Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 12

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

That's quite a judgement on the marriage. In contrast I would imagine a lot of other scenarios such as the person was being so direct because they were emotionally lacking in relational intelligence and couldn't find the words to say it privately so it had built up to the point of no compassion for their spouse at all, or because they were scared of the outcome if saying it at home where they could be convinced to try again or because they wanted to be able to say to their children/parents that they "tried" couple's counselling. It would really hurt me to have someone do that to me and then have the therapist judge me as not listening to the point where my husband needed to blindside me.

I actually think it's perfectly acceptable to go to Relate with the goal, which I would express to him beforehand, of talking about how to make the separation as amicable as possible. Relate say this is one of their core functions on their website.

You are projecting. My comment was made to a poster who is in exactly this position: possibly forced to pretend to go to couple’s counseling because her DP won’t accept her decision. I wanted to reassure her that therapists have seen it all. No one is obligated to do couples counseling with a spouse they have decided to leave. The therapist isn’t going to judge.

Yes I would completely agree with this. Counsellors who are not trained in recognising and working with autism can be very easily duped into thinking the partner with autism is simply someone who isn’t having their reasonable needs met. It becomes all about them. You’ve nothing to gain by doing Relate. Again this is about your DH’s needs and not yours @LittleSwede. But you already know that.

My friend left her H a month before lockdown and consequently they were stuck in the house together for a year. She moved into the spare room and it worked ok. Her H is also likely Autistic and I think the year helped him come to terms with it so that when she did actually move out, he was kind of ready for it. Though like your H was very sad and made sure the kids knew how sad he was! 😞 I think possibly yes emotional manipulation but also probably just no filter: I am sad and everyone needs to be told.

Just to add @LittleSwede my friend was very calm and very strong and did not waiver. Plus it was lockdown so she has no choice! I’m not saying that you should stay and house share. Move out if you can. Obviously that would be preferable. He’s definitely trying the all the tactics. Stay strong! X

If it was about how to separate and co-parent well then yes, that would make sense. Unfortunately the aim is probably to save the marriage and I don't want to get drawn into that for various reasons. There is a real chance that as an autistic person I'll either; fawn and people please resulting in me agreeing to give H another chance. Or I'll stand firm which will involve me emotionally detaching which will involve a sort of shut down, so I'll look to the NT therapist like am uncommunicative, cold, distant, obstinate petson, when in fact I'm screaming on the inside. Or, I'll end up spilling out all the reasons why I can't go on with will not obly upset H but also offend him and make everything less amicable.

Ao in this case I sadly think relate might not be the way but I understand where you are coming from and in a different situation it could make perfect sense.

I have to agree. I have ADHD and I can’t stand feeling uncomfortable, I will unconsciously do something I don’t want to to stop the situation. I’m appalling at getting my point across and I probably won’t make sense. I can imagine it becoming a confusing mess that would send me into some sort of shut down also, or I’ll end up in days of overwhelming emotion. I can feel the emotion in the room and the frustration of people of me. I’ll get convinced it’s me being the problem.

Thank you, it probably is partly due to no filter, as well as being very sad and having no one to turn to so DD and I get it. Which is why I will gently try to encourage individual counselling or therapy as I think it might help him to process and accept.

If H can accept and I can distance myself enough it might be that we house share whilst I get myself sorted and he has time to accept. It all depends on how he acts in the next few weeks and if I can find a way to not get drawn in. Was looking at long term stays at AirBnB yesterday, pricey but if things get really tough an option for very short term!

Yes absolutely! Story of my life which has kept in many less than ideal situations. I have worked so hard on building boundaries and understanding why I people please but I am still not quite 'there' and could so easily get sucked in again.

Signing in as this may be relevant, not sure yet

I wish I could just turn my emotions off. They have just been more harmful then use, they are a nuisance. They’ve only made me ill.

You don't need to justify yourself to me or anyone. Was just saying it's OK to do whatever YOU think is best. Rather than telling you not to go.

Thank you, was trying to explain and rationalise my thoughts there a bit.

That’s the thing with opinions, they aren’t facts. Ive had that argument in threads so many times. Anyone’s opinion is only based on one persons experience who’ve also only lived once. I think we worry because we’ve lived a life where other people have reacted negatively to our opinions and needs or dismissed them to the point we feel we have to justify ourselves when in actual fact we have free will to do what the hell we want and they need to accept it full stop. Lots of people are extremely offended when you don’t take their opinion as fact.

