Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 12

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

How frustrating Maroon, since these comments can also sap the small joys of doing these things 💐 I agree w Busty that a ‘go-to’ phrase is useful.

Oh dear. Holiday was going so well! And then DP had one of his meltdowns (which thanks to this group is how I know understand them).

We went out on a boat. His special interest (one of them!) is fishing. He throws out a line and asks me to take the wheel. I’ve never steered a boat before. I’m topless sunbathing! But I don’t really have a choice and after being shouted at that I was doing it wrong (errrr I have never done this before and he just sprang it on me) I got the hang of it and was able to steer us for about half an hour while he fished. He kept saying he would bring the line in in five minutes. Then didn’t. Then said in a minute. Then didn’t.

We were getting close to the harbour now so I gave him a warning that I would need him to take over shortly as I didn’t want to sail into the harbour with my top off! He said a few more minutes, yep yep. We turn a corner and there is another boat. I say argh! Quick, I need to get my
top on now, here take the wheel. He says “I’ll just need to pull this line in”. I am irked. He’s been saying he’ll bring it in for about 20 minutes. I foresaw this and gave him ample warning and he obviously just prioritised his special interest over my wishes. I reply “I thought you were bringing that in five minutes ago!” And he gets annoyed and says HE would rather I flash that man than this line get caught up in the motor. (Oh you would rather that would YOU??! And what about what I want!) so I say “this is exactly what I didn’t want to happen!”

Well all Hell breaks loose. He starts shouting “UNHELPFUL COMMENT!!! THAT WAS AN UNHELPFUL COMMENT!!!!” At me about twelve times. I under stand he must feel criticised. But I am annoyed with him. And rightly so as he has ignored my wishes and left me exposed and embarrassed and then told me he would rather I flash someone than his line get caught, etc. no thought for my wishes or feelings at all. I’m a little annoyed at this point. But he cannot cope with me ever being annoyed at him and it just caused a massive meltdown. He starts telling that I need to stop being a cunt!!! Over and over at me. (My abusive exDH used to call me that and I hate it. DP knows this but he keeps shouting that I should stop being a cunt). I stay calm. I say “that’s a mysogenistic comment and completely uncalled for”, but he just keeps yelling and yelling that I should stop being a cunt then. (At this point all I’ve said is “this is exactly what I didn’t want to happen” that’s it. That’s all I’ve said! But of course he feels criticised and cannot cope).

He sails is in for the last five minutes. I get dressed and we get off the boat. Then he storms off and leaves me with three of the four big bags to carry. I am in a lot of pain from an injury and the boat ride has not been comfortable. He knows this. But off he storms and I am left walking for 15 minutes home with a bag cutting into my fingers, in the boiling heat, upset and in pain. I just want to get into the apartment.

I get home and he isn’t there. He has the keys. I can’t get in. I message for him to come home and ask where he is. Of course he’s gone to a bar (special interest: drinking!) and left me unable to get in. He says for me to come and meet him in the bar. (I really don’t want to!) Then a man starts shouting at me in Italian all about how we have flooded the apartment by leaving our shower on all day (we didn’t!) and how water has been pouring into the street for hours. I don’t speak Italian. But I understand what he’s saying. My stress levels are through the roof now. I‘m trying to explain we didn’t leave the shower on. I’m texting the owner. I’m texting DP all while this man is shouting at me. DP just replies “not our fault. Contact the owner”. and just leaves me there!! I am asking him to please come now and let me in!!!! He just keeps telling me to contact the owner! (I have!!!). Eventually he begrudgingly says fine he is coming now.

The owner replies and doesn’t know anything about it. The man eventually goes away. I just want to get in the apartment and see if there is any damage to our things. Ten minutes have gone by. I have really had enough by now. DP is still in the bar (I can see his location). I say that’s it, I’ve had enough: He ignored my request when I asked him to sort out taking the wheel. Even though I gave him plenty of warning. He left me exposed and humiliated and then got angry with me. He verbally abused me for no reason. He stormed off and left me carrying all our bags while he went to a bar. I am dealing with an angry Italian man. I am in pain. I am hot. I am in tears. I JUST WANT TO GET IN THE FUCKING APARTMENT!!!!!

