How to handle Mum who doesn't seem capable of normal conversation

[GrowingBetter]

My mum clearly wants a closer relationship with me but I find it so hard to relate to her. She's always been a SAHM apart from tiny bits of tutoring here and there, nothing consistent.

I wouldn't say I'm particularly career driven but I've always worked and enjoy my work, it's a big part of my life. She has no idea how to make conversation about my work which would be fine on it'l was the only issue between us.

She never rings me for a chat but always likes to WhatsApp message me in an instant message type style. Which I find really annoying. If I call her she's shocked and thinks something's wrong.

Every couple of weeks she'll send me an overly sentimental/ gushing message saying by how she loves and misses me and has been thinking about me, which I have no idea how to reply to, and just irks me tbh. She doesn't put a question in it so I don't even know if she wants me to reply and I don't want to encourage it anyway.

I know she means well but I'd rather her just call me and have a normal chat to catch up, which she seems to be incapable of.

I feel like I need to accept her for who she is but who she is is very difficult to relate to.

Can anyone relate to this? How do you handle it?

The back story is that she moved abroad with my dad when was 19 years old for about 15 years, in that time I got married and had kids. Now they are back in the UK but live about 2 hours away from me. I see them every two months for a weekend or so. (I'm glad that they live that distance from me as I imagine she would be suffocating if she was in the same town as me).

Could she be described as emotionally immature? I only bring this up because of my experience with DM.

As I’ve gotten older, I just appreciate her as a person and keep to things she is comfortable with. Eg. Shopping, recipes, grandkids.

If I need to discuss career, future study opportunities etc I choose someone else to discuss those things with.

It has really helped me enjoy her again and we are very close. As I’m not expecting her to be what she’s not.

There was a thread on Relationships here where someone was discussing similar and I don't think you're alone!

Could she be ND...capable of presenting in a mainstream way, but also internally very childlike and not really capable of actually acknowledging or listening or seeing another persons point of view?

Lots of older people who (if they weren't being steered or financially protected by a partner or parents) would clearly be massively struggling.

If anything changes outside of their little sphere of control they can't cope.

Sometimes if they get OK jobs for life where they have set roles they're fine in these, but outside of this they really cannot comprehend anything else.

Ultimately you just have to prioritise and build your own peace.

Practice detachment and acceptance - as a pp says just give her messages a smiley or thumbs up and leave them there.

Treat her like a slightly eccentric aunt.

Ah that makes sense that way round.

Do you think she feels some shame and regret and now struggles to acknowledge leaving you? It may be that without your dad she’s a bit lost and she was too scared to tell him she would stay while he went because she thought she wouldn’t be able to manage on her own and doesn’t want to admit it?

Maybe she’s scared something will happen to your dad and she doesn’t have anyone else to look out for her?

My children are in their 20s and 30s my mum was a young gran and she didn't really do much or help out or offer much support, I do get it I often thought why isn't she interested my own gran was great we came from a huge extended family and my mum was so insular it's really odd and it does sting when other mums are talking about how great their mums are.

Also I think you may be more angry with your dad because mums are held to a different standards. Mums are supposed to put always put their kids first but some don’t. I’m NC with mine so I’m not judging you at all, mine was specifically vicious and abusive toward me rather than basically helpless. I think it hurt more because I think we are all brought up to think mums are supposed to love you best, there was a particular sting about being rejected by my mother even though my dad was not great either.

This is a useful read : Adult Children of Emotionally immature parents. By Lindsay Gibson.

Another way to have your therapist help you is to acknowledge that you can't get her to communicate in a way that you are able to cope with/comfortable with and to accept that.

It's a bit like talking to her in Spanish and getting upset because she can't reply as she doesn't speak the language. I'd really work on just dropping your expectations - anyone that can leave a teenager at such a pivotal moment isn't suddenly going to have an epiphany and realise she let you down.

