Am I expecting too much from men?

[Gabitule]

Brace yourself for a long one 😬. Sorry, I’m upset 😞.

I am in my early 40s and have been single for much of my adult life (although I have dated A LOT). One would say that I am too fussy but I just think that I just have reasonably high standards (but I never expect more than I give).

For the last few years I've been mostly using online dating apps with disastrous results (I won't go into details here but those who use online dating probably know what I mean). Aprox 3.5 months ago I met a guy who ticks most of my boxes (probably more than any other guy before) and who claims that I tick his :). He is obviously not perfect but nor am I so I can live with certain differences. The only thing that really concerns me is that we don't seem to speak the same language. I think that there are some issues with his emotional awareness/ intelligence but he tells me that none of his exes complained about this before...so I'm starting to wonder if the issue is in fact with me and my unreasonable expectations...

To give you little examples - when we met, from the first date actually, he would book a restaurant for us on a particular evening and only after he booked it he would ask me if I was free that evening. If I wasn't, it meant that he had to cancel the restaurant. I can't for the life of me understand why he wouldn't ask if I was free before booking the restaurant. This happened more than once.

He tells me that he never cries. Not at movies, not at sad stories, nothing. He says that he feels the pain inside but doesn't need to cry. I personally find that weird.

He tells me how much he adores me and how serious he is about a future with me but I don't feel the emotion behind his words. I often wonder if he chose me with his head because I tick so many of his boxes, and not with his heart. He insists that he feels immense passion... I can see that he is desperate to convince me... There's a disconnect...

And now onto the troubles that make me sad...

I have been unwell earlier in the week. He texted me throughout the day on Monday (not texting was also an issue in the beginning but he got better at it). On Tuesday -nothing. My friends texted me in the morning to check how I was feeling but he didn't. Just before lunchtime I texted him to ask why he wasn't checking on me. He explained that, if his experience, whenever he was sick, people wouldn't text him in the morning if they had also texted him the night before to check on him. And that he thought lunchtime was the right time to text me again to ask about my health. But he thanked me for letting him know my preferences. In that moment I understood that he was a robot, that my preferences had been updated in the system and that, from that moment on, he would always text me first thing in the morning whenever I'm unwell! I wanted to scream - ''what is wrong with waking up in the morning, thinking about me as you say you always do, and sending me a quick text to ask how I'm feeling. Why wait until lunchtime''?!! But I somehow managed to hold my frustrations in... He really is doing his best and tries to improve.

And then it happened again today... He booked a night away for us on Saturday to do something that I like. This is very sweet of him and I am touched. (I had also booked a weekend away for us in the past). We agreed that I'd go over his place tomorrow night so we can have an entire romantic weekend. Then today he texted me with plans for the weekend and said about tomorrow ''eat at yours before and come any time after 7:30''. When I asked why we are meeting late and what about dinner, he clarified that he wanted to go to the gym after work and that he was planning on eating before gym. He didn't think about eating with me and whatever that involved (whether it's cooking, ordering a take away or buying food) in order to ''put less pressure on himself''. So whilst I imagined us meeting straight after work, having dinner together, having a drink, chatting, laughing etc he wanted me to eat at home and go to him as close to bedtime as possible?? I have cooked for him several times. He never cooked for me (he did take me out to dinner but, in my eyes, booking a restaurant when you have money does not involve as much effort as planning and cooking a 3 course dinner (which also costs money!). I don't expect him to cook as he doesn't like cooking, but he could at least offer to buy me some food. Give me the opportunity to say ''don't worry honey, I'll eat at home'', don't tell me to come to you already fed! Anyway, I got upset, I called him selfish and unusual. He got very upset, he thinks I'm ungrateful considering that he booked a night away for me.

I don't know what to think anymore. Am I too difficult and demanding or is his attitude not right for a guy who claims is crazy about me. Especially so early on in the relationship?

I agree with this. I know quite a few people who have had this upbringing and then they've been extremely needy or hard to please in life, and it's caused issues throughout. Everyone should have normal healthy standards but nitpicking over little human foibles will only lead to a lonely or always unhappy existence. No-one can live up to perfection.
When you so desperately want a happy relationship you have to realise that you are the common denominator. It sounds like you have a good one OP, I would try and unpack your upbringing before you end up scaring him off.

100% THIS. Having certain expectations is absolutely fine and right but you seem to want to micromanage every response he makes and that he should do things in the EXACT way and order down to the letter that you want them to be done.

