Gaslighting H but I’m not sure he knows he’s doing it? Was I wrong today?

[MrsHelenHuntingdon]

My H is a nice person but had an abusive upbringing which affects a lot of his behaviour.
I have posted before. He has promised to change and that things will be better. I am giving it 6 weeks to see if things improve. If not I’m finally leaving.

I have recently been in therapy. My self esteem hit rock bottom and I was incredibly depressed. The therapist has helped me see that I’m not the awful person I thought I was, but that there’s been gaslighting to make me think this. I’m getting there now and much better than I was.

This morning - was I wrong??

I returned to work yesterday after 5 months off. This morning I was very tired and just wanted to stay in bed for a while. At 8am the kids came to say the dog had weed all over the toys in the living room and on the carpet. H had been up and downstairs for over an hour but hadn’t put his dog out.
This is typical of life in general. If I’m not there to oversee/do, then most house and child tasks will not be done.

I got up and I was annoyed. I said ‘why didn’t you put the dog out? I don’t understand it!’ he rounded on me instantly with ‘well your dog has shit in the house before, what about that then!?’ I said ‘well, yes if she’s ill or when she was a puppy’ and he really angrily turned on me with ‘well you can’t say anything, your dog has done it, how was I to know’ etc etc and ‘why do you always do this?? Why do you get up and start arguments and have a go at me?’

I answered that I hadn’t, but it was really annoying when I wanted to rest and he couldn’t even just let the dog out without me there to do it. He said he did open the door but he didn’t go out so wtf did I expect him to do? He’s had enough of me having a go at him etc.

Im now sat in my room crying (again) feeling like some awful nagging wife who just has a go at everyone all the time. The kids have gone with him.

I’ve been doing so much work on this and I was getting so much better, but now I’m just thinking it’s all the therapist being nice to me and that really it is me that’s constantly at fault.

Is it? I was really annoyed with him.

Don't doubt yourself Op, this is a small snapshot of your life so it seems trivial but it's your straw that broke the camel's back. Get away from your ILs and start again, with DH if he behaves better or without.

Did you read the OP? At all? He has a history of abusive and gaslighting behaviour.
He shut the door on the dog and wouldn't take it out, then yelled at OP for his laziness and only cleaned it up after she asked him.

I suggest you actually read the OP before posting.

Reminder to people this post is in Relationships and NOT in aibu.

I remember your previous posts OP.

Stay strong you're doing great.

You were totally right and he's in the wrong.

What a feeble excuse he gave about the Dog not going out... then he closed the door.

He knows he was in the wrong and that's why he became defensive.

Exactly.

Yep, I don't think @WhereIsBebèsChambre has even read the OP. Their posts are here are completely batshit.

@Choochoo21

Wow, you put a lot of words in my mouth there, and sound really belligerent about it.

If you think that his response (to defend himself, and blame OP for something else) was healthy, that's fine.

What I would have done in his situation would be to apologise for not having made sure the dog went out, and to clean up the pee. I wouldn't like my partner being annoyed with me first thing, but I do think it's fair to be annoyed by being woken by your kids telling you there's dog pee to clear up, when your partner is up, and in charge of proceedings dog and child related.

Thank you for your concern about my relationship. Myself, my partner and our dog and cat are all fine.

You were totally right and he's in the wrong

@itsmylife7

According to what authority?

I've not seen any other threads and as pp have said, this incident isn't gaslighting.
There really should be a disclaimer on threads 'please do not post unless you agree with the OP, other view points not acceptable'.

There really should be a disclaimer on threads 'please do not post unless you agree with the OP, other view points not acceptable

There's really no need for this. Some pps have more of an idea of OP's situation than others, and everyone has a different viewpoint. People are allowed to have an opinion, and to disagree.

Another one who didn't read the OP. Her husband refused to take the dog out, and shut the door on dog, meaning the dog couldn't go out. The OP's dog only had an accident when it was sick. Husband's dog peeing was totally avoidable. It's not about husband being in the toilet, it's about the fact that he didn't even take the dog out, in the first place. And then yelled at OP!!!

The OP's post on the thread, alone, shows it's gaslighting. Her husband very clearly gaslit her over this.

*I've never even seen OP's previous posts. But the OP on this thread so very clearly demonstrates gaslighting.

What I would have done in his situation would be to apologise for not having made sure the dog went out, and to clean up the pee. I wouldn't like my partner being annoyed with me first thing, but I do think it's fair to be annoyed by being woken by your kids telling you there's dog pee to clear up, when your partner is up, and in charge of proceedings dog and child related.

So you would have apologised to your DH because the dog had an accident??
Wow.

The DH was in the toilet when the dog had an accident and the child went upstairs to wake OP up - again not DH’s fault unless you think he’s not allowed to go to the toilet until OP chooses to wake up.

He didn’t make the child wake OP up and he didn’t force the OP to come downstairs.

In most healthy relationships, the person who wanted to stay in bed would have told the child to let their mum/dad know once they’d gotten out of the toilet.
And the person who was in the toilet at the time would clean it up once they were out.

I think we are arguing semantics, but I do not see how this is gaslighting. At all.

Genuinely asking - do you know what gaslighting is?

So many mumsnetters throw words around without understanding what they actually mean and the power behind them.

It’s an elderly, arthritic, outdoor, not house-trained dog - it’s going to have accidents.

Yes the DH could have physically forced the dog out, which I’ve said but that’s unfair if the dog is in pain or discomfort.

