Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 12

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

@CinnamonTart i find it helps me to think of DP as I would a teenager going through a difficult stage. Emotionally I don’t think a lot of autistic people (men??) progress past the teenage years. So they don’t see why they aren’t the most important person in the household and should have things their way all the time, don’t have the capacity for empathy. They sulk. They’re quite nasty at times. They are never wrong. They think they’re being got at all the time and act like the victim.

When I frame DP’s behaviour in this way I am able to put it in a box. Unreasonable emotionally stunted teenager. And then I’m able to move past it. I think because I spend my time agonising over things otherwise: why can’t he see how unreasonable he’s being? Surely if I could just get my point across he would understand how unfair he’s being…… and it ties me in knots.

If I just pigeonhole it as unreasonable teenager then I can shrug and say instead: unreasonable wanker! And then I can stop trying to change things.

I dunno. It helps me.

Sending hugs though as this sounds really challenging and miserable. 🫂

@BustyLaRoux I take a very similar approach. It really helps. They can’t be changed, so I change my response and fully accept that it’s not a partnership.

@BustyLaRoux “unreasonable wanker” lol my life’s full of them! I’m slowly loosing my patience with the lot of them. I think I’m the only grown up and that says a lot because I’m also a pain! I usually say to myself you such a dick and move on mentally. I’d really like a partner and not another child to manage.

@BustyLaRoux I get what you're saying, and i have been putting dh in the 3rd child role for years ( even though i didn't realise i was doing it) but, I am so fucking tired of trying to analyse, justify or excuse dh's behaviour. Always thinking how I can 'deal' with him better. What do I need* *to do differently to help him understand without upsetting him, it's not deliberate behaviour, so not his fault, so mustn't be annoyed or angry with him. I'm exhausted really.
I'm absolutely 100% sure dh doesn't think about my feelings or what he could or should be doing differently. He can't read the room in any given situation. He can't read me. 😞

Do some ND become angry at you because they blame you for their feelings because they can’t associate their own feelings to themselves? For example someone being jealous and blaming you for making them jealous instead of realising that the feeling is their own. Does this make sense? Is this called something?

I've just read this entire thread and am so sorry to hear how difficult it has been for so many of you. However, your experiences have shed so much light on what has been going on in my relationship. DH has been diagnosed with ADHD but I think there may be a touch of ASD there too, not sure. Just in terms of such hurtful things that he will say/lack of empathy, an inability to see my point of view and that insistence on being right all the time. Unfortunately after 15 years together we are separating now. It has been such a difficult decision as he has many wonderful qualities (what drew me in at the beginning). Really heartbreaking, with lots of torturing myself if I was doing the right thing or not. But ultimately I feared my health would deteriorate rapidly if I did not take action. I became unable to work due to the constant stress. I am desperate to start healing, but really felt I needed more understanding of him in order to do that. And your posts have answered a lot of my questions. We will continue to be involved with each other as we have children to co-parent, so I really did need some understanding of what the problem was so that I could take better approaches with him. So, in a nutshell, so sorry to hear of all your suffering, but your sharing of your experiences have helped me tremendously. Especially as most people have no understanding of this issue and therapists (I have seen three) are not well versed. I hope you all manage to soldier on and will be able to improve your situations in time.

In your situation, where this sounds like a boyfriend and so an easy to end relationship, my honest advice is that the best way to deal with it is to stop seeing him. Its a pattern that will repeat, so if its something you don't like, the only way to stop the repetition is to stop seeing him.

@WakingUpToReality I feel much the same, these threads really helped me understand my situation better. In some ways it makes me feel more able to understand the dynamic and that H might not be a 'bad person' but also that even though we can't live together we can maybe be friends and co-parent well.

By 'bad person' I mean as in classic angry, abusive, controlling, not because of any ND. I'm autistic myself and am not saying that we are bad! In case that came across as offensive.

Unless you are my MIL then you are ND and just bad! Lol

@BustyLaRoux yes that’s definitely a good way to do it. But I can’t get past the hostile faces and monosyllabic responses (If I’m lucky enough to get one at all) - it makes me feel so shit and stop me wanting to say anything to him as I hate the way his responses make me feel.

If I could get him to smile and say hi, or acknowledge I’ve spoken and be friendly as he is to absolutely everyone else - I think things would improve considerably. Or may be that’s the point. He can’t be because he hates me - and hence all the faces and brush offs.

It’s really hard and I’m not going to pretend the cold shouldering (my DP) and shitty faces (your DH) are easy to ignore. They’re not. I just try and think “stupid unreasonable tosser” rather than trying to find out what’s wrong, or “fix” it or apologise or understand. And if it were a teenager in my house I would just ignore it. And I’d probably be more able to ignore it. But somehow it’s more hurtful when it’s your partner doing it. I totally get it! But if I can just park it under “unreasonable tosser, not my problem” then it helps - a bit.

