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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Daughter is having first overnight with her abusive father tonight..

203 replies

SantaFeSister · 29/06/2024 20:18

How do you cope sending your kids for overnight contact with their father who is abusive?

Ex is very abusive. Long domestic abuse history and also abused DD as an infant. I left him and he took me to court. Family court for many years. Contact progressed very slowly now its at one night overnight. Dd was upset this morning and didn't want to go. She cried at handover. The court directed I may have a facetime with her on Saturday nights. I had this and she seemed in good spirits but told me she missed me and wants to come home tonight and not sleepover at daddy's.. he was standing there.
I miss her so much. I miss the smell of her hair, her breathing in the night, her sleepy cuddles (she still sleeps in with me) I've been slowly building her up by arranging sleepovers at friends for her to ease her in as she's never ever been away from me. I have seen her every single day of her life.

Does it get easier? It's the fact he's an abuser that makes it so very hard. I've kept busy today and met my girl group of friends for lunch. My best friend said I could stay over tonight at hers but I decided to come home as its just prolonging the inevitable.

Does it get easier?

OP posts:
Hellodarknessmyfriend · 30/06/2024 23:53

@Secondstart1001
But is she saying that to appease mum?
We're bedsharers and daughter is four; it is literally all she has ever known. She has never slept in a bed of her own for a full night and as a new baby/toddler we never purchased a cot! Even her first night was next to me (home birth).
Were husband and I to split (and we would 50/50 share care) then she would bedshare both with her mummy and with her daddy. That is what would be the right thing for our child as the routine would be exactly the same. Both of us would support the other with that.

Secondstart1001 · 01/07/2024 00:05

@Hellodarknessmyfriend i don’t think I child could make this all up to appease her mum! Come on! The details here are pretty horrific.
I have nothing against co sleeping, ex H and I would when kids were little. It’s the context here. He has been visiting his daughter at a contact centre for a good bloody reason, it’s not a light thing to have this kind of controlled contact. What about starving her as punishment? You are focussing on one minute detail and applying it to your family and your non abusive DH. Situation here is not like this if you read ops updates. The issue here isn’t co sleeping - it’s about consent for one as the child did not want to sleep with the dad. He also made her sleep in underwear. You are being pretty dismissive here and I don’t think very respectful.

Secondstart1001 · 01/07/2024 00:11

@Hellodarknessmyfriend i read you post again and sleeping with a newborn is dangerous and nothing to be proud about! My kids co slept when unwell or a bad dream but not the norm. I wouldn’t be encouraging co sleeping like that, you are creating codependency. I could say alot more on this but would rather focus on op!

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 01/07/2024 00:11

@Secondstart1001 I read it as she was referring to the dad's underwear?
And did OP explain what actually happened re the "starving as punishment?"
For reference, my abusive ex-husband was awarded majority contact of my two sons so I know how appalling the family courts are.
But I'm also a primary teacher and aware there are at least two sides to every story.

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 01/07/2024 00:14

@Secondstart1001 Factually incorrect. SIDS rates are lowest in countries where bedsharing is the societal norm. Bedsharing is not dangerous with a newborn if the strict guidelines are fully adhered to. Did it will all three of mine and would do it again. As I would the homebirth (again, safe as, if not safer than hospital births).
But let's keep the focus on the OP here.

Secondstart1001 · 01/07/2024 00:16

@Hellodarknessmyfriend ok he was wearing the underwear. Still not appropriate really and she didn’t consent to sleeping in the same bed. I also believe op said he tried to strangle his daughter? There might be two sides to a story but no justification for violence. He is not a safe parent.

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 01/07/2024 00:23

@Secondstart1001 Which element do you not consider to be appropriate? The fact he was wearing pants?

KittyCatKit · 01/07/2024 00:28

OP is there anyway you can get your DD to disclose what happened to the teacher without you being there?

I'm only asking this as somtimes the people on your exes side can try and say you have made DD say these things ect where as if she speaks to her teacher off her own back without you being there I think they will take it more seriously

mupersum1 · 01/07/2024 00:28

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 01/07/2024 00:23

@Secondstart1001 Which element do you not consider to be appropriate? The fact he was wearing pants?

I think the fact she didn't want to co-sleep with him (a man with a history of abuse, including strangling her) is probably enough to make it inappropriate, no?

Imagine being a six year old girl and having to sleep for the entire night in the same bed as a man, wearing only pants, who you are frightened of and do not feel safe with.

I'm baffled to see some people minimising what an inappropriate set up that is in this specific example.

I can't imagine how anxious and desperate this must be making poor OP. It's the stuff of nightmares for a parent.

