This isn't me is it?

[WeNeedBees]

I have had so many issues in my marriage with my DH he says I can't be trusted, I don't feel like that is justified at all. I have never cheated, I have never behaved inappropriately or had an emotional affair.

He says I lead men on, I need attention from them, I can't be trusted.

I am losing sight of what is rational here, maybe it is me?

Last nights argument - A guy I did a sporting event with (as a group) last year followed me on Instagram, I accepted and followed him back. Both of us are married. There has been no further interactions, no messages, nothing.

My DH has gone crazy - I am leading this guy on, we will at some point start messaging, I want his attention.

This is fairly typical of the accusations, another example from two weeks ago -

A guy was arranging to cut the grass, there were a few messages back and forth and then we finalised the date/time/cost. Rather than send another message I just reacted to the message with the heart. To my mind that says yes I have seen this message and I am happy with it.

Same thing the next time he was due to come round, he had to change the agreed time so we rearranged and I heart reacted it. My thought process was that DH wouldn't like me prolonging a conversation and that just shut it down whilst accepting.

Apparently this is a sign of how I can' be trusted because the heart react is leading this guy on and giving him the wrong idea.

There are hundreds more examples I could give, all very similar - I don't feel like I behave inappropriately but DH says I can't be trusted.

I can't keep doing this, we are in therapy together but I can't see a way forward.

Is this me? Am I somehow begging for attention? I don't feel like I am leading people on but am I in denial. I feel like this whole thing is insane.

OP, you are in the very early stages of this. But your situation terrifies me MORE than SILs. Because his level of control and abuse, while they were together, didn't even get to the level you are experiencing. And he STILL ramped it up, with many of the behaviours I'm referencing happening after they officially ended their relationship.

The "playing the victim" thing IS something I completely understand. But what you have to understand is that even when he behaves badly, he STILL thinks he is the victim.

@WeNeedBees the fact that no one agrees with how you are using the heart emoji has nothing to do with how completely unreasonable he is about that and many other things.
No you haven’t lead the gardener on.

Get him to arrange to have the grass cut himself then suddenly he will be over the moon for you to use the heart emoji.

He sounds really controlling.

I'm not sure, we were offered two types of family therapy aimed at helping us to communicate better.

The first one was I think Structural FT where they go through communication tools and teach us how to communicate and then this one the one we have chosen is them listening and then discussing it. Could be Systemic I am not sure though.

It is aimed at identifying our values and coming up with processes to achieve our goals (The goal being a stable, happy relationship)

You need to change your therapist, no decent therapist is going to engage when the other partner is clearly abusive.

But your communication is not the issue. It's his controlling and manipulative nature. That is extremely unlikely to change and not your job to facilitate that.

Very few therapists are trained to work with abusers. The problem is that abusers never seem themselves as the problem, it's always everyone else. So they won't properly examine their behaviour, because why should they? Therapy is predicated largely on being able to look at your thoughts, feelings and behaviours and how you relate to others. If you're not prepared to do that, it's very hard, if not impossible, for therapy to work.

My step-dad was like this. Completely irrational and convinced my Mum was having, or wanted to have, affairs with all sorts of men she knew. Their marriage counsellor actually told my Mum he couldn't be helped and that leaving him was her best option. She didn't. It was a miserable long marriage, only made bearable now by the fact that he has mellowed with age to the point that he doesn't get jealous at all now in his mid-70s. But it all feels a bit late for that as the majority of their lives were shrouded in misery that they all now seem to pretend didn't happen.

I just couldn't live like that, and I don't think you should either. My DH has never asked me anything about my social media, and never implies I'm flirting with anyone. I never worry or even think about anything like that, and that to me is what should be the norm.