My DP craves human attention and gets bored of his own company after a while. So I do one of two things. Either I carry on as normal and witter away and smile like I can’t see his stupid miserable sulky face and before long he forgets to sulk. Or I ignore him and am polite but I don’t make eye contact or initiate any conversation. And then he gets lonely and will start being nice again.

Either way I will not be drawn into a conversation about why he’s “upset”. I learnt early on in the relationship not to fall into that trap. It only goes one way and ends up with him blowing something tiny into this huge thing all about his needs being ignored and me always having my own way and poor him and expecting a grovelling apology for all my evil ways…… it’s like a tsunami once it starts. And all because of some minor thing on my part. Maybe I was a bit dismissive or abrupt in response to something he said. Maybe I didn’t do anything at all and he has imagined some heinous crime like criticising him for such and such and actually he’s imagined it (again). Nothing that would warrant hours of sulking. Better to ignore it than give it any credence I find.

I forget now what crime you’ve committed @CinnamonTart ! Was it taking him to a party and wanting to speak to him whilst there? If so this definitely falls into the teenage unreasonable tosser category. And I’d be tempted to ignore this behaviour completely. Hard as it is to ignore when someone is mooning their twatty sulking death stare at you. Ridiculous!

I’m sure they do. But I wonder how much of this behaviour applies to the general population.

It’s a very self aware person who can say “I feel jealous right now but I’m aware you haven’t done anything at all to make me feel that way and in fact this is entirely about my own insecurities”

I’m not saying it’s impossible. I’m sure there are plenty of people who can and would say that.

But largely I suspect most people in that jealous frame of mind would say “I feel jealous because you practically ignored me when we were with [name of person]. I may as well not have been there! You made me feel really shitty!”

And I think that would be applicable to ND and NT people. Lots of us don’t own our feelings. But yes probably more common in ND people with poor insight.

If I could get him to smile and say hi, or acknowledge I’ve spoken and be friendly as he is to absolutely everyone else - I think things would improve considerably. Or may be that’s the point. He can’t be because he hates me - and hence all the faces and brush offs.

My experience with that is that dh is truly masking when he is smiling and friendly ‘to everyone else’. He is only genuinely smiling etc… when he is seeing his friends who have the same special interest. With his mum and dc2 too. Somehow with dc1 (as long as they are talking about his special interest).

With me, he is on high alert all the time. If something has happened, he is easily triggered (not always linked with me either!) and goes into high anxiety mode/meltdowns and in turns it triggers his own coping mechanisms aka silence (he is fully avoidant too).
Nowdays I think it’s because he both feels ‘comfortable’ enough to be himself and not mask whilst finding me his biggest trigger for anxiety (because I’m putting demands on him by the simple fact we live together and are a ‘couple’)

What works best is to ignore it and act as if nothing was happening.

But it’s hugely hurtful because, even if I ‘know’ this is what is happening, it still screams at me ‘you dont exist, you don’t matter’ (and I don’t think I do at that time iyswim).
I personally have reached some level of indifference to it all. It’s not really helpful though. Or healthy.

This is very interesting and I can relate to this with my daughter. I am the one she is most nervous around because I’m the one who makes demands of her so her feelings about me are mixed. I often feel she doesn’t love me because I make her triggered. Her dad who she goes to every other weekend does nothing. He won’t brush her hair or teeth and gives her whatever she wants. He is only making his own life easier because he can’t be bothered to parent but she feels more at ease. But then when she talks about it she is conflicted because she knows that he just isn’t bothering but she hates me when I brush hair or ask her to get ready for school. I can’t imagine how it must feel to know you are supposed to love your mum but also be completely triggered by her. So complicated. I don’t understand why our partners want to be with people who trigger them all the time?!

@Rainbow03 I think they want someone around who belongs to them, but the demand of being in a relationship (and having anything expected of them) is triggering. They want someone to be for them and the fact that we are also for ourselves, for our children, for the world, and may have expectations about partnership that aren’t exclusively about facilitating our partners’ needs and disappearing when we’re not required, is what triggers them.

My DH would 100% be happier living with some sort of robot that could dispense sex and food and pay his bills and bring him things from the shop.

@Rainbow03 does your dd truly hate YOU or does she hate the hair brushing and you by association (because you’re the one to brush her hair)?

I don’t understand why our partners want to be with people who trigger them all the time?!

