If you are a ‘professionally accomplished’ woman, how do you meet men?

[ElleintheWoods]

Just to pre-empt, I don’t think ‘success’ (titles, possessions and other things society sees as such) matters and everyone is the same. However, more and more, men and people in my life seem to highlight that it still does matter in today’s society.

In my 20s I was a top 10 university graduate working in corporate London with HNWIs, so I used to think everyone was like that and that was normal life (young and naïve, sorry!). I’ve had 2 significant long-term relationships (5+ years) and a few shorter but still serious and enjoyable ones. Never really had bad experiences with men.

I then took a step back and moved to the countryside. I’m quite a friendly and bubbly person. However, I’ve found that men see me as a bit of an alien once they get to know my background. I play my background down a lot now that I’ve found it can alienate people, but obviously things do come out once you get to know someone/ people have Google. I was in a long-term relationship with a mechanic and he would make ‘how the other half live’ comments as a joke regularly. He was also ashamed of his house and family initially. I’ve also had the ‘why would someone like you want to be with someone like me’ comment from more than one guy. Frustratedly, I asked a male friend why guys like him don’t pursue me even though they seem interested and he said ‘I’d feel like I’m punching a bit/ long-term I’d feel lesser than you’.

So it seems that although I was open to dating anyone, it doesn’t seem many men are open to dating a woman who is more professionally accomplished than them. I’m also from Denmark where ‘class/ background’ generally is a lot less at the forefront of people’s minds and it’s common for women to be dominant.

Then I met someone who seemed perfect. Committed to the mission of using his skills to improve people’s lives, had worked abroad like me, on the board of a household name company, very varied interests, deep thinker, similar childhood experiences. We had what I’d regard as the perfect relationship – theatre, shows, weekends away attending cultural events and exploring new places, good food, talking about ideas, philosophy, politics... I could be fully myself around him and share the same values. My favourite moment in our relationship was a few weeks in when he had a huge presentation at work and he called me afterwards and talked about it for an hour – it may sound boring but I knew then this was someone I could relate to. It also made me feel close to him that I was the one he wanted to share his accomplishment with.

Ultimately it did not work out but it got me thinking... I felt much more ‘at home’ with someone like that than where I had tried to force a relationship with someone very different and had to lock away parts of myself to fit in with their family and friends. So maybe it’s just easier for me to try dating men who aren’t ashamed to be ambitious and want to make a difference in society, and who like arts, classical music etc

So 2 questions to the thread:
1. If you are ‘professionally successful’, how do you feel that affects your personal life?
2. Where have you met men that pique your interest/ you’ve settled down with?

I agree with trying 'sports for mega-geeks'. I park-run, shoot clays and practice martial arts. All are good ways to meet people generally and even if I end up single, I shall be fit, supple and with good reflexes 😀

My son is fascinated by historic engineering/building techniques at the moment so I take him to blacksmithing/slating/thatching demos, which attract a different group.

Most of the people I swim with are female. I've done a couple of Swimtrek holidays which I can't recommend enough. Their target market is independent wealthy women over 50, most of whom are self-made and really interesting people. The selection of sunbathing reading material taken makes for amazing discussions. There are normally a few younger people too. Unlikely to help with dating though!

I lived in Zürich for a while which was an interesting contrast to some PPs experiences of dating in finance. There are lots of internationals, mostly men, working at banks, the big tech universities and google. There were so few international women (and Swiss weren't interested) that they had to adapt to tolerate smart women or give up and stick to prostitutes. A smart successful women was definitely seen as a trophy especially for the non-Europeans, but I suspect long term only on the basis of "she gave all that up for me". I was an academic high flier with long hours though, rather than well paid. They might have also enjoyed being able to flash their credit cards knowing there was that power imbalance.

Just make sure you don't get too good at whichever sport you choose. The same thing applies for sporting achievements as for academic ability of course. When they find out it can be quite tricky. Varies from patronising misunderstandings to joky banter put downs to outright full on aggressive competitiveness. On the whole it doesn't go down well, I have found.

Both.

I married someone who was the same background as me ... middle class, Oxbridge, City job etc.
He got made redundant and that changed everything I think looking back. He verbally said he was pleased with my success but in reality he wasn't. I had to minimise my career success and felt quite worried about telling him about bonuses etc.
In the end we split up. For other reasons but that's another story. But I see now that I couldn't be my full self with him.
I'm with a guy now who is utterly different. He celebrates my success without a trace of bitterness, he works hard but not ambitious in the sense of trying to get to the top of a company and I am also a lot less career focused, nevertheless still a lot more senior than he is. But basically I found that it's down to the personality more than having the same background
We met on Bumble if that helps !

ok. Point taken!

I work in City law. Quite a few of my colleagues live a long commute away and only come to the office a couple of days a week, so not incompatible any more with country living.

I am scrolling through my colleagues in my head. There are a few older men (now late fifties/60s) who have stay at home wives who never had careers. Also thinking about the school parents at my son’s private school. The vast majority are married to other lawyers and professionals (finance, insurance, teaching, engineering, logistics, doctors). I think it is true that most met either at University or in that early twenties young professional flat sharing time. I’m not sure that any of them (male or female) would really be confortable with a partner who was not as educated and professionally accomplished as them (I include here couples where one of them has perhaps taken a voluntary step back but who could have progressed had they wanted to; even then they tend not to have given up work completely).

I think it’s unrealistic to aspire to an intellectually unequal relationship if you are someone to whom books, the Arts etc is important.