He flips out again and says he will come now!!!! Turns up five minutes later shouting and swearing that I should have called the fucking owner and it’s not our problem etc etc. Let’s me in. Then storms off again.

I message him later and say how upset I am. He says well he apologised earlier (for shouting, not for anything else though!) and that should be the end of it and I should move on now. I say this shows a complete disregard for me and my feelings. How he hasn’t recognised how he made me feel at all. If he had just said sorry when he hadn’t brought the line in and grabbed my top for me. That would have been the end of it. Instead he’s lost his shit at me and then made it worse and worse and worse. And a not very genuine “I said I was sorry for shouting” doesn’t really cut the mustard!!!!!

I then got a message telling me his feelings were being ignored as usual and how it was all about me. As per usual.

I am just speechless actually. I‘m not imaging how bad this was, am I? Is this classic autistic behaviour? Should I be more understanding? The whole special interest focus. Prioritising his wishes over mine. The lack of any empathy. The aggressive meltdown in the face of criticism (deserved criticism!). The storming off. The tick box apology. The need for us to just move on rather than discuss it, and being annoyed I can’t just move on like him. Making it all about him but unable to see it and somehow saying I had made it all about me. I stayed calm when he shouted at me. I dealt with the shouty man. I called the owner. I only lost my cool when he refused to come home and let me in! Honestly this has been such a low point. I don’t know what I could have done differently. Perhaps not steering the boat topless…. I was sunbathing though and he sprung it on me.

Sorry I know this is very long. Does anyone relate to this kind of thing? A DP with a complete lack of focus on anythjng but themselves and a massively aggressive response when they screw up!! Because they cannot be blamed for anything ever!!!!

@BustyLaRoux Does anyone relate to this kind of thing? A DP with a complete lack of focus on anythjng but themselves and a massively aggressive response when they screw up!! Because they cannot be blamed for anything ever!!!!
I totally relate to this. I was married to a man exactly like this. You need to end the relationship. He will not change. He will get even worse as he ages. You and your children are abused by him.

Oh gosh that sounds awful Busty. I’m so sorry to hear. Where there may be elements of ASD at play here in his perceptions and responses to the situation, your partner is just being a massively unreasonable person. There’s so much horrible sexism in calling you a c*, for example. I’d struggle to get over that to be honest. I really feel for you, nobody deserves to be treated that way 💐

@BustyLaRoux that’s beyond ASD in my eyes but regardless it’s just beyond acceptable and who gives a shit about intention it’s just bloody abusive. You can’t be expected to live like this.

No. Just NO to the entire experience you just had. This experience us shocking. What stops you from leaving?

I honestly can’t remember right now 😞

I hope you will find the strength to leave.

I am married to someone on the autism spectrum. It's often hard to know how to navigate around limitations and differences. There's no context I can imagine where what you experienced would be in any way acceptable from anyone.

It's frustrating, right? I do have a collection of go-to phrases. Usually "well I like it" or "it's a small issue it doesn't really matter" or even "ok then". Best case scenario is she says something like "well you're wrong" and lets it go, worst case scenario is I'm treated to a full-blown tantrum where she rants and then cries about how there is a right and wrong way to do things.

Just now I bought some Thai pineapple fried rice for MYSELF for lunch. She was having lasagna so she literally already had her own food. She took one look at my food and told me that fruits on anything savoury is disgusting and is just wrong. Usually I don't engage with her food criticisms but it's been a rough few days and I said who are you to tell Thai people they can't have pineapple fried rice?

