Am I expecting too much from men?

[Gabitule]

Brace yourself for a long one 😬. Sorry, I’m upset 😞.

I am in my early 40s and have been single for much of my adult life (although I have dated A LOT). One would say that I am too fussy but I just think that I just have reasonably high standards (but I never expect more than I give).

For the last few years I've been mostly using online dating apps with disastrous results (I won't go into details here but those who use online dating probably know what I mean). Aprox 3.5 months ago I met a guy who ticks most of my boxes (probably more than any other guy before) and who claims that I tick his :). He is obviously not perfect but nor am I so I can live with certain differences. The only thing that really concerns me is that we don't seem to speak the same language. I think that there are some issues with his emotional awareness/ intelligence but he tells me that none of his exes complained about this before...so I'm starting to wonder if the issue is in fact with me and my unreasonable expectations...

To give you little examples - when we met, from the first date actually, he would book a restaurant for us on a particular evening and only after he booked it he would ask me if I was free that evening. If I wasn't, it meant that he had to cancel the restaurant. I can't for the life of me understand why he wouldn't ask if I was free before booking the restaurant. This happened more than once.

He tells me that he never cries. Not at movies, not at sad stories, nothing. He says that he feels the pain inside but doesn't need to cry. I personally find that weird.

He tells me how much he adores me and how serious he is about a future with me but I don't feel the emotion behind his words. I often wonder if he chose me with his head because I tick so many of his boxes, and not with his heart. He insists that he feels immense passion... I can see that he is desperate to convince me... There's a disconnect...

And now onto the troubles that make me sad...

I have been unwell earlier in the week. He texted me throughout the day on Monday (not texting was also an issue in the beginning but he got better at it). On Tuesday -nothing. My friends texted me in the morning to check how I was feeling but he didn't. Just before lunchtime I texted him to ask why he wasn't checking on me. He explained that, if his experience, whenever he was sick, people wouldn't text him in the morning if they had also texted him the night before to check on him. And that he thought lunchtime was the right time to text me again to ask about my health. But he thanked me for letting him know my preferences. In that moment I understood that he was a robot, that my preferences had been updated in the system and that, from that moment on, he would always text me first thing in the morning whenever I'm unwell! I wanted to scream - ''what is wrong with waking up in the morning, thinking about me as you say you always do, and sending me a quick text to ask how I'm feeling. Why wait until lunchtime''?!! But I somehow managed to hold my frustrations in... He really is doing his best and tries to improve.

And then it happened again today... He booked a night away for us on Saturday to do something that I like. This is very sweet of him and I am touched. (I had also booked a weekend away for us in the past). We agreed that I'd go over his place tomorrow night so we can have an entire romantic weekend. Then today he texted me with plans for the weekend and said about tomorrow ''eat at yours before and come any time after 7:30''. When I asked why we are meeting late and what about dinner, he clarified that he wanted to go to the gym after work and that he was planning on eating before gym. He didn't think about eating with me and whatever that involved (whether it's cooking, ordering a take away or buying food) in order to ''put less pressure on himself''. So whilst I imagined us meeting straight after work, having dinner together, having a drink, chatting, laughing etc he wanted me to eat at home and go to him as close to bedtime as possible?? I have cooked for him several times. He never cooked for me (he did take me out to dinner but, in my eyes, booking a restaurant when you have money does not involve as much effort as planning and cooking a 3 course dinner (which also costs money!). I don't expect him to cook as he doesn't like cooking, but he could at least offer to buy me some food. Give me the opportunity to say ''don't worry honey, I'll eat at home'', don't tell me to come to you already fed! Anyway, I got upset, I called him selfish and unusual. He got very upset, he thinks I'm ungrateful considering that he booked a night away for me.

I don't know what to think anymore. Am I too difficult and demanding or is his attitude not right for a guy who claims is crazy about me. Especially so early on in the relationship?

On the offchance you're still reading, OP, I agree with the PP who said If you don't find a reasonable approximation of the guy you want, being alone is still better.

Your opening post made me feel uncomfortable - NOT because you're "too demanding" but there's something odd about the way this guy seems to be working to a checklist, which he adjusts after you make a preference known. I'm not even going to bother trying to analyse it: the summary is that my instincts are in line with yours. Also pretty strange that he was quick to declare his feelings for you, while not really knowing you well at all.

