwittery. Ignore and tell everyone not to tell you anything she is doing. Someone recently coined the phrase 'living rent free in your head'

@Genuineweddingone oh my goodness that has made me physically cringe and is exactly the kind of thing my mother would do. It's just classic narc isn't it. Firstly the post on FB and secondly something like that happening around your birthday. Do update us when the carrier pigeon arrives and I hope you have a lovely birthday!

Well I feel shitty because I did send the letter to my mum. I sent it as a WhatsApp so I will delete it today so it's not there forever. I feel like I've always been the quiet child, never argued back. My siblings did, but I always tried to keep the peace and I just had to say what I really thought. Especially around her behaviour towards my adopted younger sister. I knew she wouldn't apologise, won't change etc but I actually felt relief when I sent it. Initially her response was how awful she is, she hates herself, she is trying to change etc. This morning it's the justification and the excuses. For example that she doesn't agree that there's a problem teasing my younger adopted sister, all families do it (she's calls her a moody cow infront of all their friends in the pub, little sis will go upstairs and cry and she thinks it's funny). And a couple of classics I'm sure you're all familiar with 1. It seems I'm focused on only her mistakes and am ignoring all the acts of love she's shown me. 2. I'll realise that I'm not perfect either when me kids grow up. 3. I'm not allowed to say anything to you for fear of you reacting like this.
My younger sister has messaged to say that mum is amazing for saving her from her birth family and what I'm doing is awful. She says I need to get therapy (she ain't wrong!). It's so sad. She says she feels like she's losing her siblings all over again (they were separated aged 5). Such a shit situation. She has no idea how badly she's treated and thinks she lucky.
So I won't respond any further. I don't need to and I know it won't go anywhere. I'm off on holiday with my my in-laws this week so it'll be good to have some physical distance.

Hi,
so the last thread I had explained that my mom had recently lit a bbq on fire in her bedroom to try and ‘gas herself out’ taped her windows and doors shut and then took a photo of it and put it in the family WhatsApp - all because she had stopped her therapy/tablets/ was jealous it was my birthday and my sisters were on holiday. Amongst a million other things she’s done in the past. Sometimes she can be lovely (cooks,bakes, wants to entertain the whole family!) most other times she is bitter, jealous and nasty.
so after this incident when I called the police for help I went over dropped my kids off at a friends and met my dad at the house. Cleaned up her bedroom when she had gone to hospital etc etc. I havnt spoken to her since as I just felt like it was the last straw of attention. She also swore on my child’s life she was still taking her tablets and also told us all she has been discharged from therapy - she hadn’t. She left herself!

anyway I’ve had a text today. After she had blocked us all 4 weeks ago. This is brief of the text …
Any brackets are me explaining to you all.

“Hi ya , First of all I am sorry for any stress I may have imposed on you x I tried asking you if I could come to see Freddie (my son) but I had no reply so feeling foolish again I deleted the Message . I don’t know what I can say to you . I can’t say sorry because at that moment in time I didn’t want to be here it felt good when I went to sleep. I was so ill with covid ( had it twice before but that was the worst ever! so much so I was going to call my lung man but when Chris (my dad) said no wonder your kids don’t want you I desperately wanted to see you on your birthday and got very jealous but I knew I wasn’t well enough to go and when I have sworn to you that I have taken my tablets I was lying I miss the night one for about 3 months because I have it in my head that’s what’s making me not being able to sleep ( I was wrong and when I swore I had my fingers crossed I can’t get to sleep until about 4 in the morning) I thought what’s the point of going on I’m making everyone fuffing miserable they don’t want me and they couldn’t care less . I know for a fact if my kids did anything like that or were in trouble or their partners were causing trouble to them they would have to go through me first . I feel that everyone has walked away because it’s too much trouble for their lives. When I went last week to see my nutty woman back on now btw there was a massive poster with 2 people saying be there for someone when they need you mentally. I haven’t had one person ask how I was / am . Edele (my sister who’s still talking to mom ) says you were all frightened I see it as couldn’t care less . I hope I am wrong . It broke my heart to see my glitzy Susan (moms sister) rush to our house and get in the ambulance to give me a hug and say Jen you’re not well ! Kerry (therapist) said I must take my tablets but again I can’t understand how little tablets can alter your thinking . So I am very embarrassed i can’t walk around the village well not yet I drive to town with the dog . So sorry I love you very much just don’t know where to start xx”

is it just me or is this message all centered around her?
I just don’t know what to do. I need advice please. She makes me feel so guilty. Like I havnt been there for her and I have. After every incident in the past I have always gone back. But me and my sister have had enough. My other brother has gone no contact with the whole family. He says one day we will see the woods for the trees…