Im not sure either tbh.
I suspect that with my dh there is a mix of things incl feeling he is the one at fault and a feeling of duty.
And if the guy in that video above is right, he is also able to get his own needs met whereas I’m not (because my needs include social and emotional connexion with my partner). So overall, despite the anxiety, meltdowns etc… he is fairing better.
Another reason is that dh has always spent a lot of time away from home. 7 days out of 14 when the dcs were little, every single weekends for the last 3 years etc… He has engineered his life to make it copable. Whereas I’ve had no other choice but to fit around him to keep all the plates spinning (and struggled, surprise, surprise)

I’m just realising that, for half of our marriage, dh has been escaping from home life as much as he could 😳😳😳

my sister in law has a partner who spends as much time as possible at work, I think it’s just become normal. I am lucky in that my partner is here an awful lot and he does do his fair share. He did half the night feeds and pulls his weight. It’s just he does most of it looking like a deer in headlights, life seems to “surprise him”. I often say to him didnt you think life would be like this. He has no idea. He still thinks he can hoard hundreds of projects that now with 2 kids and me he has absolutely no time for but he keeps on collecting not fully comprehending.

I suspect she doesn’t like the action and the feeling. She is absolutely lost in her feelings, especially sensory ones, they trigger her into fight mode and then she says whatever nasty things that come into her head. At the moment she can’t seem to differentiate the feeling from who made her feel it so she mad at the person, then herself for being mean.

Thread’s getting full @Daftasabroom x

Feeling irrationally (?) cross!

I mostly work at home. I have two note pads on the go. One on my desk and one that is in my bag and comes to work with me. Half noticed there wasn’t one in my bag anymore but thought it would be in the pile of papers on my desk. Anyway I can see DP’s workspace is starting to spread across the kitchen again. The armchair is full of his papers (again). The table is half full of stuff and now a dining chair has papers on it as well. I go to pick up the stuff on the dining chair and the pad falls open and I see my own handwriting. I realise it’s the pad I was missing. I can see he’s been using it! Pages and pages of his handwriting. He’s just commandeered my pad and must have taken it off my desk a few weeks ago. I don’t mind someone scribbling down something on it if they are on the phone and need to write something quickly. Or tearing a blank page out. But he’s just taken it and started using it.

I need it back so I tear his pages out in case he needs them but I accidentally don’t rip in a straight line and I have torn out a couple of words on one page. I really want to say to him that I’m unhappy he’s done this. This is my work pad. It has notes about vulnerable families on there. He can’t just take it and start using it as his own. I need it.

The trouble is he will of course feel criticised because (a) I won’t be able to keep my annoyance out of my voice and (b) I AM criticising him!!! He shouldn’t have done that and I am annoyed about it. But I can’t express annoyance as he will overreact (instead of just saying sorry). He will then start saying I’ve ripped his notes and he can’t see what he wrote on several of the pages (because he likes to exaggerate and inflate things) and how it’s of vital importance and I’ve fucked up his work etc etc. (I’ve looked to see what I’ve ripped and it is only one word and a number and doesn’t appear to be a work thing but a note he made when on the phone to the doctor. It doesn’t look important). But I know him. Instead of saying sorry he will deflect and exaggerate and fly off the handle and find a way to blame me to avoid any focus on him being in the wrong. In fact I am almost tempted to say I’m unhappy at what he’s done just to see how predictable all this is!!!

I can kind of see how anyone (ND or NT) might thoughtlessly see a pad and write on it and then forget it might be someone else’s. That’s not really an ND issue. (Though the idea I would just take one of his pads is unthinkable). I think it’s the fact I know his reaction will be very typical of a certain type of autistic person who cannot stand to be criticised and will react with anger and deflection and make up a reason why they’re the ones who’ve been wronged in actual fact!!! I think this is what’s really gets my goat. That if it were someone else I could say “you’ve taken my pad. That’s not Ok. I was looking for it”. And they would just say sorry and that would be the end of it. But I know this can never happen with DP and I think that’s what’s made me feel so annoyed about it. Would this annoy you? Am I being over the top? Shall I find a way to say something or just leave it and sigh inwardly in order to avoid an argument?

@SpecialMangeTout My dh has been away for half our marriage too. He does work away, which means physically not here. Even when he is here though, he is not present. He leaves his toilet bag by the sink, he can't remember where things in the house are. He doesn't seem to slot into his place, always feels awkward as he doesn't join in to family dynamics, just hovers around the periphery. Noticing it more now as the kids have started pointing things out. I feel both sadness and anger for him and towards him. Its all a bit shit isn't it?

That's really thoughtless of him Busty, but sadly not an unsurprising thing to do from what you've said. I would simply take the notebook back and leave his notes pinned under something and say nothing. Don't give yourself the stress, you know you may as well just go and hit your head against a brick wall for 5 minutes it will have the same effect. As much as I appreciate letting it go must be bloody irritating because yet again his behaviour has impacted you in a small niggly way you will feel worse for longer if you get into trying to make him understand when he just can't/won't.