Hope some of your future dates are fun, too, and happy hunting!

Btw, I haven't cried since I started taking antidepressants in 2003 😂 I get excited if something really sad makes one of my eyes a bit wet!

I don't think it's weird to book a restaurant in advance- he probably didn't want to disappoint you by offering to take you to a restaurant and then not being able to book it.

He may not be right for you but you are high maintenance- you want a relationship that's stuck in the honeymoon period. In a healthy relationship people are comfortable spending time apart, hence why he didn't think eating beforehand and meeting an hour later was an issue.

I'm guessing you are prone to anxiety which often manifests by needing to have complete control; you build up a picture in your head and if the reality doesn't match, you get upset.

You don't sound suited at all.

He sounds low on emotional intelligence perhaps (not great but not uncommon especially in men) and may be someone who doesn't really appreciate that other people think, feel and prioritise differently to him. (My husband is like that and when I posted about it on here recently other posters suggested possible ASD, as I see they have also done on this thread. Interestingly one of our children does have ASD though I'd always assumed it came from my side of the family. )

On the other hand he clearly values himself, his time and self care (good) whilst also being fair and considerate (good). He's very clear and honest with what he's offering and doesn't mess you about or blow hot and cold (good). I had so many boyfriends in my youth who messed me around, weren't honest, love and passion one minute and chasing their ex the next etc and it made me so anxious and it was awful ... be careful what you wish for!

You seem to want lots of emotion on both sides, spontaneity and to be "chased" and fussed over. There will be plenty of men like that but they may have other faults as you will be aware.

Thinking about your examples:
The fixed evening and pre chosen restaurant might seem lovely to some women. Others might feel it's a bit too scheduled and all on his terms.

Being constantly checked on when ill - assuming you're not critically unwell I think once a day at lunchtime sounds fine. If I'm unwell I want to rest/sleep/ feel sorry for myself in peace and being badgered with calls and texts would really get on my tits.

Never cries - neither do I or very rarely. I used to cry a lot in my youth and I got sick of the wasted energy and gloomy aftermath so I trained myself out of it. I don't think that makes me a bad person or a robot though my own mother has called me "hard" and "cold" because of it. I'm really not, I just prefer stoicism.

Being told to have dinner before coming over ... I might have baulked at that a bit because it suggests "come over for sex but I'm not making any effort" (though at 7.30 you'd still have a full evening before bedtime unless you're a toddler). But I probably would have said "no thanks, I don't like eating so early, I'll see you in the morning like we originally planned" and then do as I pleased in the evening, just like him. Further this would show him I valued my own time and preferences which I'm sure he would respect.

I don't think he will change though so if you want a more emotionally enmeshed relationship you might need to look elsewhere and the same for him.

I agree, that was coming across as very likely the case for me too.

You are trying to hold this poor man up to the standards you’ve set for some imaginary man in an imaginary relationship.

The thing about asking you to get dinner before going to his as he has plans early evening - you’re being totally irrational. This is real life, not a figment of your imagination conjured up to meet your every whim.

You say that you've done lots of dating but that's very different to a longer term relationship. After a while the partner will try less hard to impress with fancy meals partly because they can't afford to live like that long term but also they believe that the relationship is solid. The ones who shower you with non-stop gifts and attention are either rich and have nothing else in their life or they're not expecting to hang around for very long.

It might really be the case that you've gone off him hence why you're nitpicking. Sometimes people just aren't into another person simply because the chemistry isn't there but they feel that's not a good enough excuse so they start finding faults that most people in a committed relationship would not care about.

Maybe take a look at your expectations and consider how important they really are. If it is very important to you that your partner never books a restaurant until he has already asked whether you're free for that day, let them know at the dating stage whether that's a big no-no or a dealbreaker for you.

Breaking this down:

Crying: a man not crying is nothing unusual or weird. They're actually known for not crying - it's a thing. Where have you been that you don't know this?

The texting: to be honest I lost the will to live reading it, it was so bloody convoluted. If he texts you once during the day to ask how you are surely that's enough. Does it matter what time it is?

Booking restaurants: Yeah, I agree. Booking a restaurant without checking if you're free is strange and pointless.

Romantic weekend: I would be pissed off if a new love interest asked me to eat on my own at my house for the first night of a romantic weekend. I would anticipate a meal together, wine and an evening of conversation. Otherwise asking you to turn up later looks like he just wants bed and sex. Going to the gym first and asking you to eat on your own is OK when you know each other better but it's not a good look in the first flush of romance!