Secondstart1001 · 01/07/2024 00:29

@Hellodarknessmyfriend she did not consent to sleep in the same bed and he should have been properly clothed ie wearing pjs. Your family lifestyle suits your family. This is a young girl that has not slept over at her fathers for 4 years. I find it really worrying that I have to explain the appropriateness of this to you.

And this is the final time I shall be responding to your inflammatory messages!

Incakewetrust · 01/07/2024 00:30

Please get a lawyer asap. This is absolutely horrifying. Your poor dd

Secondstart1001 · 01/07/2024 00:31

mupersum1 · 01/07/2024 00:28

I think the fact she didn't want to co-sleep with him (a man with a history of abuse, including strangling her) is probably enough to make it inappropriate, no?

Imagine being a six year old girl and having to sleep for the entire night in the same bed as a man, wearing only pants, who you are frightened of and do not feel safe with.

I'm baffled to see some people minimising what an inappropriate set up that is in this specific example.

I can't imagine how anxious and desperate this must be making poor OP. It's the stuff of nightmares for a parent.

Show quote history

Exactly this!
So worrying that the person raising these questions is a teacher, who is trained to safeguard her pupils!

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 01/07/2024 00:33

@Secondstart1001 And the last time I shall be responding to your factually incorrect ones.
We do not know, with absolute certainty, what happened when the daughter was at father's.
My best advice would be for OP to make contact with her Cafcass Officer to express her concerns and ask for advice re what to do.
I certainly would not stop contact until this is done as this may well put OP in a far worse position should father take her back to court.

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 01/07/2024 00:38

@Secondstart1001 You are very, very naive to blindly believe every account you read on MN. You are simply accepting everything on face value.
I hope the OP follows my advice as I know the family court system and Cafcass very well. There is often an incredible father bias and abuse ignored. It is so naive to think that the solution here is as easy as stopping contact.
I wonder...have you had dealings with either of these? I can probably guess the answer.

XChrome · 01/07/2024 00:54

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 01/07/2024 00:38

@Secondstart1001 You are very, very naive to blindly believe every account you read on MN. You are simply accepting everything on face value.
I hope the OP follows my advice as I know the family court system and Cafcass very well. There is often an incredible father bias and abuse ignored. It is so naive to think that the solution here is as easy as stopping contact.
I wonder...have you had dealings with either of these? I can probably guess the answer.

If we are to disbelieve people on here, there is no point in giving advice then, is there. Anybody could be lying, so we can only go by what they tell us. Unless you see a red flag that the poster is not being truthful, why would you make such an assumption? What purpose does it serve to automatically disbelieve somebody looking for advice, without any evidence the person is not being truthful? The only point I can see for that is to be inflammatory and/or to service a personal agenda, in which case you have no business giving advice.

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 01/07/2024 01:02

@XChrome Again, unfortunately I know how Cafcass and the family courts operate.
Do you?
What would your advice be?

XChrome · 01/07/2024 01:22

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 01/07/2024 01:02

@XChrome Again, unfortunately I know how Cafcass and the family courts operate.
Do you?
What would your advice be?

That's not relevant. It's deflection. The point is that this is a particular case, the truth of which none of us knows. This isn't about how things generally work. You don't know about this case. Neither do I.
Think of it like this as an analogy; generally, people don't go to jail on trivial, nonsensical charges which were completely invented by a malicious complainant who the cops and prosecutor were too stupid to recognize as such. Yet it happened to me. Would you then accuse me of lying if I was looking for support about that?
Shitty things like what has happened to the op, and what happened to me, are real problems. 100% perfect justice is non-existent. If you think it exists, you are the one who is naive.

I don't have any advice on the legal issues here. I don't even live in the UK. My point still stands.

