Am I expecting too much from men?

[Gabitule]

Brace yourself for a long one 😬. Sorry, I’m upset 😞.

I am in my early 40s and have been single for much of my adult life (although I have dated A LOT). One would say that I am too fussy but I just think that I just have reasonably high standards (but I never expect more than I give).

For the last few years I've been mostly using online dating apps with disastrous results (I won't go into details here but those who use online dating probably know what I mean). Aprox 3.5 months ago I met a guy who ticks most of my boxes (probably more than any other guy before) and who claims that I tick his :). He is obviously not perfect but nor am I so I can live with certain differences. The only thing that really concerns me is that we don't seem to speak the same language. I think that there are some issues with his emotional awareness/ intelligence but he tells me that none of his exes complained about this before...so I'm starting to wonder if the issue is in fact with me and my unreasonable expectations...

To give you little examples - when we met, from the first date actually, he would book a restaurant for us on a particular evening and only after he booked it he would ask me if I was free that evening. If I wasn't, it meant that he had to cancel the restaurant. I can't for the life of me understand why he wouldn't ask if I was free before booking the restaurant. This happened more than once.

He tells me that he never cries. Not at movies, not at sad stories, nothing. He says that he feels the pain inside but doesn't need to cry. I personally find that weird.

He tells me how much he adores me and how serious he is about a future with me but I don't feel the emotion behind his words. I often wonder if he chose me with his head because I tick so many of his boxes, and not with his heart. He insists that he feels immense passion... I can see that he is desperate to convince me... There's a disconnect...

And now onto the troubles that make me sad...

I have been unwell earlier in the week. He texted me throughout the day on Monday (not texting was also an issue in the beginning but he got better at it). On Tuesday -nothing. My friends texted me in the morning to check how I was feeling but he didn't. Just before lunchtime I texted him to ask why he wasn't checking on me. He explained that, if his experience, whenever he was sick, people wouldn't text him in the morning if they had also texted him the night before to check on him. And that he thought lunchtime was the right time to text me again to ask about my health. But he thanked me for letting him know my preferences. In that moment I understood that he was a robot, that my preferences had been updated in the system and that, from that moment on, he would always text me first thing in the morning whenever I'm unwell! I wanted to scream - ''what is wrong with waking up in the morning, thinking about me as you say you always do, and sending me a quick text to ask how I'm feeling. Why wait until lunchtime''?!! But I somehow managed to hold my frustrations in... He really is doing his best and tries to improve.

And then it happened again today... He booked a night away for us on Saturday to do something that I like. This is very sweet of him and I am touched. (I had also booked a weekend away for us in the past). We agreed that I'd go over his place tomorrow night so we can have an entire romantic weekend. Then today he texted me with plans for the weekend and said about tomorrow ''eat at yours before and come any time after 7:30''. When I asked why we are meeting late and what about dinner, he clarified that he wanted to go to the gym after work and that he was planning on eating before gym. He didn't think about eating with me and whatever that involved (whether it's cooking, ordering a take away or buying food) in order to ''put less pressure on himself''. So whilst I imagined us meeting straight after work, having dinner together, having a drink, chatting, laughing etc he wanted me to eat at home and go to him as close to bedtime as possible?? I have cooked for him several times. He never cooked for me (he did take me out to dinner but, in my eyes, booking a restaurant when you have money does not involve as much effort as planning and cooking a 3 course dinner (which also costs money!). I don't expect him to cook as he doesn't like cooking, but he could at least offer to buy me some food. Give me the opportunity to say ''don't worry honey, I'll eat at home'', don't tell me to come to you already fed! Anyway, I got upset, I called him selfish and unusual. He got very upset, he thinks I'm ungrateful considering that he booked a night away for me.

I don't know what to think anymore. Am I too difficult and demanding or is his attitude not right for a guy who claims is crazy about me. Especially so early on in the relationship?

You don't have to explain yourself to those awful people, OP. Sometimes a thread just attracts these kind of nasty trolls, losers who want somebody to feel superior to. This is why I suggested you ignore them.

What XChrome said x2.

If you'd posted about the same guy but were twisting yourself in knots to suit his timetabling, etc, the same posters would be having a go at you for being a pushover with no self-respect 😉

Yes u r making issues where there rnt any.

what about if it was a guy posting all she’s said, but about his girlfriend? You’d think he was a total controlling walking red flag. Be honest about that.