Bloody lunch hour was then ruined because to her fruits are a snack or dessert and she's ranting and borderline yelling about how it's wrong wrong wrong. 🙄

@BustyLaRoux 🫂 Sending you a big hug. I can't say anything you don't already know about your relationship. Sorry he is being such an arsehole, you don't deserve to be spoken to or treated like that.
At least he knows how to ruin a perfectly enjoyable day out. In this instance DH is definitely for Dick Head.

I'm sorry you had this experience, Busty. And just to say, your tracking back to see where things might have ended differently is so sad, because at every turn, it would likely have gone wrong. And of course you hopped to it when called on to steer the boat, despite being topless; could you really have said 'no' without consequence? When corralled as an accessory through the 'special interest funnell' or as a help-meet in a 'planned project', there is rarely any factoring in of the possibility of disagreement or non-compliance.
Being put in impossible situations such as the ones you describe here are basic precursors for PTSD. The possibility of a) a meltdown on the one hand vs b) the other unpleasant / dangerous / humiliating scenario on the other hand is highly stressful, but you know you're going to get one or the other. And then be blamed for either a) causing the meltdown or b) being stupid for caring / worrying / feeling bad about the other thing. So you can't win. Nor discuss it, as the expectation is that you just 'move on' as you have already explained that you are accustomed to doing.
I'm in the aftermath of a similar interaction earlier (although not on that scale) so empathise strongly. I chose to brave the inevitable meltdown in the interest of my own integrity, but will now have to suffer the consequence (silent, 'hurt' sulking) of having 'caused' a dysregulated state.
So sorry.

Sorry to hear your experiences @BustyLaRoux - that sounds absolutely horrible . Is he likely to calm down and realise he has been an a'hole at some point? I know people say we should leave, but you can become acclimatised to this type of behaviour - not saying you 'should' or that it wouldn't be better to leave, just that I understand that it doesn't feel so clear cut when you're in the middle of it... I think I would be able to tolerate the flouncing and meltdowns etc. (well, I know I would, because I have)... but think I would draw the line at the verbal abuse... Like I said, you don't know unless you're in it though. They must have some good qualities, or we wouldn't have married them in the first place, but it's hard to see past the difficulties when they behave like this and perhaps we shouldn't...

I’m finding it hard to understand the swearing, what is ND about someone repeatedly calling someone a c**t?

Gosh that would piss me off!! I think I would end up having to lose my shit and shout “NOT WRONG! JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE IT DOESN’T MEAN ITS WRONG!!!!!!” Or at least I’d tell her to pipe down as I’m not interested in hearing how “wrong” it is. My dad seems to enjoy getting himself riled up like this, but I think he thinks it’s humorous in some way. He is never happier than when he’s ranting away about how “wrong” people who do things differently to him are. Bizarrely he is very much in his element. Is there any possibility she isn’t actually annoyed but revelling in the criticism of others and actually enjoying herself? (Not that it makes it any easier to listen to. Still bloody annoying!)

Yes I was expecting to sunbathe and read my magazine! Not expecting to steer a boat! I mean it was quite fun in the end, even though I got it “wrong” to begin with and he shouted at me that I was going to tangle up his stupid fishing line. For which he did apologise straight away. So all was fine at that point. I probably could have said I’d had enough after ten minutes but it was quite enjoyable so I stuck it out and let him do his stupid special hobby. But I made it clear I would need to put my top on before we got too close to the harbour. He got carried away and kept saying he was going to wind the line in, but I could see he was disappointed not to have caught anything and so he obviously just thought a few more minutes and ignored my request. Then I think he knew he’d screwed up and there is nothing more dangerous than my DP knowing he’s in the wrong and being told so. It’s a red rag to the bull. Like the other day when he told me off for making too much noise when I put the plates away and I said well I can’t reach the shelf anymore as your paperwork is all over the chair and I don’t want to stand on it and squash it. He went ballistic that time and picked up all his paperwork and threw it across the room. That time I didn’t react. And within ten minutes he came back and said he was very sorry and shouldn’t have reacted like that and was annoyed at himself as I had asked him to put that papers away and he hadn’t done it. He recognised his shame and his silly reaction and was apologetic for all the right reasons without me having to say a word. This time I realise he had been drinking as I found 3 empty beer bottles when I was sorting through the bags later on. He used to bellow “unhelpful comment” at me all the time early on in our relationship. He doesn’t do it so much any more. But probably because I’ve learned better how not to set him off. He cannot abide being told “told you so”. It’s the worst thing that can be said. I suppose perhaps me saying “this is exactly what I didn’t want to happen” is akin to me saying told you so. Maybe that’s what he thought anyway. Maybe that’s how he justifies the appalling tirade he then subjected me to. I’ll bet if I asked him now he would maintain that as I made such a told you so/unhelpful comment that I made him angry and although he shouldn’t have shouted or called me a cunt, he was within his rights to feel angry. That’s what he would say.

