How to handle Mum who doesn't seem capable of normal conversation

[GrowingBetter]

My mum clearly wants a closer relationship with me but I find it so hard to relate to her. She's always been a SAHM apart from tiny bits of tutoring here and there, nothing consistent.

I wouldn't say I'm particularly career driven but I've always worked and enjoy my work, it's a big part of my life. She has no idea how to make conversation about my work which would be fine on it'l was the only issue between us.

She never rings me for a chat but always likes to WhatsApp message me in an instant message type style. Which I find really annoying. If I call her she's shocked and thinks something's wrong.

Every couple of weeks she'll send me an overly sentimental/ gushing message saying by how she loves and misses me and has been thinking about me, which I have no idea how to reply to, and just irks me tbh. She doesn't put a question in it so I don't even know if she wants me to reply and I don't want to encourage it anyway.

I know she means well but I'd rather her just call me and have a normal chat to catch up, which she seems to be incapable of.

I feel like I need to accept her for who she is but who she is is very difficult to relate to.

Can anyone relate to this? How do you handle it?

The back story is that she moved abroad with my dad when was 19 years old for about 15 years, in that time I got married and had kids. Now they are back in the UK but live about 2 hours away from me. I see them every two months for a weekend or so. (I'm glad that they live that distance from me as I imagine she would be suffocating if she was in the same town as me).

Yes, it’s death by a thousand cuts. People who are lucky enough not to have a fraught relationship with their mother find it hard to understand. Indeed some things are imperceptible to anyone but my mum and me. Tension over the most trivial of things. It can make you go crazy if you let it.

I just remembered something DM does that is similar to your mum sending gushy texts, which is, right in the middle of a conversation she will just pout and tell me I look beautiful. Now that might seem like nothing - even a nice gesture - to some, but I know, and DM knows, this is her demonstrating that she doesn’t take me seriously and has no interest in my life/what I have to say. The relationship has completely broken down.

Does everyone's mum? Mine wouldn't have a clue either. That scheme is fairly recent.

This.

And it sounds as if she wouldn't have been much help to you in choosing and settling in to university either, with such poor self esteem and seemingly little initiative.

It seems to me that both of your parents were products of families where connections weren't strong.

@Crushed23 exactly!

@mathanxiety

Youve hit the nail on the head about their families. Yet they crave closeness and are absolutely clueless about how to get it.

I’m afraid I agree OP: the problems and the conversation difficulties are yours as much as hers. She likes what’s app but you like phone, and that’s apparently get at fault. You like childcare costs and your job as a topic; I possibly wouldn’t want talk to you about either - certainly not the latter. If I’m totally honest, I feel as though you are projecting your views about her career onto her a lot . You think she is out of touch and you judge her for not working so you are quick to assume she feels it that way too. Maybe you make that obvious? Maybe you make it obvious that you don’t think her conversation is up to scratch and so she finds what’s app style easier as she still wants to stay in touch but finds childcare costs quite hard going as a discussion topic. Being a career woman doesn’t automatically make you interesting. I had lunch with an insurance broker a while back who was VERY keen to talk about it. Frankly, I’d rather have had a retired lady talking about her garden and which roses were doing well . Your interests aren’t interesting to everyone.

There are plenty of threads on here where mothers couldn’t give a toss . Why don’t you try to value the affection she sends your way? I detect a lot of resentment about her leaving but in all honesty 19 isn’t a baby. She and her DH were entitled to a life incorporating a move/ travel having raised a family to that point.

I find it much easier to cope with my mum when I see her as a person so it might help you to frame things differently if you see her more clearly.

I wonder if she is neurodivergent? She struggles emotionally, doesn’t work (I wonder if her lifestyle with your dad means she can avoid something which would otherwise cause her stress), didn’t cook/clean as SAHM (I wonder if it’s an ADHD type thing there), communicates in a way that sounds a little erratic, and finds any meaningful conversation with you nigh on impossible.

What was her own upbringing and childhood like?

For me therapy has really improved my relationship both with my mother and with myself. It's our first relationship in life, the relationship with our mother. It sounds like you feel very let down by your mother and hurt by her inability to understand you and your life experiences. It's not for everyone but I found that therapy helped me to be able to relate more to my mother, maybe give it a go.

@Calliopespa I don't talk to her about childcare, or my work as I know she won't get it. So that leaves me with telling her about my plans and she never remembers them or takes interest in them.

I could indulge her and let her tell me about long stories of her neighbours or stories from her childhood. She often gets emotional when she tells these stories...I don't know why she brings them up.

I guess I should just talk to her about my kids as I know she loves them. But evidently didn't want to be part of their life for the first few years! 😂😭

@Durdledore I'm coming to realise I think she's autistic and ADHD. I don't know what to do with that though.

Also - and I know this is a well worn MN trope - but is it possible your mum's self esteem was damaged by undiagnosed autism, even mild, or adhd?

Yes probably.

It’s just something to know, you don’t have to do anything with it. It just helps me with my mum whenever I remember she has xyz because it helps me to compassionate towards her and also to see her more clearly.