Grieve for the relationship you wanted and should have had. It is really really hard to accept I know x

OP I feel like I understand this on some level

when I visit my parents I feel like me and my mum have nothing to talk about as she doesn’t do anything
She works part time and I get rambling stories about random people. She hardly goes out and doesn’t have many friends so we can’t have the normal chit chat about anything she’s been up to or done

I get comments about her missing me when I walk through the door but when I sit down the first question she asks me is how my cats are. After that there’s very little
I feel a little resentment as I work a lot plus a long commute with a generally busy life so can’t always stop over for, what I view as, an empty visit

Her mum left her at 19. Your post is silly.

Yes to this.

And the very low self esteem would be part of the picture.

My relationship with my mum is difficult, although in different ways from yours.

One thing which I’ve found helpful is reframing it as the relationship is as good as it can be in the circumstances.

I also find it hugely helpful doing something together- even if it’s just a mooch round the town centre - so that the focus isn’t all on chatting. Would your parents be up for days our together for example?

I miss my late mum so much. Our relationship wasn't perfect. But I now wonder how much she was trying to shield me from.

Perhaps her regret at leaving you and not seeing her GCs when they were tiny overwhelms her?

Good that you want to have a better relationship with her. How is she with your DCs?

@NC10125 yeah you're right we do have a better time when we are doing things. I do enjoy days when we take my kids out for a country walk. I think I need to just accept that that's what the relationship is good for. But when she messages me I know she wants more. I want more too but it's like neither of us know how to get to it. That sounds a bit ridiculous doesn't it.

@Aldertrees she's great with the kids.

Yes it probs does overwhelm her. But everything overwhelms her....she's highly sensitive. She doesn't watch TV as too many things would upset her. She never asks me how I'm getting on with the divorce....I know she cares but I think it overwhelms her. Like if my dad left her I think she would literally die of a broken heart. She wouldn't be able to function without him. She probably thinks I'm another species to her since I'm not crumbling through the divorce.

She's not perfect, but she's your mum and she loves you. She obviously wants a closer relationship with you, but maybe doesn't know how to make that happen. You say you want that too. I would just pick up the phone and let her talk to you about whatever she wants to. Maybe she doesn't have the listening skills most people have got.

Fucking off abroad and leaving a teenager is not putting heart and soul into raising your child.

That is one year after voting age, the op wouldn't have been judged capable of drinking alcohol in many US states, that is not a true adult. Young people that age often need their parents in a different - but no.less important - way than kids.
Females are also particularly vulnerable in a way males are not.

I couldn't consider anyone a good parent who did that.

Her gushy messages after fucking off abroad for 15 years (during which she'd also only have seen her grandkids periodically or digitally too) would be very irritating.

Lots of words; words are easy.

Who the fuck leaves a teenage girl in a different country, and then doesn't move back for 15 years.

She's probably thinking about old age now, and thinking she better lick around you like nobody's business to try to get a close relationship back in case she needs your help and support. She's well aware she's been extremely lacking in the past and is probably worried she'll reap what she sowed.

Your info about how dependent she is on your Dad and how incapable, anxious etc she is in general...confirm to me what I think; she's old enough now to think about what will happen to her if something happens to your Dad. She's trying to set up carers/people to do everything for her. That's what all the gushy, attempted bonding is probably aimed at.

I'm afraid my view of someone who did what she did when you were 19 and only moved back 15 years later, is that they were selfish then, and they're unsurprisingly, still selfish now.

I couldn't abide someone who left the country when I was teenager for 15 years, gushing decades later about how much they love me .. . Which just happens to coincide with their increasing awareness of aging and their own vulnerability & lack of capability.

Do you think she has a personality disorder. I have a sister a bit like this who has NPD.

She is very happy to do her own thing with her husband, until she needs something from someone or it seems like she will need something; then she's suddenly wanting a close relationship with members of our family. If her problem was solved eg by a windfall, you'd barely hear from her again for months.

Perhaps her regret at leaving you and not seeing her GCs when they were tiny overwhelms her?

