Gaslighting H but I’m not sure he knows he’s doing it? Was I wrong today?

[MrsHelenHuntingdon]

My H is a nice person but had an abusive upbringing which affects a lot of his behaviour.
I have posted before. He has promised to change and that things will be better. I am giving it 6 weeks to see if things improve. If not I’m finally leaving.

I have recently been in therapy. My self esteem hit rock bottom and I was incredibly depressed. The therapist has helped me see that I’m not the awful person I thought I was, but that there’s been gaslighting to make me think this. I’m getting there now and much better than I was.

This morning - was I wrong??

I returned to work yesterday after 5 months off. This morning I was very tired and just wanted to stay in bed for a while. At 8am the kids came to say the dog had weed all over the toys in the living room and on the carpet. H had been up and downstairs for over an hour but hadn’t put his dog out.
This is typical of life in general. If I’m not there to oversee/do, then most house and child tasks will not be done.

I got up and I was annoyed. I said ‘why didn’t you put the dog out? I don’t understand it!’ he rounded on me instantly with ‘well your dog has shit in the house before, what about that then!?’ I said ‘well, yes if she’s ill or when she was a puppy’ and he really angrily turned on me with ‘well you can’t say anything, your dog has done it, how was I to know’ etc etc and ‘why do you always do this?? Why do you get up and start arguments and have a go at me?’

I answered that I hadn’t, but it was really annoying when I wanted to rest and he couldn’t even just let the dog out without me there to do it. He said he did open the door but he didn’t go out so wtf did I expect him to do? He’s had enough of me having a go at him etc.

Im now sat in my room crying (again) feeling like some awful nagging wife who just has a go at everyone all the time. The kids have gone with him.

I’ve been doing so much work on this and I was getting so much better, but now I’m just thinking it’s all the therapist being nice to me and that really it is me that’s constantly at fault.

Is it? I was really annoyed with him.

The fact that you've had 15 years of it, going to give it another 6 weeks and potentially go with him if he gets the new job is worrying. You sound very much ground down by him and his abusive family.
You need to think about your dc living in this enviroment, leave for their sakes and their mental well being if nothing else. Why should they have to grow up with this?

THIS SEEMS VERY SENSIBLE!

In reality. when you split which sounds as though it will be best for everyone, it is unlikely H will let you just take the kids 250miles away - and the courts would support him in this if he wishes to be an active parent. So you'd either be stuck living in the vicinity of his family, or you'd be leaving your kids with him to move away and be a eow parent.

Moving as a family to the county you'd prefer to live in - and presumably have other connections in? Is a much better plan. I'm assuming from the independant and toys comments you have later primary aged kids? So a great time to move. It gets H away from.family and means if you can stick it out for a while everyone is settled in new area before any custody issue...

Now I'm confused.
He did let the dog out, but it didn't do a anything.
He went to the loo so didn't see it then pee the carpet. Big argument ensued,
He's cleaned it up, but you're now sobbing in the bedroom.
It's the kids I feel for in this drama.

Give it a rest, why are you intent on making excuses for a grown adult who doesn’t understand the basic fact that a dog needs letting out in the morning?

Would you meekly be running about after a man child creating unnecessary mess & stress? If so I think you need to consider why you’d behave like that and whether you should set yourself higher standards.

No you should have just told your kid to go and tell their dad when he got out of the toilet.

No one forced you to get out of bed or to go downstairs.

You are being a martyr for getting out of bed and then moaning about it, when there was no reason to.

Most couples don’t have a go at each other because the dog/cat/child has weed on the floor.

If you’re not happy in this relationship then leave.
But it’s not ok to have a go at your partner because you are feeling stressed.

I agree.

It sounds like a very toxic relationship and unfortunately it’s the kids that suffer the most.

I feel very sorry for the child who told OP about the wee because they must now feel like the argument and OP crying is their fault 🥲

That’s not gaslighting op. It is just dysfunctional . He tried to put the dog out, the dog didn’t go, I’m not really sure why the dog then peed in the house, house trained dogs would go to the door and whine. Are you sure the dog is well?

@MrsHelenHuntingdon

DARVO

Thats what he did and sounds like he always did

OP replay the conversations you have with your therapist about low self esteem this will
help you work through your feelings just now.

You h is not going to be “better “ in 6 weeks sounds like narcassist traits. .He will
need loads of therapy to even start to change. .

Make your plans to leave as this is how this will end .
Stop making yourself miserable. .

He’s an idiot who is never accountable and blames your .
Do some reading on how to deal with a narcasssist . Once you understand how they work you can get tough to it .

(They're possibly moving country not county. Although within GB, iirc an earlier thread.)

also op, as said most house trained dogs will whine to go out and let you know. And if they can’t hold go somewhere discreet, not all over toys.

id be concerned the dog lost control of his bladder, I’d be concerned , and watch him in case he needs the vets. How old is the dog?

This, the use of DARVO and gaslighting on this forum is starting to confuse me. How was him being in the loo when the dog peed and then cleaning it up while op sobbed either?

Nah sorry. We all know how it would’ve been said. There was no need for her to even get out of bed. She should’ve sent her kids back to dad like most people would.