You say you dont want a robot but in the same breath you are literally saying he should be doing things exactly as you prescribe they should be done.

You arent going to find someone who can read your mind and will behave in the exact way you prescribe and if you are that rigid then frankly, its no wonder you've been single for so long.

If 7:30 is close to bedtime, I'm wondering what time you go to bed?!

You're not getting what you want or need from this relationship, it doesn't really matter if we think you're unreasonable or not. You need to find someone who matches your needs.

Kindly OP I think you have a highly idealised image of the perfect relationship and most mortal men will struggle to meet it.
It's up to you, keep looking and hope your knight is out there, or truly accept there may be some compromise.
I wouldn't call you hard work or unreasonable and it's good to know your worth and have expectations. But maybe you do need to think a bit more about more help for your childhood lack of love?
This vision got you through a hard time but maybe now is holding you back?

One would say that I am too fussy but I just think that I just have reasonably high standards (but I never expect more than I give)

Is this really true though? You can be as fussy as you like, noone is obliged to date anyone they dont want to. However, if you are very perfectionistic in your standards, that does beg the question - how perfect are you? what do you bring to the table? do you do everything "perfectly" and never make any mistakes? If you are so perfect then how come you're still single?

How would you feel if you met someone and they nitpicked everything you said and did, questioning why you didnt text at X time or why you cry so much etc, would that indicate to you someone who was truly loving and caring or would it indicate someone rather controlling and very inflexible in their approach.

I am not suggesting you cant have standards- thats very important but if you are expecting someone to do everything in a very specific and exact way then I'm afraid you will be single for a very long time to come.

You're being too high maintenance OP. And you seem to want someone exactly like you.

I don't cry, why would that be a problem for anyone?

I can't for the life of me understand why he wouldn't ask if I was free before booking the restaurant.

I can't for the life of me see how this can be an issue. He books somewhere, you can't make it, he has to cancel a table booking. Not the end of the world is it? And also not your problem so why would you even be bothered?

I have been unwell. My friends texted me in the morning to check how I was feeling but he didn't. Just before lunchtime I texted him to ask why he wasn't checking on me.

Clearly weren't that unwell if you had to chase him up to ask why he wasn't concerned about you🙄

We agreed that I'd go over his place tomorrow night so we can have an entire romantic weekend. Then today he texted me with plans for the weekend and said about tomorrow ''eat at yours before and come any time after 7:30" So he wanted me to eat at home and go to him as close to bedtime as possible??

7.30pm is "as close to bedtime as possible"?! What time do you go to bed?!

And what's with the So whilst I imagined us meeting straight after work, having dinner together, having a drink, chatting, laughing etc nonsense?!

Why can't you have a drink and chat and laugh (?!) after 7.30pm?! What time did you think you'd be meeting if he's in work all day?! AND you're spending the whole weekend together anyway?! So he wants to go to the gym after work on the Friday?! He is entitled to his own life too you know!

Yes you are expecting far too much but don't worry, he'll probably dump you soon for being too demanding / controlling.

This. The old "damsel in distress" routine. Assuming OP was absolutely fine if she was lay in bed texting her friends all morning anyway so don't think the bloke needed to worry she was on her death bed 🙄but needed to make a drama out of it.

Oh to reach perfection- it doesn't happen as we are all flawed, so that nececitates assessing and making decisions. You are having trouble with deciding what is and isn't a red flag and how significant they are. Lots of people do, quite normal, its tricky. But what's not normal is to decide that once you are with someone you are stuck and won't get out, so you are forcing an arbitrary timeline in the early stages and not giving yourself needed time to work out what's significant.
You have put yourself in a catch22 and your fear of being latched on is pushing you to make decisions, and the default is avoid.
All the stuff you like to do, like 3 course dinners, weekends away, coupled with your demand that he is as enthusiastic as you with spending as much time as possible together. It's a lot, and it's intense for early stages, you should be taking it easy from the start rather than diving in all guns blazing, then pulling away when it doesn't looked matched. That makes you look like the lovebomber and maybe that's how you have had lots of short term dating. It's not healthy and shows you are still reacting in a negative way from past events. So I'd say back to counselling for you, because anxious/ avoidant attachment is going to be hard for any man to deal with.

I don’t even think it’s about being too fussy or having high expectations of men OP. It’s more that you seem to think there’s a right way of doing things and that men should absolutely know exactly how to act in any given situation to meet your requirements without having a clue that it’s a test they’re supposed to pass.