Except I was annoyed with him! I was right to be annoyed. He ignored my wishes, prioritised his stupid special interest, and left me feeling exposed and humiliated. But he won’t tolerate me being annoyed with him. He literally cannot cope with people being annoyed with him. It makes him angry and defensive every time and he won’t accept he is in the wrong (even though I think he knows deep down he is. And in some way I think that makes it even harder for him
to cope with).

So I could have said nothing and ignored that he had ignored my wishes and none of this would have happened. Maybe I said it knowing I would get the meltdown. Maybe I said it in the moment as I was embarrassed and annoyed. Maybe, as he is no stranger to telling me off whenever I annoy him (often!), I thought he should have a taste of his medicine. Who knows. Perhaps I chose the meltdown too. I no longer care.

@BustyLaRoux you can tie yourself in knots wondering if you had done X, then you’d have avoided a meltdown etc…

But the reality is that you are human. You can’t plan fir all eventualities, fur all your DH reactions, for all his trigger points (even though you already do a lot of that!)

You haven’t chosen to be insulted and shouted at.
It’s pretty normal to want to stand your ground some times too. I’d say it’s actually pretty healthy.

I agree you can’t pre plan your emotions for events that haven’t happened. We can all unpick with hindsight but that’s not how it works, unless you have a Time Machine. You end up with behaviours like thinking you can read rooms and somehow predict things coming but really that’s just an over active nervous system.

Your mistake—and it is a mistake—is tolerating this abuse and protecting him from feelings if shame and anger. So fucking what if he has a hard time feeling criticized? That is his problem to solve. if you gad begin as you needed to go on he would have either learned to manage his emotions, to tolerate yours, or left to abuse someone else.

If he doesn’t like it when people point out mistakes he’d better resolve to be perfect. Or he could try to be so loving, generous, and forgiving that women will fight to spend time with him even when he leaves the seat up, or leaves his papers on the chair.

If people want special treatment and cosseting they can learn to be massively charming and adorable or gtfo.

He does seem to set incredibly high standards for himself. He over promises and then naturally often under delivers which I guess gives him a sense of perpetual shame. He often says “I’ve failed” about himself in situations where I can’t imagine anyone else using that language or viewing things in those terms. I suppose he is on high alert for others noticing he’s failed and pointing it out. When he already knows and is annoyed with himself. He doesn’t deal with it well at all. He makes excuses and gets angry. He also has massive task avoidance but I think because he sets a ridiculously high standard and then it’s too much for him so he procrastinates and avoids doing anything, finding things he would rather do instead and then walking around feeling like a failure, almost waiting for someone else to mention it and then exploding when they do. Obviously he doesn’t explode at work, or at his solicitor when they get a bit frustrated that he’s not sent them the documents they asked for despite assurances he would. Then he just makes a ton of excuses. But if I say “you’ve missed the deadline for your solicitor. You said you’d send that stuff on Friday and it’s Monday now” he would get angry at me or make excuses about how it wasn’t his fault. Or both. He can obviously control his rage, just not with me. I realise this is abusive behaviour. And yes, of course it is my mistake to tolerate it. I wish it were as easy as LTB but life just isn’t that black and white.