Your husband is abusive and controlling. He's got you questioning your own sanity. He has got you shrinking and minimising yourself. Even when you've tried to leave him he has minimised it by saying it's your mood swing because your a silly irrational hormonal woman. He isn't taking any responsibility for his behaviour and how it impacts you. You are changing the essence of who you are so you don't offend him or start an argument. What you wear is a reflection of you, your style and personality. The same as how you interact with others. You should be able to wear what you want, follow who you want, chat to who you want, use the emoji you want ( although a 👍 would have been more appropriate). Unfortunately, he's an abusive and controlling man so it really doesn't matter what you do he'll always find something in order to assert control you over you. You'll look at someone for to long. You'll be out to long. He won't like your friends, family, colleagues and will isolate you.

You need to end the relationship and divorce him. You don't need his permission to do this. But you need to be strong. Talk to a solicitor without him knowing. Talk to your therapist without him knowing. Talk to woman's aid and make an action plan ( delete from your call long after) Strengthen you resolve.

You need to follow through. It is hard. It took me 7 or 8 times to leave my ex. The abuse got worse over time and everytime I left he upped his control and violence and my strength got weakened by being with him. It made it even harder to leave the next time. I managed to leave in the end with a lot of support. You can do it.

OP, be careful now, please don't let your guard down. The actual separation is a very delicate and dangerous time in a DV relationship.

And don't think he thinks, plans and acts like you or any other normal person. His head works differently, he's got a disorder, he's an abuser and he works like an abuser. Don't underestimate his ability to be dangerous and hurtful.

Be careful, be prepared: you're an intelligent person. Don't be alone with him under ANY circumstance. And please DO TELLwhat you're doing: don't be alone, look for help and understanding.

Best of luck 💜

I thought we would go to therapy, he would see that his behaviour is not acceptable and it would be like a magical moment of the scales falling from his eyes and he would want to change.

Instead he has just dismissed that I could possibly be telling the truth, refused to engage with some of the practices and said he feels attacked like it's all focused on him.

Only through going through this have I been able to realise that my hopes for therapy were unrealistic and he won't change. In fact he has gotten worse since we started therapy. Maybe he can see me coming to my senses.

Yikes. And you're still with this controlling, jealous man ... who is projecting onto you his own thoughts and behaviour towards women?

Honestly i don’t think this sort of therapy is at all helpful. It’s clear they all know he’s a controlling prick and they’re allowing you to realise that and maybe hoping he will too. Except that would take him backing down from an entire belief system he’s created to justify his control and insecurity, IN FRONT of up to what? Six people? who all know what a dick he is. That’s more than enough to get him to super double down so it doesn’t surprise me he’s got worse since therapy.

No, no, no OP.

The people who are focussing on the heart emoji are completely overlooking the point. Please do NOT let that be your take away here.

The heart emoji is a style that many people have and is not a big deal. In isolation, with no other encouragement, it would not be taken as a come-on by any sensible person. (At most it might open a question which would be closed in the absence of other encouragement). And within a trusting healthy relationship, using a heart emoji with someone else would be no big deal. In a healthy relationship a) your correspondence would never be monitored, so your partner would not know or be interested. B). If by any chance your partner did learn of it, they would either not care and respect your choices. Or they would raise a mild eyebrow and suggest the gardener might take it wrong and how would you feel about using a thumbs up instead. (And then respect your decision)

Anyway, as you said, the emoji is just one of hundreds of examples... and that's the thing- when you are in a controlling , abusive relationship, it's impossible to get it all right... you feel you are walking on eggshells, constantly adjusting, and something, however innocent, will be a misstep.... sometimes even your attempts to adjust become missteps in themselves.

Your husband is not right. I think you need to escape this control.

I’m so glad you can see what we can all see.

Take care getting free. Xxx

Every time you post more about him, it's more alarming.

Please don't focus on the love heart to gardener thing. That is a very small element of your situation, and you know you aren't trying to lead the gardener on. Love hearts are used in Teams in a professional environment as shorthand for 'that's great' / 'that's appreciated' / brilliant news' etc. Different from the thumbs up which is just 'OK' or 'noted'. It took a bit of getting used to, but that's become its meaning to many people.

In any case, you know you aren't leading the gardener on. You know you are trustworthy. You know you don't cheat and don't want to. You know your DH has cheated in every relationship he's been in. He's judging you by his own standards.