"She books restaurants for us without checking whether I'm free that evening"
"She organised a romantic weekend from Friday night, then told me to get my own dinner before going over to hers"
"She has never cooked for us, though I've told her I'd be fine with a ready meal"
🤔
If it was this way round I might be quicker to suspect she had some sort of strange eating disorder - but I'd still think she sounded weird, hard work, and would tell the OP there's no point in pursuing a relationship if you feel a disconnect.

But my overall thought is that it’s not ok to agree to a romantic weekend starting on Friday evening, only for the Friday to start with me eating dinner at home on my own and delay going over to his house to accommodate his gym session. A romantic evening does not, in my view, include just a drink and sex.

From what you said in OP though,

1. he booked a night away on Saturday
2. You decided to extend that to spending the whole weekend together (mutually, I presume)
3. In you mind, you thought "the weekend" started as soon as you finished work, but in his mind he presumed the weekend started once he was free (so after gym and presumably shower)
4. You are then kicking up a fuss because his thinking is different from yours. You've said about going over at 7.30 - in my world, that would be a normal time to start an evening. He hasn't said come over at 11pm. He's invited you for the start of the evening. However you spend it, you re still spending the evening together.

As many have said, this is about you having a picture in your mind of "the right way to do things, or to react" and you don't seem able to accept that there isn't one 'correct way'. We are all different. You might not be compatible - fair enough, move on - but you not being compatible doesn't make one of you right and one wrong, or one of you 'better' than the other.

If this were your first foray into dating and relationships, then that would be one thing, but it seems odd you have got in to your 40s without realising there are compromises in every relationship, and that very often people do things a different way from yourself, but that doesn't make them wrong.

Currently 88% of people think YABU - perhaps that is something to reflect upon, especially considering on MN there are quite a lot of posters who automatically think the man is wrong, just because he is a man.

You’d jump to eating disorder, and that she’s hard work and weird because she wanted to eat before going to the gym, and be ready for their long weekend to begin at the perfectly reasonable time of 7.30, where I presume they will be eating lots over the weekend? It’s quite normal after what I presume is a working week when you will then be giving your undivided attention to your other half to want to get necessary bits done and have a chill first evening. Besides that maybe I’m weird but if my other half told me to eat first and come over, I’d be thinking sexy thoughts and wondering what would be waiting for me, or what I’ll be doing as soon as I get there, but maybe that’s just me

@Bluebird987, congratulations on picking one of the three elements I mentioned and ignoring the others. You're also presuming quite a bit here, and projecting your imagination on the other person's motives. I think that's three logical fallacies in a single paragraph! Quite something.
[Edit: link]

A bit off topic and not suggesting this is the case for OPs bf but re. Pp speaking of people who avoid food - I was once talking to a guy online who clearly didn’t want to take me out for dinner and I thought he was just stingy.

He probably was that too, but I later figured he he did seem to have disordered eating. He would just eat a piece of fruit all day and walk to the gym and back and then come home and eat one plate of rice and veg or maybe pasta and that would be him for the whole day.

I can see why fruit and one meal is ok for someone who is very sedentary but he’s lifting weights for hours every day and walking lots. He seems to think I was “always eating” by having 3 meals and a snack daily (I also went to the gym and swam regularly) he would only cake or chocolate on his birthday. I think we eat too much sugar in
society, but limiting it to once a year because you worry about your weight seems a bit extreme. He was in great shape by the way. Strong with good muscle definition .

I think he had an issue with food for sure which put me off him because he wasn’t addressing it.

Interesting, your entire post was projecting your imagination- and calling someone out as weird, tiresome etc for very ordinary things. I in fact addressed two of your points. I was just offering a different and more likely perspective, she seems deeply offended by this guy- and I believe that’s grossly unfair, she is looking for things to be offended by. Some things you said I didn’t bother to mention, as it is not offensive to book a restaurant and then cancel if the other person is free. We offer opinion and perspective on Mumsnet without being present in the situation or knowing the individual, so if my post has what you would call logical fallacy, so does yours, and 90% of the posts on this site

I think what is perhaps missing from him is a lack of thought and care about your needs.

The restaurant booking thing would bother me after the first couple of times. There is a complete lack of discussion around what you would like. It's a fixed proposition to which you either answer yes or no. The collaborative element of a healthy relationship is missing.