I would be hacked off if a guy I was dating said "eat on your own, I am going to the gym".
I think men can be a bit"take it or leave it " even when they profess undying love. I don't think you are high maintenance or the other labels people have given you on here. Women make a lot of compromises for men and a lot of excuses.

Hi op, pm’d you.

Of course I am still following the thread, if people are taking time to respond to my original message then one thing I should do is to take the time to read their messages.

I do feel a bit bi-polar at the moment (god, I hope I’m not offending anyone by using that word?), one minute I read a message telling me I’m super high maintenance and I think ‘‘yeah, I’m awful, why am I so bad’’ and the next minute I read a message from someone who feels the guy is not prioritising me (esp considering the early stage of the relationship) or lacks emotional awareness and I think ‘’exactly, my instincts are right’. But my overall thought is that it’s not ok to agree to a romantic weekend starting on Friday evening, only for the Friday to start with me eating dinner at home on my own and delay going over to his house to accommodate his gym session. A romantic evening does not, in my view, include just a drink and sex.

I am very tempted to respond to some of the messages I received but I know there’s no point. But no, he does not normally eat before gym and no, the restaurants he booked without asking me are not restaurants where you cannot get a booking and no, I don’t think we’re at a level in the relationship where people should just drop the standards they had during dating (when does dating turns into relationship, by the way?)

wishing everyone a good weekend!

You don't have high expectations, you have unreasonable expectations. You expect everyone to do things the way you imagine they should be. Not wrong, but differently, which you interpret as wrong.

Your issue is lack of communication and understanding.

So I've dated on and off the last 5ish years after a 12 year relationship (including 6 years married).

I think you can get in a cycle when single which skews your perception of relationships and expectations. I realise on here there's a lot of talk of high standards etc but yours seem way beyond reasonable.

Have you sat down with someone to go through this.

I don't think you're being unreasonable. Partly because I appreciate lots of contact/messaging, and couldn't be in a relationship who wasn't like that, and because sharing meals with my partner is important to me, so I'd be disappointed to be told 'eat before you get here'. But even if I didn't 'GET' your issues, if he's doing/not doing things that don't align with you, then if course you're going to be upset and I don't think it's the right relationship for you x

Haha to the lady who wrote “look at all these pick me types”, you are amusing. People genuinely believe she is picky and high maintenance, creating issues where there aren’t any, and that is tiresome for anyone to deal with, male or female. He sounds like a pretty considerate person and any feedback you have given him he has taken onboard, which doesn’t make him robotic, but it a part of two people getting to know each others needs. As for the date he’s planned, he planned it and that’s lovely, not all men are great at planning anything at all. He taking you away you said? If he says come fed, then bloody go there fed and see what he’s planned, don’t ruin it before it’s even begun. You have an entire romantic weekend together at his suggestion and you’re moaning because it doesn’t start with food. Maybe he just wants to get straight to the romance, if you see what I mean, and then enjoy food and everthing else at your leisure. Maybe you are going somewhere that he needs to drive to? Who knows. Why can’t you go with the flow and be excited- he planned it. You majorly sound like you need to lighten up and not be constantly looking for flaws in this guy when nothing you have mentioned is remotely a red flag.

That was me who said that. If you have something to say to me, why not do so?

The thing is that those of you who say she is nitpicking are completely missing the point. She has clearly stated her instincts tell her something is off with him, that he is not genuine and is emotionally remote.
The incidents which you think are nitpicking are her attempts to intellectualize something that is instinctual. She's trying to find something to justify the vibe she's getting from him because she can't quite put her finger on it. Taken alone, these things seem minor and could certainly seem nitpicky, but in the context of her sensing he is emotionally unavailable and not sincere in his feelings, not so much.

Anybody who shames women for having their own particular standards for male companions is acting like a pick-me and probably has internalized misogyny. Such a person is expecting women to settle for less than what they need, a message women are already beat down with from childhood on. It has the effect of getting us into to ignore our gut and stay in relationships with toxic men. People, even our so-called friends, tells us we are making too much of it, that he's just being a guy being a guy and he's not so bad, which is bullshit. "So what if he never cries, is robotic and emotionally remote?" they say. "Men are like that. Just get over it." So I stand by that characterization. It's pick-me bullshit.