@LittleSwede Based on my own experience, I'd say that the therapy thing will not only be about trying to get you to stay, but 'fixing' you so that you don't want to leave. I was fortunate that H inadvertently chose a therapist who is an autism specialist and he would get very annoyed that she wasn't allowing him to blame everything on me. Several times he yelled at me in front of her and she had to keep telling him that he was 'raising his voice and coming across as aggressive'. She tended to focus on me and ignore him because he wasn't engaging other than to jump in defensively or claim I hadn't told him things.

We had so many heated arguments where he would repeatedly say I hadn't told him my reasons for wanting to split up, thanks to these threads, I now realise that he simply can't relate to my experience and therefore cannot accept my reasons because he doesn't understand them, so no matter what or how I said it, he would continue to say I hadn't told him my reasons.

As PPs have said, it's as though they have no concept that we exist outside of their perception of us, to use a gaming analogy, we are non-playable characters and should only behave according to the rules of the game (as they understand them). There is no mechanism in their mind which allows for us to be otherwise.

Thinking on that gaming analogy, our 'acting out' (e.g. having our own thoughts and feelings, being physically unwell) is perhaps seen as a small glitch or a bug in the game - a bit of an annoyance, but the game is still playable. But our leaving would change the game entirely, probably making it unplayable (or at least it would feel that way) and that is something that needs to be 'fixed'. It's not a perfect analogy, but I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of autistic people are gamers (including my H).

As PPs have said, it's as though they have no concept that we exist outside of their perception of us, to use a gaming analogy, we are non-playable characters

A non-player character. Gosh. That may be a disturbingly accurate description.

Wow that sounds quite a lot like our situation, despite me having spent the last 2 years raising the same issues over and over and explaining why I can't continue, yet when I did then eventually say I wanted to separate he says doesn't know why and that I NEED to tell him why. He cannot comprehend my reasoning and will also blame stress and bereavement for all his behaviours.

Apparently I need to explain to him, in front of the Relate counsellor, my exact reasons so he can understand and change his ways. I suspect he is hoping the therapist will say I am wrong or make me out to be unreasonable. When I said his own bereavement therapist questioned his throwing of things in frustration he claimed he's never thrown anything directly at me or DD, yet I explained that this is still intimidating.

He's pressuring me again about Relate and I've ended up having to say that I don't want to sit and list my reasons as it will hurt him. In the end I also explained that some of his behaviours are in fact abusive, even if he doesn't mean for them to be and that joint counselling is not recommended in those situations. Still. Not. Sinking. In.

Maybe the gaming analogy makes sense x

We're all NPCs 🤣

This is my experience too. I can explain something over and over for years and years, literally, and he will claim no knowledge of this. Its clear he means it. Its either the alexithymia - which often causes poor autobiographical memory - or just that there are no thoughts or feelings other than his, so anything I say cannot become real to him and so isn't retained as memory.

It's probably something along those lines and I've come to accept that he can't see or comprehend what I have been trying to address. So I stopped bringing things up, which and decided to work on how I could leave and gain the courage to break up. The advice from.my therapist was to just say it's not working, rather than blaming him, which made sense. Until he then wouldn't accept this as an enough reason.

@LittleSwede does it feel possible to remember for yourself that it is not and can’t be your responsibility to make him understand if he can’t? And that whether or not he accepts your reasons are enough, you still have the right to end the marriage? That either party always has this right?

I wonder if there is a way you can convey this firmly & compassionately - I get that it is really hard not understanding why this is happening. I’ve done what I can to explain, but unfortunately I can’t understand it for you; it may just take time. I won’t go to relate, but maybe they or another therapist can help you process this separation.

(Of course, who knows how this will come out the other end of his internal emotional translator - similar extremely carefully thought out, nuanced and compassionate statements to my DH through the years have been heard either as ‘OK fine I’ll stay with you, everything's great’ or ‘you’re a worthless piece of shit and I hate your guts’ depending on his mood.)

It must be so hard navigating this while sharing space & trying not to go mad.

Sorry to be banging on about writing it down, but have you tried that @LittleSwede? Then at least you could say ‘look back at my letter’ if he keeps on asking you.

Thank you @Bunnyhair that phrasing sounds kind and gentle yet firm enough to get the point across.

I might try a letter next @MySocksAreDotty H has said he doesn't want anything innwrong, when I suggested it previously, but I might have to.