Daisyblue77 · 01/07/2024 01:57

SNMummy2024 · 30/06/2024 00:22

Sorry OP but I am seeing things from the other side.
What do you mean by Dad has abused her? This is a very broad and subjective allegation.
I am guessing that he has gone through the usual process of supervised access, to the odd day here and there, for the court to have now reached overnight stays. This shows some dedication to his child on his part, and presumably so far everything has gone well?
The court has granted access, they wouldn't do this if he had seriously harmed her in any way. He is her Father, I assume he must have PR too, and unfortunately children say they don't want to do lots of things, but at 6, she has to do as she is told!
You cannot just go and get her! At this time of night, imagine the distress this will cause to your daughter! She may well be settled in now and, shock horror, perhaps she is enjoying herself. Or it may take some tume for her to get used to this new routine with her Dad, but you must at least give this a chance. It is her first night, she is bound to be a bit unsettled, that is the way it goes. No wonder she doesn't want to go, she is picking up negative vibes from you! But she may well begin to enjoy her new relationship with Dad if you gently encurage and support her in this.
If you do not follow that court order, and Dad isn't a danger to your daughter, you risk losing residency altogether. Extreme but it can and does happen.
So all those idiots above giving you that advice need to bare this in mind!
The court has ordered you to send her to her Dads. You have facetimed her so obviously Dad has allowed this. He could have refused if he wanted to be really spiteful.
You may well be working your daughter up as children pick up on parental anxiety. She is 6, and it is very normal for children to go and spend a night or two with their non resident parent at this age.
You, as her Mother, should be able to go a night without sniffing her hair or listening to her breathe in her sleep, she is not a six month old baby and it sounds as though your extreme attachment issues are making this transition even more nerve wracking for your poor daughter.
Your ex partner is allowed the chance to be a Dad. Even if he made a truly rotten partner. Lots of women forget this, when they conceive a child, that there are TWO parents and they are both as valid as each other.
Your daughter is not your sole property.
The courts have also decided Dad is safe and able enough to care for your daughter and that she deserves a chance to forge a relationship with him. Now you have that court order, try and put your issues aside for everyones sake.

You are seriously out of touch with the real world. Any patent can act the perfect parent when supervised, the courts can and do get it wrong all the time, this mother had gone through abuse and so had the child, its not subjective, if the court did not believe there was abuse they would not of insisted on supervised contact, you need to get some empathy, your word are hurtful and demeaning, any person who has been abused will be protective of their child. In essence you have used words to abuse this woman.well done i hope you are proud of yourself

Andwegoroundagain · 01/07/2024 06:55

OP how awful. I think you need to contact SS and maybe try to speak to someone more senior? I'm at a loss but just wanted to say I'm so sorry for you and your poor DD

Shiningout · 01/07/2024 07:02

Crikey op that's awful. I'd just try and call everyone involved that I could think of, school, social workers etc. Try and write everything down as its being said so you can recall it accurately later.

I'd also be looking at getting a really good solicitor I think, you shouldn't have to do that but honestly at this stage it's worth trying.

Didsomeonesaydogs · 01/07/2024 07:08

KittyCatKit · 01/07/2024 00:28

OP is there anyway you can get your DD to disclose what happened to the teacher without you being there?

I'm only asking this as somtimes the people on your exes side can try and say you have made DD say these things ect where as if she speaks to her teacher off her own back without you being there I think they will take it more seriously

I just wanted to highlight this post because this is what went through my mind as I was reading the thread.

@SantaFeSister if your DD can articulate this to a teacher today without you, it would carry more weight. But it’s totally understandable you want to get this dealt with asap before her next scheduled contact.

daffodilandtulip · 01/07/2024 07:17

Those who have been through the family courts will know that getting a child to tell a teacher, or trying to involve any other agencies at this stage, will put the mother at risk of losing the child altogether. This is the reality of the family courts.

Original poster
SantaFeSister · 01/07/2024 09:31

I met with the DSL this morning at DDs school. He has said if DD were to make these disclosures at school today then they would call social care. My first route is to tell the Children's Guardian from cafcass what DD has disclosed as she has a duty of care to DD irrespective of what she may think of me. I'm scared ill just be told I'm trying to frustrate contact.

I'm not sure how to go forwards with this. DD was distraught yesterday. I have never seen her this upset returning from her dad's. I was fully expecting her to tell me she had a fabulous time and she couldn't wait to go back but it was the complete opposite.

OP posts:
Natsku · 01/07/2024 09:38

I'm so sorry OP, this is so difficult for you, treading the thin line between protecting your DD and not angering cafcass/the courts and risking residency being transferred.
I really hope your DD discloses at school. Can understand your reluctance to tell cafcass though.

Your poor DD :(

I literally just found my old notebook from when I left my abusive ex, and I kept a diary of the ways he used our daughter to carry on abusing me (thankfully not actually abusing her but he did neglect her and she suffered from that, but she adored him) and remember how horrid it was trying to get the courts to agree she shouldn't be unsupervised with him (I did eventually get sole custody)

Slattern77 · 01/07/2024 09:43

I think you can only follow protocol here… hopefully it would take a lot more than this to be thought of as scuppering contact. He’s got a record, you don’t. Tell cafcass you fully expected her to enjoy it like you have here, what you did to prepare her etc and that you feel you’d be covering potential safeguarding issues if you didn’t flag it. Can you also contact your MP?