The gym/eating issue would not bother me hugely as you were planning on spending the whole weekend together - however if l were to behave like this l would perhaps have offered to get a few nice treats in in case my partner did want to eat. So again he is behaving in a cut and dried way not thinking about how you may feel about this.

It is so important that you feel cared for in a relationship - that doesn't mean it has to be one long heady rush but sometimes just a bit of extra thought goes a long way.

However the things you have said about not having the love you needed as a child is really crucial here. It will make you very vulnerable to love bombers. I can relate to this. People who come from secure loving backgrounds enter relationships with a strong sense of worth and manage small acts of thoughtlessness in a more nuanced way.

The things that have upset you about him have triggered you back to unresolved childhood wounds where you didn't get the love you needed and it sounds like you had to deal with huge grief when very young and survive on your own in a new country.

I hope that your weekend has been ok whatever happened between the two of you. I think it's worth trying to discuss these things with him and see if he is open to a more collaborative approach to the relationship.

Booking restaurants sometimes and seeing if she is free, many women would actually like. It doesn’t mean the collaborative aspect of the relationship is missing, that’s a leap. In fact the guy seems very eager to learn what she likes and do things her way moving forward- she said as much in the original post, but she had an issue with that also. Lots of women would like their man to be more proactive in these ways, planning dates and making some decisions. I’ve dated both guys, one who was proactive, planned and did thoughtful things without discussion, another who left all the planning to me, all the time. I know which I preferred. Of course it’s nice to discuss plans, but it’s also not a red flag for someone to show care this way- and maybe this is a way he shows love. Maybe his father did this, or maybe others he’s dated have liked it. He already said that he is listening to OP and her needs and wants, so if she doesn’t like it I’m sure he’s taken that on board. What has actually happened OP, have you broken up or talked about it, how did your weekend go?

You’re just not compatible, OP. He sounds rather set in his ways, and as if he has not got much emotional intelligence, and you have some quite prescriptive ideas about how things should work, which are clearly entirely different to his equally set ideas.

I also would totally recommend this book - l have just started to read it and the first chapter focuses on the beginning of relationships and is aptly called Fantasy and Reality. It throws up a lot of interesting questions around our ideas and expectations of love. Really good read for anyone struggling with finding love.

www.amazon.co.uk/Conversations-Love-Philippa-Alderton-Stephen/dp/0241448743/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?adgrpid=120401177502&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.5z76iXbA399Hzaa0B3J8N-shg78TK9Q3hdoYd0VlRtlhmzc1T8RULSRruOftjQ7tK776mMRHa86R4DU4wWiuei-ZvFQdV9alXZ__9dd0oo7W_7EpVAkdh672Mx4s6y23FzsGsoZYGebbTzPwIugPvBEloZBrDy6oEdXtnY8dRfK11ZdMrhd8Ctq3JieP8qpSAAgr9R53ZNz5f6k0Ut5mcQ.bWu2O5F2vYunWnGJCh7pZ8Ocxzn36vohZRQm70uWkzg&dib_tag=se&hvadid=593770929506&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9045090&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=2002912173887224850&hvtargid=kwd-1370307702898&hydadcr=2078_2227238&keywords=conversations+about+love&qid=1720977327&sr=8-1

In all honesty, I think the guy has more emotional intelligence than the OP, going by the situation, actions and responses of both.

But my overall thought is that it’s not ok to agree to a romantic weekend starting on Friday evening, only for the Friday to start with me eating dinner at home on my own and delay going over to his house to accommodate his gym session. A romantic evening does not, in my view, include just a drink and sex.

Argh why do you keep saying ROMANTIC weekend??? It's just a weekend with a new boyfriend! He is allowed to do other stuff too! You sound like you live in a click flick 🙄

His Friday evenings clearly start with him having his tea and going to the gym after work - there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. In fact, it's actually a massively positive that he keeps himself fit and has a routine.

He has said come round from 7.30pm... Exactly how much earlier did you want this "romantic" weekend to start if he's been working all day?! Did you want him to say come at 5.30pm so that he doesn't have a single second to himself and can be ready to woo you as soon as he closes his laptop?!

Yes you would like hard work and yes, you're expecting far too much. I would be telling him to run.