And actually throwing out insults and calling him names for not meeting your ridiculously rigid rules is beyond entitled.

Honestly no one is ever going to meet your exact specifications unless you learn to chill out and appreciate there’s no right way of being in a relationship.

Good morning everyone and thank you again for your replies.
I had a bit of a sleepless night but whatever sleep I had helped me get some clarity.

My initial thought was that only a few people understood the meaning of my original message (that it wasn’t about what time we are meeting tonight or about having a meal together but my frustrations about the plan starting out as ‘romantic evening together’ and transforming into ‘eat at home, come after 7:30’ without further clarification because, in his words, explaining about going to the gym etc ‘would have taken too long to type’). Perhaps I feel that he is seeing what he can get away with, and if I’m chilled about his lack of desire to see me, text me, etc then he’ll carry on like that. If I make a fuss, he will make amends and get better. This does not work for me, I want him to want to spend time with me as much as I want to spend time with him, to be as crazy about me as I am about him.

The issue with booking a restaurant without checking if I’m available is very subtle. He is self-protective of his time and decides that he only wants to make a particular evening a week available for me. In case you wonder- he does not have a busy social life, he just wants the time for himself. So he books the restaurant and then tells me he’s done that. So if I have other loose plans I might be inclined to change them, because my bf booked a restaurant to take me out, yay! If I say that I’m not free his response is ‘’ah, ok, I’ll have to get back to you about when I’m next free’’ and the routine starts again. I feel I can’t be upset with him for not checking my availability in advance because he was so thoughtful about booking the restaurant in the first place… But if, instead of booking a restaurant first, he asks me if I’m free on a particular day and I say no, he’d be expected to offer me another day that week, which is not something he wants to do until he is 100% certain that day suits him.

I don’t know if this makes sense but writing the above made me realise exactly why my instincts are screaming at me that something is not right. The funny thing is that I started this particular message wanting to say that I think the main issue is actually what I perceive as lack of emotional awareness, and how my antennas are super alert for signs of that. But I am ending the message thinking that he probably knows what he is doing, and the reason he hasn’t run for the hills despite me bringing up all sorts of apparently ridiculous reasons for an argument is not because he is crazy about me, but because he knows that he isn’t innocent. (Innocent is not the right word but if my choice of language is a bit unusual it’s because English is not my first language - And damn, I feel I have to justify everything I say because some people on MN can really take apart everything someone says in a message and extrapolate meaning)

Anyway, I think I need to end this because I don’t think it will get much better. We are who we are. And if the issue is indeed me and my super ridiculously high standards then he’s better off without me anyway. Win win.

And by the way - sorry to say this but I asked whether people thought I was being unreasonable or not to think certain things about my bf. Just that. I didn’t ask to be psychoanalysed on text, to be told whether people thought I would end up alone for ever, to be told whether people thought I had certain horrible character traits etc. It’s like someone asking you on the street ‘’is my skirt too short?’’ and you responding with ‘’yes, and that tells me that you’re a loose woman and you will probably end up alone for ever’’. I know anonymity is an amazing weapon but please never say something to someone online that you wouldn’t say to their face. Because behind the screen there’s a real face and person and all. I apologise if I’m being overly sensitive about this, I’m tired and obviously upset about my bf.

I wish you all a good weekend and thank you again for giving me some of your time.

My friends texted me in the morning to check how I was feeling but he didn't. Just before lunchtime I texted him to ask why he wasn't checking on me. He explained that, if his experience, whenever he was sick, people wouldn't text him in the morning if they had also texted him the night before to check on him. And that he thought lunchtime was the right time to text me again to ask about my health

He's right. If I knew someone was ill I wouldnt text them in the morning either as I'd assume they wanted a lie in and wouldnt want to disturb them. Lunchtime seems just right.
You are supposedly so ill you needed checking on but you texted him to ask why he hadn't texted you? 😂ridiculous.

Then today he texted me with plans for the weekend and said about tomorrow ''eat at yours before and come any time after 7:30''. When I asked why we are meeting late and what about dinner, he clarified that he wanted to go to the gym after work and that he was planning on eating before gym

7.30 is "late"- WTAF? what time do you go to bed- 8pm? Good for him that he is going to the gym and has outside interests - noone should revolve their entire lives around someone they are dating- it's completely unhealthy. Its perfectly healthy that he has a life outside of you and it would be very concerning if he didnt.