And yes, I think that the pickings are slim in your thirties. I was in a LTR in my twenties that ended when I was thirty (he was a friend of a law school contemporary of mine, I had been at Cambridge and he had been at Oxford). He decided he wanted to marry someone from his own religion (he had originally said it didn't matter but he changed his mind 5 years later when push came to shove).

So I spent the first half of my thirties in a relationship wilderness. I did date a train driver briefly but he was an ex-engineer. And a police officer, but he was re qualifying as a lawyer.

Met my husband at 36 when we were both working abroad, in an expat community stuffed full of lawyers, bankers, IT directors…you get the picture. He is a senior manager in an investment bank. He was only 32 when we met, had no baggage as he was just on the outside of the usual range for people waiting for “the one” to come along. He was the last of his group of close uni friends to get married. We have an almost identical family background in terms of social mobility and he also went to Cambridge.

What am I trying to say here? That most relationships that work tend to be of equal education, and also that you’re more likely than not to end up with someone quite similar to you. I even tried really hard to go for men who were physically not like me- all my exes had dark eyes and hair but my husband is a pasty Celt just like me!

PS I’d also say that both DH and I come from small towns and have zero in common now with our schoolmates who never left them.

@Unopenedpackofmenssocks where do you suggest we go to meet them?

Well, OP is already going to work events, that’s a good place. As I said, I found myself in an expat environment with lots of people who had moved to that city to do similar jobs- the fact we were all abroad meant that there was lots of group socialising (for everyone, not just singles) and I think that there were more singles there as quite a few people had taken the jobs abroad precisely because they had no ties and so were quite mobile. So I’d personally recommend moving continents for work!

@Unopenedpackofmenssocks - great insights and I agree that equality of education does seem in most cases to equal stability.
Where broadly speaking did you move to ie somewhere like Dubai or Singapore? work for a US financial institution and my highly educated female colleagues are equally single so I am not sure moving to the US would resolve my dating woes.

As a guy/man
You can encounter similar issues meeting women, Can be universal if you're successfull professionally. For me, 5 years in the city in management consulting and now working for a telco/Media company, can be intimidating if trying to meet a partner, especially on dating sites/apps.

You can never under estimate the importance of social stratification, education and background as a differentiater when finding someone compatible, has largely been my experience. Similar hobbies and interests outside of work, and inherent personality traits can't be overlooked. I've always tried to be easy going, approachable, down to Earth, irrespective of professional persona.

I have suggested that the OP look at different approaches but it’s clear that she is only engaging with specific people who are essentially echoing her own views and not really open to much change. There are lots of good suggestions here but unfortunately I really think it’s down to luck, being kind, flexible and open minded. My children are all slightly younger than the OP and the latest any of them found a serious partner was 28, earliest 20. Previous partners before they found ‘the one’ were all very nice too. I’ve no real idea why ‘the one’ was ‘the one’ but I knew straight away from almost the first date. The children and their partners are all early stage in serious professional careers - think accountant, lawyer, doctor, dentist, consultant etc. The are all accomplished in other things like elite university sport, diploma level musicianship, talented artist and writer, multinational multilingual background. How did they meet? Online dating, work related social event, university, through friends, there is no discernible pattern. I’m not sure this helps the OP.

@Bluebird101 - unfortunately suggesting being flexible and having different approaches doesn’t quite work the same way past your 20s when 60% -80% of the population are single. And there is a very high correlation between high earners/high education status and marriage - the Marriage Foundation found that 87% of high quartile earners were married in 2015.

My XH had a successful career as do I, he always supported me in my ambitions. He has remarried someone who never had a high flying career as such but always worked very hard and is happy and kind and it works well for them.

Other than it working for me and my children?

@StamppotAndGravy There were so few international women (and Swiss weren't interested) that they had to adapt to tolerate smart women

Sorry, what on earth makes you think men can't tolerate smart women? Again, men don't care.

I would be more than happy to have a high-earning individual boosting my living standards and buying nice gifts for me.

Anyway I have no further advice to give, the thread is essentially a number of people reinforcing the idea that it’s not likely or even possible to meet someone and ignoring any other advice. It’s not easy but it’s possible to change your mindset and try other things if you are open to it. This might work or it might not but there’s nothing wrong with trying if you are open minded and flexible in your approach. If a couple of the children’s partners hadn’t been open minded enough to date someone quite a bit younger than them or someone from a different cultural background then they may never have found a wonderful committed partner. But there you go, that’s all I can offer from the other point of view ie found someone by being more open and flexible in outlook. Thanks and goodbye.🙄😳

I met mine on Tinder of all places! We started with no expectations as both have DC and high pressure (in very different fields) jobs. It has evolved into a comitted relationship that suits us both. He is the first man I have been with who after nearly 2 years is not intimidated by my education, professional acumen or financial situation. He celebrates my successes and supports my drive. He is refreshing after years of men who said one thing and then resented me for my success. He is also a very successful alpha male, so we are equals and it feels great. They are out there OP, where you least expect them! I will say, I did a lot of work on myself in therapy and was content with my life before I met him.

I posted this as in an earlier post it was mentioned that successful men in their 50s and 60s have stay at home wives. Not in my circle! In fact there are some stay at home husbands.

Similar story here!

The general consensus is that the “good men” don’t get divorced, because, well, they are the ones worth staying with. The ones back in the market are usually there for a good reason.

The overwhelming majority of men cannot afford a stay at home wife and would never want one for this reason. Though given that a huge number of people on mumsnet are extremely high earners (£80k - £100k, or even more) this fact is probably not well understood on here.

Deleted.

Yes, Asia not the US.