Hello @Tinkerbell678

Your mother is a sodding nightmare and you have to ask yourself whether you want to keep "giving" to her. Realising that she is mentally unwell doesn't really have any bearing on your decision.

I had a thing earlier this year when I had to make a decision whether or not to re-establish contact with my mentally unwell brother who had reached out to me. I felt very badly about it, but I decided no. In precis - I told him that I had nothing left to give anyone from my Family Of Origin.

You give an inch and they take a yard. Then the whole sorry cycle starts up again.

God knows it's hard enough to walk away and go NC from toxic family dynamics. The guilt is awful and it takes a lot of self-work to recover from the damage.

Protect yourself would be my advice. Work on the guilt, learn to emotionally detach, know that there is NOTHING you can do to improve your mother's life. All that will happen is that she will drag you down with her and stand on your shoulders while you drown.

@Genuineweddingone - This totally reminds me of how my Toxic Sister had to kick off every time without fail if I was having a birthday celebration. Ruining "the big surprise" for my 50th that my DH had gone to so much trouble to organise was a classic move.

We should set up a sweepstake for What Will Happen On Friday as your mother reaches peak meltdown.

Solidarity.

@Sicario I100% agree and I know what I should do… it’s the whole thing in the message where she says people need to be there for people with mental health problems. We have been there. SO many times. Why doesn’t she see that?
I do get sad that family gatherings won’t be the same again… as we will never be all together as the other siblings have cut her off.
My dad yesterday said I was being cold. He makes me feel guilty too… even though he said this time was the last straw .. again it wasn’t… they were out happily shopping 2 weeks after the event. I think it’s so normal in his life to live like this he just doesn’t see what it’s doing to his kids

@User543211 everyone said don't but it looks like you actually needed to say it just for your own sake. I hope you manage to get some space from them. Have a fabulous holiday.

@Tinkerbell678 - it's easier to point the finger of blame at you than to let the scales fall from their eyes and face up to the truth.

The whole "mental health" cry is a red herring when it comes to highly toxic behaviour. It makes no difference to the way the behaviour makes you feel. What about YOUR mental health?

This is the thing. It's all "me me me" with them. It will never change. Their mental health is not your responsibility.

Step back, drop the rope, and put everybody on mute while you take a break and recharge your batteries.

Hi guys, I have NC for this but I really need a third party opinion on a seemingly insignificant occurrence that took place yesterday.

Me and DD6 meet with my younger sister about 1-2 times a month. She's mid 20's I'm early 30's. She has always been a little difficult to spend too much time with, she can be very exhausting. She says it like it is, is very brutally honest which is fine because I've learnt to take her opinion with a pinch of salt. She's just very outspoken.

Anyway, long story short what started as a playful joke led my DD to cry in the middle of the shop and ask to go home. DD had told my sister she 'smelled really bad' my sister replied 'you smell of poo' then the store assistant sort of joined in on the joke and said 'I can smell poo in here'.

DD is a sensitive little thing, & is easily embarrassed so sort of hid behind a clothing rail & I could see she was starting to cry. When my sister noticed that DD was upset, she said 'don't be so soft, it was a joke you need to grow up and live in the real world & learn to take a joke' & 'don't dish it out if you can't take it back' this just made DD worse. I pointed out that she is only 6 years old & to lay off.

They eventually made friends again but the way she spoke to DD really fucking pissed me off to the point I almost grabbed DD's hand and left the shop. It was like she was speaking to someone her age, this is typical behaviour of my sister but she's never directed it toward DD before.