Anyway, I got upset, I called him selfish and unusual. He got very upset, he thinks I'm ungrateful considering that he booked a night away for me

You are ungrateful- you are spitting out insults and being rude when he literally hasn't done anything wrong. Blimey.

Am I too difficult and demanding

Yes, very.

I have been in relationships with men who were very much in touch with their feelings (and who cried at movies ;))... But those men were also men who cheated, or drank too much, or had other major flaws that made them incompatible with my idea of a life partner

So this surely proves that crying at movies doesnt necessarily indicate that someone is decent/ a good partner then doesnt it? Crying at movies means nothing whatsoever.

Is the expectation in relationships that people eat at home before going to spend the night with their partners or love interests?? If so, I wish I knew this all those times he came round to my house

Depends- sometimes it's nice to eat together, sometimes other plans get in the way like going to the gym and it's good to be flexible with things like this. Surely the entire point is spending time together, not necessarily having to eat at the exact same time.

He must have the patience of a saint, I would have dumped you by now.

So it’s another one of those threads where the OP just wants validation that they’re right and flounces when others give very valid advice.

Basically

OP - This is the scenario am I being unreasonable

Everyone - well yea actually you are being a bit unreasonable

OP - no I’m not you’re all just keyboard warriors I’m right you’re all wrong goodbye

Sounds ND. There’s a thread on here about women with ND partners who live like this. My DP has a touch of this behaviour but not as much as this guy.

His going to be spending whole weekend with you and wants to work out before you go away so naturally he wants to ear dinner before going to the gym.
his text was clear, he communicated.
I think you are unreasonable.

💯

Honestly. I find that exhausting.

You seem annoyed by him doing things the same as you. He tries to make plans when he is available. You say you aren’t available so he says that’s fine and he will look when he is next available after that.

Neither of you are freely available to meet up just whenever. That’s a good thing. You both continuing to care about your own free time (even if someone’s social life isn’t busy) is actually quite healthy.

You went always available for him and he isn’t for you. So why are you annoyed?

And why would you be upset with him not checking your availability in advance. He books something, you say no he cancels. It’s really not that big of a deal. And not booking something doesn’t mean he is obliged to immediately offer another date. Neither does booking something stop him from offering another date.

You have been dating 14 weeks. It’s too hard work. Just end it. But projecting all this ‘he knows what he is doing’ and making out he is a bad person when there’s no evidence of it is strange. You don’t have high standards. You have unrealistic ones.

You say you didn’t want all this extra analysis of the issue. But you also volunteered the addition information about not feeling you have been loved etc. did you mention that and not expect people to take it into account? Just ignore it?

Your analogy doesn’t work. Because you didn’t ask if your skirt was short. You asked for opinions on a complex situation and then explained a lot of your back ground and emotions outside this relationship:

Being 'crazy' at an early stage is not a healthy thing to aspire to in your 40's, maybe teens or early 20's it happens, but experience should bring caution and wisdom.
Having said that, he might just be plain wrong for you. I think you are at opposite extremes. You want a crazy obsessive love match, he wants someone who will slot into his time as he wishes. That will be why he has a history of short term things as you do. You are too willing to adapt your life to fit in and he is too rigid.
Neither of you is right, you are both at opposite extremes. The sweet spot is always somewhere in the middle as an aim, until either of you aim for that, nether of you will get anywhere.
Overall, I don't see this going far unless you can both adapt. How much notice does he give you after having booked? If its only a day or 2, that would drive me mad, and has done. I like to know preferably by a Monday or Tuesday what doing on a weekend, Wednesday as an occasional outside. But if it gregularly gets to Thursday or Friday, I'd be pissed off with it.
If he's arranged a midweek meet, I'd of expected to have discussed that the weekend prior.
The way you should handle what he is doing, is to refuse to be slotted in all the time. You do that by always saying you have prior engagements if you have made any other plans, and he has to accept cancelling with grace if he wants to do it that way around - I'm being generous, maybe he has anxiety over bookings being filled up so does it in advance.
How does it go from your end as you should be equally setting up meets? I hope you don't just let him decide.
The middle ground is where you view your partner as enhancing the life you have rather than becoming the centre of your world- that's the 'crazy' that's not good. It's also not about controlling when things suit, it's talking and negotiating on time spent together without ambiguity and sticking to it. You thought 'romantic evening means straight after work to get in as much time as possible', he thought," I want to do x,y,z, then have romance. So you both read into your own interpretation. At some point you discussed and realised you meant different things, this is when to negotiate. But no, you tell him he's selfish, and he sticks to his plan and you don't meet in the middle.