She managed not to be overwhelmed by it for 15 long years lol.

It all really smacks of "we'll do what we like/what suits us best ...until we're approaching later middle age, then we'll move back and build up a relationship with our kids for support for if/when we need it".

They think of themselves, primarily, by the looks of it.

Every couple of weeks she'll send me an overly sentimental/ gushing message saying by how she loves and misses me and has been thinking about me, which I have no idea how to reply to, and just irks me tbh

This is what a heart emoji was made for. Just 'like' the message with a heart and leave it there.

Hear hear.

I dread to think what could have happened to me if my parents had done that. And I'm not even particularly unstable.

I'm in admiration of you, op, that you coped and had your own family etc.

They are not responsible or good parents in my book and can't ever be considered so.

I went through a bout of depression iny 30s the winter after finishing a long relationship. My parents had me to stay at their house for company & support, and even after I moved back to my own, my Mum said to come to theirs for dinner every evening so I had a square meal (I'd lost weight) and didn't have to start cooking after work etc.
That's a parent.

They didn't consider their child turning 18 to be a klaxon for "our job is done, byeee".

@GrowingBetter

She never rings me for a chat but always likes to WhatsApp message me in an instant message type style. Which I find really annoying. If I call her she's shocked and thinks something's wrong.
Why do you think your style of communication is better than hers?

Every couple of weeks she'll send me an overly sentimental/ gushing message saying by how she loves and misses me and has been thinking about me, which I have no idea how to reply to,

Why is this hard to reply to. Most people wouldn't find it hard to reply to unless perhaps you are ASD?
and just irks me tbh.
Why? This sounds like a you problem.
She doesn't put a question in it so I don't even know if she wants me to reply
Again this sounds like you struggle to understand communication that isn't concrete. Nothing in what you have described is peculiar from her part.

Why does there need to be a question for you to reply?

I know she means well but I'd rather her just call me and have a normal chat to catch up, which she seems to be incapable of.
Why are you incapable of having a text conversation?
Many many people don't enjoying speaking on the phone.
You really seem to have disregarded the possibility that you are the one with difficulties with typical communication.

You are ok with your dad making the decision to chase his career even though it would take them away from you yet you resent your mother?

You really sound very confused. Your poor mum.

Have you considered she is not the only ND person in the family?

My mum used to complain that my grandmother was a cold, stern woman.
She never realised that she was a cold, stern woman herself.
When I was looking after them in their later years, my dad moved from sitting next to her over by the tv to up at the counter with me while I made dinner — and we had lively conversations. I think he was starved for someone to talk to.
Now that they’re both gone, I worry that that hurt Mum’s feelings.
Twice in the past two days I’ve told two different women to put down the bags of guilt they’re carrying - and now look at me.

It sounds more and more like ND.

I spent a few years in academia, and I suspect the levels of undiagnosed ND are probably way above the average population.

There's that real sense of many older people who are super-sensitive/anxious/childish/governed by their feelings, but also completely oblivious to the feelings of others.

They seem to need others to be there when they want them or to keep up appearances....whilst not adhering to basic social norms themselves, or bothering with the work required to keep a connection.

You have senior academics demanding everyone turns up to a "fun social event"

...where the vast majority of regulars huddle in a corner and refuse to greet or acknowledge new people or make basic pleasant conversation (yes, often the conversation will steer to irrelevant random anecdotes about people only they know).

Then they send messages complaining that not enough people attend, and they really wanted everyone to bond, and they're not sure why attendance is down 80%.

There's no self-awareness about how their behaviour drives people away.

However, there is that craving to have relationships and "appear popular and connected normal". It's clear they're not happy.

But not unhappy enough to want to change or acknowledge that other people have their own feelings, and you can't consistently ignore people or talk over them then be shocked when they start WFH!

Obviously your road to peace is your own.

But I'd definitely learn more about ND behaviour. For many older people, it simply wouldn't have been diagnosed.