They normally have a really good relationship but as DD gets older she's picking up on certain characteristics in my sister that she doesn't like & has mentioned them to me.

I felt like I didn't stick up for DD as best I could have because to be honest sometimes I just freeze in those situations as I hate confrontation with my sister. She triggers really bad anxiety in me.

Help and advice are so so welcome please?! Xx

@Nastyaa I'd firstly want to check in with my child and understand why they'd say something like that. I would not be pleased if my child at age 6 said that to someone. I think the child needs to understand you don't say that to people, especially adults, no matter how immature adults may be.

Second, yes it's quite immature for a 20 year old to do that. It sounds like forcing a circle into a square hole by bringing yourself and sister together or Indeed your daughter and your sister together. I'd try keep the meet ups to a minimum.

@Nastyaa I couldn't edit my post so just added here as think my reply sounds a bit brutal 🤦‍♀️.
Try not worry about not defending - I think alot of us have been here a few times. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. You really truly can protect your daughter in direct response to this by keeping strict boundaries with your sister. Reduce contact, make excuses as to why you aren't available. Your instincts will be right on this one. There's a problem with the way she behaves and that's why you feel anxious around her. Keep her at a massive distance and you really will feel empowered.

Thanks everyone for your really helpful advice regarding my family gathering with NC sibling and low contact narc parent.

So would you believe it was on the surface the nicest, most pleasant gathering I can ever remember having. Nothing but respectful, polite, engaging. Treated with respect in a way I have never experienced.

How messed up is all this. Nothing has changed for me. Other than thinking how utterly messed up people can be. I know full well this person has not changed, this is just a response to a dramatic shift in my behaviour - the first time I've ever shown through actions that I'm done.

My child adored his time with his cousin. And this is what is really trouble for me. Due to my health, my child is primarily with father and his family there. My sibling tries engage contact through my ex. Its like a gigantic conspiracy. I know inside my sibling and mother are raging that I have removed or dramatically severed their access to their possession, eg my son.

It feels like it never stops. I have made it clear to my ex I want there to be no contact between my child and my sibling. I believe a part of my ex thinks I am probably being dramatic etc etc. You guys will know what outsiders can be like when we try explain some part of what's going on.

I really feel like this will be something I can't control. My child still goes on about wanting to see their cousin. I'm sick of it as.selfish as this may sound, I have broken my back for everyone around me, including my own child so they can still see their cousin. Now I've just had enough and I want him to just quit hounding me.

@Pantaloons99
this is obviously the nice phase of the cycle designed to confuse you and suck you back in of course

It must be v hard for you with your child because it kind of leaves the door forever ajar.

@Nastyaa
can you use it as a learning experience by explaining that other people can be sensitive too and it is not appropriate to hurt their feelings either etc.
As a one off I would let it go but of it is part of a wider pattern affecting your daughter then I would keep her away from your sister.

Tinkerbell

re your comment:
"My dad yesterday said I was being cold. He makes me feel guilty too… even though he said this time was the last straw .. again it wasn’t… they were out happily shopping 2 weeks after the event. I think it’s so normal in his life to live like this he just doesn’t see what it’s doing to his kids".

Women like your mother cannot do relationships so rely on a willing enabler to help them; your dad here is her willing enabler. He is also her secondary abuser and he cannot be relied upon either. He will continue to sacrifice you all on her alter and otherwise throw you under the bus out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. You need to stay well away from him too.

I would go as far to say your mother does not have MH issues at all; she has an untreated, and untreatable, personality disorder. And as Sicario writes in her comment, "The whole "mental health" cry is a red herring when it comes to highly toxic behaviour. It makes no difference to the way the behaviour makes you feel. What about YOUR mental health?".

Be tired of being the last person who matters here. Drop the rope and grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

I would stay well away from your sister going forward; a person who causes you bad anxiety herself. If she is too difficult/toxic for YOU to deal with its the SAME deal for your child also.

Your sister's whole attitude and all this being brutally honest crap she gives out is merely another form of bullying. She in all likelihood cannot take any criticism at all. You would not tolerate this from a friend so do not tolerate it from her. Do not reward bad behaviour by remaining in contact, cut her off.