Instead of railing against her for not being who I need her to be, seeing her for the (fucking maddening but loving) person she is.

It’s all a journey isn’t it, any relationship is, and this was your earliest first relationship. This stuff isn’t easy. We’re all little kids when it comes to our mums, but the more I see my mum through my adult eyes, the better our relationship is. The more boundaried it is, I think too.

I understand. I’m NC with both parents for a multitude of reasons but over the 15+ years I was desperately trying to keep some kind of relationship going, the conversation was painful tbh. I know what you mean by ‘incapable of normal conversation’ - my dad would arrive at my house, sit down looking very awkward and ask one or two very token questions with me frantically jabbering on to try to keep the atmosphere light. It’s like he had no social skills and couldn’t do a back and forth chat, just ask how work was going then was utterly lost or just couldn’t be bothered. And everything I said he would reply in an awkward or defensive way. It was the pits. No advice as I haven’t seen him for 5 years 😔

I can see it from your perspective, I was a sahp for some years and, along with my relationship, it destroyed my confidence. It shouldn't be this way but being paid to do even really dull tasks really helps self-esteem.

You have realised that she won't talk through your hurt. So you will need to come to terms with it without her help.

On a practical note, it might help build a relationship just by concentrating on small talk, so something in the news/whats on tv/ what's she having for dinner/the weather. You might be able to build from that slowly.

I think you are getting some unnecessary harsh replies on here! I'm surprised. You feel the way you do for a reason. I appreciate that many kids blame their parents and carry this on into adulthood.
What I read here instead is a difficulty in the relationship with some examples why but also where OP probably can't quite put her finger on it.

It took me an entire lifetime with years of therapy to realise my mum is a narcissist. She definitely is, this isn't me throwing it out there.

Often this is what we're dealing with and explains inconsistencies in behaviour and a feeling of disconnect. It can take time to see that some behaviours you skirted over are actually appalling.

Autism and narcissism can sometimes be mistaken for each other. Autistic individuals ( unless also narcissistic) do not display some difficult behaviours out of dark intent, whereas narcissists do.

Sorry you're getting walloped on this thread, OP. I see the 'I did my own washing once I started primary school and paid board from age 10' brigade are oug in force.

Nothing would have made me leave a 19 year old to fend for themselves. No wonder you have such conflicted feelings.

It's very easy to look around and see how 'everyone else' is helped by grandparents. Many, many mums have no support at all. You are, understandably, looking through a filter.

It seems like you've somehow been able to speak to your dad and move past things. It seems your mum is much less able in terms of relationship and communication skills. She really does sound a bit like she's in her own little bubble. It's hard to know whether this just is her nature. Obviously, by never working and doing minimal parenting, she has protected herself from developing those skills. Neurodiversity or vulnerable narcissism may or may not have a part to play. I personally think the ND aspect is a bit insulting to all those actually ND people who go to enormous lengths to know what is needed from a parent and to show up.

Some posters have been really very unkind to you, for no good reason. You owe your mum absolutely nothing. You've been clear, though, that you'd like things to improve. Have you had any therapy? If not, please consider it. I think you're profoundly impacted by being abandoned by your parents. Therapy would be a safe place to think about that impact and to think about your current and future wants and needs.

Piecing together what you’ve said, I think your mum sounds like she might have some additional needs.

I used to fume at my DM and her lack of engagement, but I now realise she’s autistic (DS1 was diagnosed and I did a bit of reflection of family links).

Its enabled me to go a bit easier on her, and lower my expectations.

How on EARTH do you know this, having never met OP or her mother and having no information about OP's childhood, ffs?

What was her childhood like - what’s her relationship with siblings?

Everything @kittybiscuits said! With bells on.

I am wondering how many people replying here are actually GPs hence completely invalidating your feelings about all this.

Signs she might be ND (and has adopted maladaptive coping mechanisms - these are not necessarily signs in earlier life, more older ND):

Elevenerifing (you’ve been to Tenerife, she’s been to Elevenerife)
Bringing all conversations back to her
Interrupting
Not listening
Changing the subject
Holding onto grudges
Failing to perspective-change
Lack of boundaries (she goes along with things to people please)
Making everything about her, including others achievements

She will also have lovely traits that you want to draw out and build upon.

A few people have mentioned therapy. I do have a therapist that I see semi regularly to get me through my divorce. I'm in a really good place mentally and emotionally now. It's like now that I'm in a better place I have the capacity to fine tune the smaller issues in my life and this is one of them.

I'll consider talking to my therapist about my relationship with my mum.

All the back stuff with my mum ... obviously it's still affects me but really I just want to be able to communicate with my mum in a more satisfying way for our current relationship.

What ND profiles does this fit because tbh a friend works with the elderly and these are traits she mentions ( constantly) as relating predominantly to age ( and I notice you also say they are “ more older nd.”) Atd you sure you aren’t just treating old age as neuro divergent ?

No I don’t think these are ND traits/profiles, I think they’re maladaptive coping mechanisms emerging after years of being invalidated, perhaps due to ND.