He either trusts you (which you deserve) or he doesn't (which is in his head). Either way, it's a him problem, not a you problem.

He has rules for what you can wear and how you text? He thinks he can't trust you? He thinks your current clothes are inappropriate but when you want to buy new ones he thinks that's a sign you're cheating? He thinks you crave male attention?

Honestly, you need to get away from this abusive man. Don't let him get any further into your head. He's starting to convince you that you're the problem and you 100% are not. The longer you're with him, the more he'll erode who you are, the more he'll control your life, the more he'll convince you you're in the wrong; the more unhappy you'll be; the harder it will be to leave.

You deserve better.

Don't feel any shame in having 'failed' at marriage. For a start, he's the one who's failed at marriage - he isn't capable of a healthy relationship. You should be proud to have had the strength to recognise you were being abused and to have left. Anyone who knows you and loves you will want you to be happy. If thew knew what he was really like they'd be begging you to leave.

And in any case, even if one or two people did judge you (highly unlikely) - would you rather spend the rest of your days unhappy or be free with one or 2 judgy people (and they soon move on to the next story anyway).

Be free. Be happy.

That sums it up exactly, I walk on egg shells trying not to break rules that I don't know about and then if I am acting odd to not break the rules then that is sign of an affair too.

I am going out for dinner with my brother at the weekend and he made a comment about how people would think we are on a date.

His comment about your brother is weird. You need to get away from this man. Can you talk to your brother - start to open the conversation?

When I was unhappily married I worried about what my (very traditional) family would think. I dismissed divorice for years because of it. When I had the first conversation with my dad about being unhappy, I was shocked (shouldn't have been) to find that he would support me whatever I decided to do. He loved me and wanted me to be happy. He asked what he could do to help me get out.

Anyone who loves you and is a decent person would want you to get out of this situation.

Anyone who thinks you should stick around and be miserable - well their opinion doesn't matter does it.

Of course the heart means love!

This is how my ex used to behave, when I finally ditched him I found out he’d been cheating on me left right and centre. I had spent so long trying not to lead men on to the point I was scared to even talk to other men. I was an idiot.

That said, I think a heart was a bit OTT response to those messages, a thumbs up would suffice. But his reaction is more OTT.

You've ignored the fact that he controls what she wears, who she talks to, how she texts people. He accuses her of cheating regularly. He doesn't trust her. He thinks people will think she's having an affair with her brother. He thinks she craves male attention and is always giving men the 'come on'.

And that's aside from the fact that the love heart emoji is a very normal, unromantic response in many circles.

Your advice is dangerous - a woman who is clearly in an abusive relationship shouldn't be told she's in the wrong and should stick around so he can abuse her more.

@unmp - you might want to read more of the thread. At the very least the OP’s posts. It is about way more than using a heart emoji.

Ok but the error was that they let you enter couples therapy at all. I am a therapist—we absolutely should not take a couple into therapy if one is abusing the other and his behavior is massively and obviously abusive. They should have screened him out and referred you to the freedom program and individual therapy. This is absolutely incompetent of them . Abuse is not a communication issue. Its just obviously not.

In addition his “value” is not a healthy adult relationship of equals—his “value” scheme is fostering a safe space for his wounded, paranoid, masculine ego. That is his goal and his stated principle (since he never accepts that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander).

Therapy with such a damaged, abusive, person can never work. Couples therapy which treats the relationship as the client is notoriously bad at managing a participant who is either incompetent to change or a sociopathic actor who acts in bad faith. The tendency of the unwary coupkes therapist is to believe that progress is being made because no divorce has happened. Bit some relationships should die. Its safer for you.

They should have screened him out snd offered you counseling to get away from the get go.

I’ll tell that to the joiner who is upstairs building a wardrobe then who responded with a heart to my reply to him for something. 🙄

Congratulations for focusing only on one little element and missing an entire series of posts about the suite of control OP has been subjected to. It enabled you to write such a ridiculous response, true achievement, well done. ❤️