Do you have time to go to something once a week? Chatting to people once a week is good, as you start to build up real knowledge about each others lives.

Otherwise an online group, if you can’t manage real life.

Thank you MeTooOP I joined a patient group for one of my health conditions so that is something new to try.

Busty drinking always makes things so much worse. Could you read the riot act around that at least for now, just to keep yourself safe while you are reflecting on the future?

Busty that’s a great insight you have developed. Do you think targeting the unrealistic expectations would help ease the explosive anger?

To be honest I can see this pattern in my DC, which gives me motivation to try to act on it now.

I’m thinking there are actually so many resources to tackle perfectionism that I’ve used myself. Plus lots of self-compassion resources. Is your partner AuDHD at all? Do you think he’d consider doing this kind of work, even via a workbook at home rather than therapy?

My therapist said I criticise him (to her) and when she tries to explore with me my feelings, that I jump to his defence. I can see why she thinks that. I suppose on some level I have resolved to stay with him for a myriad reasons and I need to look for the good and try to understand the bad. Where it comes from, how to manage it, what I can change….. @pikkumyy77 you are completely right that it is a mistake to tolerate this behaviour. I don’t know what “tolerate” means. Is staying with him tolerating it? If I make my thoughts on his behaviour clear, is that tolerating it? If I issue an ultimatum (as I have done a couple of times now), is that tolerating? (These are questions for me, rhetorical, rather than aimed at anyone). I have spent a few days perusing the rental websites back home and I am wondering what I should do. It is so hard because I am generally treated with kindness. He carries my handbag because I sunburnt my shoulder. In fact he carries all the bags. He chooses a restaurant based on what I would like and he will call in advance to make sure we have the optimum view and he will sit facing a wall to make sure I have the best seat. He will consider that it’s too noisy for me over here and will have the staff move us to somewhere warmer, less noisy, etc because I get cold easily and my hearing is bad. He is always thinking about how to ensure I am relaxed and happy. He does the shopping and the packing while I sit and read my book….. I offer (half heartedly to do some chores but he just laughs and says not to be silly and stay where I am and would I like a nice snack or a coffee…) Before this holiday I was in a huge amount of pain. So much it brought me to tears and I felt sick from the pain. I didn’t think I’d be able to travel or enjoy a holiday. And he said then we don’t go. It’s fine. It’s just money. We will go when you’re feeling better. (I know how much he was looking forward to this holiday and it would have killed him not to go, but at no point did he make me feel bad or put any pressure on me to go). I contrast all this to my marriage to exDH. He would never carry all the bags. We would share them out. He wouldn’t ever carry a woman’s handbag. He would have told me to fucking man up and stop making a fuss and would absolutely have pressured me to go on holiday even if I was incredible pain as he wouldn’t be prepared to miss out on his holiday for me and would have assumed I was just making a huge fuss about nothing. He never brought me so much as a coffee. And there would be zero chance of him calling a restaurant to make sure I had the best seat. In fact he wouldn’t have called a restaurant full stop as he didn’t like using the phone and would always make me do all the calls even though I am deaf and really struggle using the phone. DP never makes me use the phone as he knows I find it difficult. If I had been cold in a restaurant with my exDH he would have told me we weren’t moving seats and just suck it up.

Coming from such a terrible marriage I am enjoying being put first and cared for. But it comes at a price. Is it a price I am OK with? Usually yes. But incidents like the one I described make me question my decision. Like I say, it’s not black and white. LTB is easy to say, less easy to do….

I think I’m finding my adult partner relationship so difficult partly because the ND DC relationship is so pressurised around the DC needs. I feel like I have given everything I have to them already. I don’t want to have to feel like a carer to an ND adult as well. The loneliness and fear for the future of that is a lot to manage.