She's looking for things wrong to justify her instincts about him. That's why she's complaining about seemingly minor things.
The real problem is she feels something is wrong with him and can't quite put her finger on what it is, so she is trying to come up with a way to explain it.

It’s you

booking a restaurant makes sense if it’s one you like so you can make sure it’s available before asking. If not, you cancel. Only a problem if he’s funny about cancelling

texting when you’re I’ll. I’d test later in case you’re still asleep. He’s listened to what you said though and taken it on board but that’s too “robotic for you”. He can’t win

not showing feeling’s doesn’t mean you don’t have them. It’s incredibly frustrating to feel upset or emotional but the other person dismisses it until you show it in the way they feel is acceptable.

id advise him to run

I don't think it's you! He seems like a nice person, but just not what you want/need. I would expect my bf to consider what I was going to eat if we'd arranged to meet at his house in the evening. Even if it's just a pizza in the fridge or some nice picnic stuff, regardless of whether he was eating earlier on. I'd expect to be made comfortable, within reason, as I would if he was coming to my house. If it's beyond him to do that, for whatever reason, then he probably wouldn't be the one for me. Other people probably wouldn't mind, that doesn't matter, because they are not you.

X chrome- I did say it to you- I just don’t click reply on here because it never actually highlights the comment and replies, not sure if it’s the browser I’m using. However, the comment was directly addressed to the person who commented with the pick me rubbish. Abuse runs both ways, and constantly nit picking at someone because they aren’t exactly what you want- despite them not actually displaying red flags or abusing you- is bordering on abuse itself. I know your philosophy, simply using the phrase pick me shows me how you think. Some of us have actually been in truly abusive relationships, my point to this lady is that she is so incredibly needy and picky that it would be a massive turn off for most people. The latest example is her guy trying to do something nice for her and her essentially feeling like she wants to start an argument over the minor details of it. Fair enough if she is indeed picking up some vibes, we aren’t in the relationship so we don’t see all of it, but addressing her actual issues that she has stated in the post- no he is not toxic, and no there aren’t any red flags. However if he doesn’t meet her standard, or she feels uncomfortable, she is free to leave the relationship as we all have to be comfortable. I’m not personally picking up the vibe that she likes or appreciates him that much, so maybe they’d both be better off apart?

Where did you get the impression she is "constantly" picking on him?
What's all this about abuse? Nobody is saying he is abusive, just that he is not the right man for her. Everything isn't about abuse. There are other reasons not to commit to somebody.
I can't make heads or tails of your line of reasoning here. Saying you know my "philosophy" and how I think just because of a term I used is silly and arrogant. Get over yourself. You're not the Oracle of Delphi.

I'm just not getting your point. Are you saying that anything short of abuse should be considered okay and is not a valid reason to end a relationship?
We agree that he is not the man for her. So what's the problem?

There’s no problem, I just hope he meets a woman that thinks of him more kindly. Encouraging nit picking behaviour and talking about toxic relationships and pick me girls hasn’t been a particularly helpful addition. She’s described a man who listens when she has an issue or wants things done a certain way and will do things that way moving forward, a man who gives her space when she’s sick because he thought that’s what she would want but now knows better. A man that plans nice dates and all he said to her was to eat before she comes, maybe he had something nice and seductive for planned and they’ll eat later (that would be my first thought), a man that keeps physically fit and is disciplined with it, I don’t see anything toxic in any of it, she just sounds grumpy but maybe there’s some past stuff going on there or she’s not that into him and is irritated by him, or maybe indeed she’s picking up on something about him not expressed here, or most likely they are just incompatible. The fact you acted like he had done wrong, we were encouraging her to lower her standards and get into a toxic relationship- is nonsense.

Also it’s really messed up to berate someone for not crying at sad movies or stories. I have a very tender heart and it’s rare that I’ll cry at anything, I was sad when my grandparents died and I’ve cried once for each of them. I don’t cry at films or stories but I definitely feel the emotions. I’ve cried a lot in my life and as the years have gone by I’ve become a lot more stoic, but I still have deep feelings. Do not judge this man on that. It does not remotely make him emotionally unintelligent or emotionally distant!

It sounds ridiculous to get wound up over such small things.

You sound like a person who has never had any real problems, so you feel the need to be angry over the small stuff.