The dog didn’t want to go out.
The DH probably assumed that the dog would let him know when it needed to go, like most dogs do.
It just happened to need to go when DH went to the toilet and then DH cleaned it up.

DH now knows in future that the dog needs to be physically forced out or perhaps have an indoor toilet if it’s arthritis is playing up.

He is a grown adult that can work this out for himself and doesn’t need to be reprimanded like a child.

There was absolutely no need for this to be an argument, especially when it was the child who woke OP up and is now going to feel like they were to blame.

If the dog were desperate would it not have gone to the back door and whined etc?

The gas lighting is the DH accusing the OP of starting arguments for no reason when he let the dog pee on the kids toys - it’s quite hard to not let a dog out for a pee because they ask to go out, they stand at the door, they sometimes bark - he decided ludicrously that the dog is quite able to hang on for 11+ hours.

I get what you’re saying OP - I would have been apoplectic if someone woke me to sort out the dog when the other adult couldn’t be arsed to do it properly.
Plus I wouldn’t live next door to my in-laws.

Your plan sounds good. You could start making a plan for leaving, looking at financial stuff etc . Even if it doesn’t come to pass. You would at least feel you were moving forward instead of trapped.

@Choochoo21

So you would have apologised to your DH because the dog had an accident??
Wow

No. You keep putting words in my mouth and then going 'wow!' at your own fiction.

If I was downstairs looking after the kids and dog, and the dog had an accident, whilst my partner was having a lie in, I would apologise if my partner was interrupted because of a mess the dog made, that I hadn't cleared up.

It's really not complicated, and yet that's twice you've invented a fiction into my words, to suit your own argument.

If one adult is having a lie in, and the other is downstairs taking responsibility for the dependents, then the other, in a healthy relationship, would be able to rely on being able to relax for a bit without demands. None of it would have happened if he'd made sure the dog had appropriate care. People with old animals don't have to just accept soiled carpets; they're meant to amend the care routine, and he failed to do this.

@MrsHelenHuntingdon its not you. There are the same old names on here who come on every thread to kick a woman who has been broken by the shitty behaviour of men, to defend the great penis havers and renforce their pick me validation needs.

He may be a nice man but he is not a nice husband. His family toxicity is too engrained in him now to change - I remember your other threads.

Moving won’t change his learned traits - they are likely to get worse as they will be what he clings to once he’s outside the direct sphere of family dysfunction and needs to ‘find’ himself outside of that.

You deserve better. Use the 6 weeks to get your plan together and leave regardless.

He was in the toilet!!

Why should he apologise for the things that happened whilst he was in the toilet.

He cleaned up the mess.
There was no need for OP to even go downstairs.
He just obviously couldn’t clean it whilst he was sitting on the toilet and he shouldn’t need to apologise for that.

If the child saw that their dad was in the toilet and so decided to wake their mum up, then OP should have told them to go and wait for their dad to get out and stayed in bed.

I would have a completely different opinion if DH had woken OP up or had got the child to wake her up to clean it up - but he didn’t.
He cleaned it up once he’s gotten out of the toilet.

No one should be made to feel guilty because they went to the toilet.

The fact that you would feel the need to apologise to your DH because you were in the toilet and hadn’t had chance to clean up yet, is actually quite sad.

Thank you. Yes I realise now, I’m just not engaging with them any more.

Thanks for all the supportive posts. It means a lot.

I think what I mean by gaslighting is this constant changing of narrative to make me feel like I’m the most difficult, nightmarish argumentative nagging wife ever. When really I’m entitled to be annoyed over these things. This is just a small example but part of a much bigger picture. I do appreciate that, sorry.

@Choochoo21

The fact that you would feel the need to apologise to your DH because you were in the toilet and hadn’t had chance to clean up yet, is actually quite sad

Thank you for your judgement. I don't have a DH, you have no idea about my relationship or life, and you don't know, in this regard, what you're talking about. I'm not here to argue with you. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled not to give a toss about it. We clearly differ, and our opinions may have helped OP, so let's stop there with petty personal digs.

Sorry for the derail, @MrsHelenHuntingdon

There are the same old names on here who come on every thread to kick a woman who has been broken by the shitty behaviour of men, to defend the great penis havers and renforce their pick me validation needs.

to defend the great penis havers

And this is what is wrong with this forum.

Some women don’t like men.
And instead of taking the situation and seeing who was in the right or wrong at the time, they will base their opinions purely on the sexes of each person.

I do wish posters would not say the sex of each person involved, because they can never get a truly unbiased opinion else.

We all know that if OP was downstairs with the kids and dogs and her DH was having a lie in. And the minute she went to the toilet, the dog had an accident and the child went and woke her dad up and he came down being annoyed at OP - we would all be saying how he’s in the wrong and there would be many saying he’s abusive and to LTB.
No one would be telling the OP that she should have apologised to her DH or that she was wrong for getting defensive about being in the toilet.

It’s actually not helpful to these OPs to lie and base your opinions on their sex, even if they like it because in the long run that does nothing to help them.

It’s ok to disagree with a woman.
It doesn’t mean you are defending all men.

Op. Trying to look at this cold, I think this relationship is now so utterly broken that it is likely he thinks you are that, simply as your relationship is wrecked. You can’t stand each other, if he had to write about you it would be awfully negative, and you the same to him. Are you completely in th4 right and him wrong, possibly, probably, maybe, but you can’t stand each other, no tolerance, no team work, no love.just impatience, dislike, intolerance.

you should agree to end it,