It is his dog who has been an outdoor kennelled working dog all his life, who is now older and getting arthritic, so he’s coming in the house at night.
He’s not ‘house trained’ as such, but as long as you just put him out first thing we never have any mess.

H opened the door, dog didn’t move. It happens. I would take the dog out. He shut the door and then carried on with his morning for another hour until the dog, now desperate crept off for a long, smelly wee.

You are shocking your manipulative in your posts to OP you are trying to get a reaction and upset her .

you sound just like her husband
the blame game is what he and you are doing .
deflection. Never your fault always someone else’s

Yes it’s neither.

id not be focusing on their daft bickering, id be focused on why the dog did this, and didn’t whine to get out, and didn’t go in a discreet place, id be concerned about rhe dog not on fighting each other.

You seem intent on fault and blame... what if it's not about that? What if you don't like the way he does things, and he doesn't like the way you do things?

It seems clear that this isn't a problem with dog pee. There's a job to be done, he feels he's done enough, you feel more needs to be done, to get the job finished. And this is often the case; jobs don't get done to your satisfaction unless you do them yourself. But that doesn't make you right, or him wrong, and you seem to think it does.

He is how he is. Remove the criticism and attempts to get him to understand or change: do you want a relationship with this man, as he is now?

Ok then he made a mistake and this sounds like it’s an old dog who lost control of his bladder suddenly.

Sorry but I think you’re just too blinded by the MN women can do no wrong mentality.

The dog had the back door open - it’s obviously not trained properly or is unwell if it didn’t go out.

husband was having a wee - not like he could’ve stopped the dog through the power of his mind is it

kid told mum - not really the dads fault he was having a wee so child went to mum

mum overreacted by not just sending child back to dad and is now overreacting by sulking and crying in the bedroom. Imagine being the children in this situation? I’ve been in the same where my mum would act like a martyr and explode over nothing when 70% of the time she was the one in the wrong but she would never own it or apologise.

I’ve read OP posts before I recognise her .

The husband and family are horrible
ffs the women has been off work for 5 months
you can tell from her replies she is near broken. .she is trying to pick herself back up .

what he is doing is gaslighting . Op has given one example today .
When you have dealt with people like this then you will know.

This isn’t a nagging wife .

All The moments about ‘but you should have <insert whatever reaction the poster thinks is best>’ doesn’t change the fact this guy didn’t take the dog out.
Actually, I’d even say that even if he had opened the door and the dog didn’t go out, he is still responsible in that, it was obvious the dog would need to very soon. He should have encouraged it, taken it for a walk, left the door opened.
More importantly, he should automatically have started to clean up the mess.

And as far as I’m concerned, you didn’t start the argument. There is no reason why you should just have accepted his lack of responsibility. (And the subsequent deflection etc….).

There are many other ways to react to what happened.
I personally find that waiting a few minutes (or an hour lol) so I am calmer means I’m coming out as less emotional and that makes ME feel better - aka I’m not second guessing myself because I know I put my point calmly and rationally.

I suspect it wouldn’t have a huge difference to his reaction though.

Hardly. You can’t just throw words like manipulative around - maybe google it first. She did come back to me being argumentative it’s quite obvious from all her questions and CAPS - if that’s how she behaves then I feel for the husband. I’m allowed to state my opinion, just as you are. Doing so does NOT make someone manipulative. How ridiculous to even suggest it.

What if you don't like the way he does things, and he doesn't like the way you do things?

It seems clear that this isn't a problem with dog pee. There's a job to be done, he feels he's done enough, you feel more needs to be done, to get the job finished. And this is often the case; jobs don't get done to your satisfaction unless you do them yourself. But that doesn't make you right, or him wrong, and you seem to think it does.

so….I like the carpet to not have a big stain and smell like piss….but this is just my preference?
He won’t be arsed about it so the proper cleaning will fall to me. But I should just suck this up because it’s my choice to want to non-piss stained carpet?

Im genuinely bewildered at these replies. I am all over the place with trying to improve my life and feel better about things, I’m nearly getting there, and now multiple people on this thread are telling me that no, actually I just sound like a nightmare. I must be.

I have worked incredibly hard on my mental state over this last 5 months and come back from the brink of suicide actually. I shouldn’t have posted here.
But then I suppose I need to be told the truth don’t I? I’ve posted honestly and if multiple people respond with ‘you’re horrible’ then I need to take that on board.

Imso confused and I’m so fed up of taking3 steps forward and five steps back.

Thank you for this. I really mean it.

But I think you’re just being kind. Too many on this thread now have said it’s me.

but thank you

He is clearly massively over-sensitive to criticism (even when it’s reasonable and fair) and therefore gets angry and defensive and responds by attacking. This is difficult to live with. It isn’t gaslighting though.

The pair of you sound fundamentally incompatible to be honest. I don’t think this relationship sounds salvageable; you don’t even seem to like each other at this point.

Some posters are being deliberately obtuse.
The dog situation is a snapshot. Something like this probably happens multiple times every day.
DH has a responsibility, doesn’t fulfil what he’s agreed to, leaves OP to sort the consequences out, yells at her for complaining.