Hi guys.. it’s good to find this thread about toxic families. Truth be told I’ve always felt different to my family. Long story short.. parents broke up when I was 4/5.. I was put in boarding school at 6..I was left there for weekends so my mother could holiday with her new richer much older bf.. now her husband.. she’s never supported me financially since I left home at 18.. just tuts when I’ve asked for help. I’m now 48 with two beautiful children of my own.. my mother is becoming more toxic as the years go by.. she’s not happy being a carer of her now elderly husband.. and she has a whole host of health issues herself.. mostly bought on by a lifetime of heavy drinking and smoking. My 11 year old daughter doesn’t like her at all..
anyway.. we went there a couple of weeks ago for lunch.. we all hate going as they are so toxic to be around and they clearly hate one another. I’d stupidly confided in my mum that I had been having marital problems.. mostly bought on by my menopause.. but over the table at her home.. from absolutely nowhere she says to my children and husband.. ‘best thing to do with your mother is to just agree with everything she says and then apologise’.. it was said nastily and felt like a real stab in the back given the marital issues I’d had. My children were shocked she’d said it.. but it’s not the first time she had a dig at me for no reason.
I told her via text afterwards that she had upset me.. she didn’t respond.. now she is the one ignoring me .. she never admits when she is wrong.. and never has.. there is loads more to my upbringing that I won’t bore you all with..but
she has become so bitter and hard to be around.. I’d love to go completely NC as I just don’t like her.. or her husband.. what do I do? My real father disappeared when I was 13 never to be seen again.. is it possible to have two awful birth parents?
what do I do?
TIA

@Kelwar - the solution is to go No Contact with her and her husband. She won't change. If anything, toxic people get worse as they get older.

There is nothing there for you. The well is dry.

The only thing keeping you in the relationship is the FOG - Fear, Obligation and Guilt - which is drummed into us as children.

Shake it off like an ill-fitting coat that doesn't belong to you.

Walk away. Drop the rope. Block her number and delete her from your life. Don't look back. Make a better and brighter future for yourself without her.

Hi Pantaloon, your dynamic sounds similar to mine.. have you decided to go NC? I really want to do that.. I’ve tried before but my mother bombards me with emails etc and drives me mad.. she’s a narc too.. as is my brother, although I have contact with him.. and will because I’ll never see my nephews and niece if not .. but I’ve no interest in my mother after 48 years of neglect.. and slightly digs now.. it’s hard isn’t it.. why are we the ones left with the guilt when we have had hideous parents?

I would love to.. she has ruined so much of my life already.. from spending most of my childhood crying.. to craving a present mother and grandmother for my children.. I am a people pleaser and have tried to do right by her as she has so many health issues.. she’s not grateful or kind to me.. she only offers help when she knows I’m unhappy and I think she does it to elevate her own happiness.. knowing I’m sad.
how do I navigate this guilt free.. ? I haven’t spoken to her for a couple of weeks and it’s been bliss.. and if she passes I will feel both relief and sad for the mum I didn’t get.. it’s a horrible feeling..

@Kelwar I am incredibly unwell and basically sofa ridden. Being so close in physical proximity, I feel low contact is my only choice. I am not well enough to move. I have moved my child away due to my ill health but also as they will be in a healthy family dynamic with dad, caring stepmum and siblings. That is all I can really do.
I haven't the strength to deal with the gigantic fall out of NC. I'm virtually NC with sibling. This gathering was the only contact in 6 months.

I totally understand.. don’t put anymore pressure on yourself than you can manage.. X

@Kelwar there are 2 choices

1. Stay and continue to be upset, hurt and disappointed.
2. Walk away.

There is no middle ground with narcs. It's not easy and it isn't guilt free but it is 100% better than staying as a punch bag. I went NC, spur of the moment, I had had enough, blocked parents and siblings. I just couldn't waste another minute of my life on my family bullshit. My mum was a narc and my dad a weak manipulative enabler. Both my parents were alcoholic. Old toxic people are still toxic and will take you down with them if you let them.