So he books the restaurant and then tells me he’s done that. So if I have other loose plans I might be inclined to change them, because my bf booked a restaurant to take me out, yay! If I say that I’m not free his response is ‘’ah, ok, I’ll have to get back to you about when I’m next free’’ and the routine starts again. I feel I can’t be upset with him for not checking my availability in advance because he was so thoughtful about booking the restaurant in the first place… But if, instead of booking a restaurant first, he asks me if I’m free on a particular day and I say no, he’d be expected to offer me another day that week, which is not something he wants to do until he is 100% certain that day suits him.

As I said upthread I can see both POVs but this from your latest post jumped out at me,
it reminds me of a recent driving instructor I had who would do this to me. I could see I wasn’t one of his favourite learner drivers /clients so he deprioritised me . He would always leave me hanging for ages before confirming the day for my next lesson and he’d message saying “ it’s booked for X time and day” and if I said no I wasn’t free he would then act as if he couldn’t offer me another slot, but yet he was fond of rescheduling my lessons presumably to accommodate others. so he showed flexibility when he wanted to basically.

I know a driving instructor is a very different relationship to a romantic one lol but my point being it sounds like your partner is also de-prioritising you.

He sees his time as more valuable than yours and he’s trying to train you to make yourself available for the days which suit him even if it’s not great for you . Booking a restaurant does sound ostensibly quite innocuous but I get what you’re saying when you provide more context.

I think you’ve made the right decision OP, you’re not compatible with him. Ultimately it doesn’t matter if people think YANBU or YABU. It’s not working with him and it makes sense to break up. All the best with that.

Are you having fun with this guy? Cause he sounds like a cold, unemotional robot 🤖

If you’re not having fun in this relationship then get out. I also think that when he told you to come close to bed time he didn’t intend to have dinner with you, his priorities were gym, chill and getting laid. Yours were: spending quality time together. You two sound a bit incompatible. Just because the guy looks good on paper it doesn’t means he’s a good match for you.

He sounds like me and I am awesome!! :)

Also, I find the hardest part of going to the gym, is working out eating around it. But I'd say he's highly unusual for actually wanting to eat before working out. Anyone knows once eaten you need a 2 hour gap unless you are happy with stomach cramps and feeling sick. People generally eat after the gym for that reason. So perhaps he made that up as an excuse to eat earlier. I think it's safe to assume he can't cook, so the negotiation is you come round and cook, or you order in takeaway. You can't hope for things that someone is not capable of. Also, cooking to impress does have pressure even if you can cook, so could be a reason to avoid, even if you do it for yourself.

Don't bother giving him food next time.

Usually in the heady days of a new relationship food is the last thing on people's minds.It's annoying to always have to think about food- and take aways are horrendously expensive post Covid for some reason.

That's not true and is down to the individual!

I always have to have eaten recently to fuel myself before I workout, and I do numerous things (pole, running, bootcamp, ocrs). If I didn'y I would feel sick and shaky!

But to OP - it sounds like you've made the right choice to end things. I initially thought you were being unreasonable, but reading your later posts, it sounds like you aren't a priority to him. If someone is making you feel like that in the early months, it'll only get worse. If he was fussed about seeing you then if you couldn't make they day he suggested for dinner for example, then surely he'd want to sort out a day that works for both of you there and then, not be unfussed and leave it till the following week when you'll both have plans again.

The urge to type a nasty sarcastic message saying how high maintenance you sound was strong but I’m not going to, not that my opinion matters but in case you read it here goes.

Walk away from this guy for starters, you’ve debated with the idea of him too much, picked him apart in your mind and to his face, let him go free and walk away.

THEN TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND START AGAIN. Don’t necessarily date, but just live your life doing what you enjoy, when you do meet someone again, don’t analyse them like a computer program, just enjoy the moment and see what happens, from the beginning you’ll know if your attracted to them physically, and from there just see how your relationship develops gradually, forget the checklist, or whether they have messaged at the right time, booked something in the right manner or added your relationship preferences to their onboard computer (are you an old Atari console looking for love with a commodor 64?). Just date and see what happens. Or of course carry on being a high maintenance nightmare like you seem to be (sorry).