Confused- sex when one person doesn’t want to

[noitsachicken]

I’m married with children. Things haven't been great, DH can be up and down with his moods and easily become cross at times. But most of the time things are ok, he does he fair share around the house and lots with the children.
Recently I haven’t always been in the mood for sex, I am perimenopausal and when he has been cross with me or the kids I just don’t want to.
I tend to avoid it by going to bed early, but sometimes I can’t and just say no, but this often leads to sulking, and can affect his mood.
A few times recently he has tried to start something, I’ve sometimes been asleep, sometimes I’ve said no, and not reciprocated but he has carried on. I just kind of froze and let it happen.
I’m not sure if I’ve not been clear enough, I feel like my body language is clear, one time my legs were crossed and he pushed them apart.
But maybe I need to just say No and deal with the moodiness.

The most recent time I was led there and he was touching me, I hadn’t said anything and he was carrying on. He was being a little more rough than usual, eventually I said ‘you’re hurting me’ he stopped and apologised.

I don’t feel like he has forced me into sex, but feel like it’s clear I don’t want to but he has carried on.

I’ve lost sight of what is ok.

This is what my exH did to me. It is rape. Waking up to find your husband pawing at you and more is awful. Giving in when you don't want to, because it is easier to just get it over and done with than deal with persistent demands, that's coercive and rape. This is what I learnt from Women's Aid. Please get some support and work out a way to leave.

I suspect there's also something dodgy about how he's 'cross' with you and the kids.

I’m becoming so grossed out these repetitive stories about the rapey men MNers are married to. Isn’t it weird I’ve never ever read a story about a women refusing to take no for an answer? Why is that?

Sex when one person doesn't want to is rape

Your husband is a rapist.

It is not possible for a rapist to be a good father or a good husband. The whole "being a rapist" thing strikes out any ostensibly good acts. Surely you don't want your children brought up by someone who thinks rape is ok?

Shockingly this was only made illegal in the 1990s but illegal it is. Get out of there. Get the police involved. Get yourself to a womens shelter until he is out of the house and you have a court order against him.

I’m so sorry op but I echo everyone above me who says this is rape. That must be so hard for you to hear but it’s true.

you have kids- you don’t say how old they are but can you imagine if one of yours told you that this happened to them? Would you feel it was acceptable? No of course not so why is it ok for him to do it to you? Multiple times too.

rapists are not always strangers who hide in a bush and grab a stranger, they’re often known to you as is your case. It’s an extreme word to use but what he’s doing is an extreme act. You said no. He ignores you. That is rape.

i hope you are ok.

Sex when only one person wants it is rape. I’m sorry. You obviously need to leave him and I hope you are able to get support to work through how you must be feeling.

My lovely - this is rape. Just because you 'let' it happen does not mean that it is consensual because it is NOT. You are freezing as a protection mechanism because your brain knows that you are under attack. Rape is not always violent or by someone that you do not know. Your husband is a rapist and feels entitled to use your body because you are HIS in his eyes. An individual (I can not say man) who does this does not love you or value you. He doesn't care that you're not up for it - he is and he will 'take' it regardless. I suspect that this behaviour is becoming more frequent? When confronted he will say that he didn't know that you didn't consent, that he isn't harming you, that he is entitled to want 'his' wife, that you should be flattered that he still wants you etc etc etc. It's all crap because he knows it's not right and that he has forced himself upon you. He will tell himself that because he's not targeting random women on the street he can't possibly be a rapist. Because he's not using force (as in beating you) then he can't possibly be a rapist - he will use every justification that he can think to 'prove' to you that he's not a rapist. But...he is.

So what do you do? You can not carry on as you are as you are not safe - this will escalate. Please contact Women's Aid and at least discuss what is going on. They will confirm that what is being done to you is wrong and an offence.
Talking to him (as some will suggest) is not advisable as he will gaslight you into believing that he's done nothing wrong. Go to WA and just talking to someone will help you decide what to do whether that's asking him to leave, leaving yourself with DC, reporting him to the police etc.

I think that the most important question is for you - what do you think that he will do if you confront him? What do you want? Do you want to model this relationship as an example of a good one to your DC? Do you want to be continually raped by someone who is supposed to love, cherish, support and respect you?

You know it’s not OK.
It doesn’t make you feel good. It makes you feel bad. He has NO right to be touching you when you’re asleep and NO right to be touching you when you have said no. No is no.
Find your anger and get him told.
No wonder you don’t feel like sleeping with him.

I'm so sorry but he is raping you. You must leave this relationship and contact the police.

Are you FOR REAL?

CONSENT SHOULD BE ENTHUSIASTIC

OP's partner/husband is performing sex acts on her, repeatedly, without consent. She CANNOT consent if she is asleep (or faking sleep, either way SHE DOES NOT CONSENT BECAUSE SHE IS ASLEEP).

This is not a case of miscommunication, he should know that IT IS NOT OK to engage in sex with someone who has not given consent.

Sorry you're going through this op. I would say that you should have a conversation with him about consent, but seeing as he doesn't care about anything unless he gets his end away, your marriage is dead in the water. He has no respect for you at all - rape aside his behavior is co-ersive at best - sulking I f he doesn't get his own way is abusive.

Ducks in a row time.

Also just like to point out that the sulking is a prime example of coercive control. I'm sorry that I missed the last bit about H getting rough? This is concerning as this indicates an escalation of his behaviour and the stopping when you said it hurt would tell me that he is perfectly aware of what he's doing. I would also bet good money that he watches porn and that his tastes in it are getting more 'extreme/violent'? Is there also a possibility that he's filmed/photographed you without consent too?
You really need to urgently talk to Women's Aid. You are in a dangerous predicament.

And while I was posting the first rape apologist arrives @Keepthosenamesgoing - you should be ashamed and need some educating. Forcing a woman's legs apart to gain entry is rape and indicates a firm no and not enthusiastic consent.

People on here of course will advise contacting the police but in the absence of any evidence, the police are unlikely to proceed as it will be your word against his.

Even if the conviction were to stand, you need to consider the potential
fallout for your DH and your DCs and your family unit and wider family if you pursue a rape conviction. It will be life changing and not in a good way.

However saying that, it does sound like your marriage is over. I was going to suggest telling him that his bad moods are making you not want to have sex with him and perhaps he should rethink how he speaks and acts around you but I think that communication between you has long since ceased to be ineffective.

I'm not telling you to LTB but in the event you do want to save your marriage you both need to start communicating more effectively. Easier said than done of course.

No need to shout at me... I did say that if he was having sex without consent it was rape. I was not clear from the post what was actually happening so my mistake if I got it wrong.

What you describe happened to me once: I didn’t want sex with my then boyfriend, I found him pushy and had even told him earlier that day I’d gone off sex and wanted some space. That night I didn’t respond when he tried to touch me in bed, but he just went ahead anyway. I froze. In the morning I woke up and ended it with him.

It was rape and I should have reported him, because went on to rape his next girlfriend (who got in touch with me in hysterics, blaming herself) and at least one other girl outside a music venue. His own mother asked me if I broke up with him because he forced himself on me. She said “I know my son”.

It’s about entitlement, power and control. I’m so sorry this is how you’re living x

Jesus f christ. I am not a rape apologist

I did acknowledge that it could be rape
I did say I was not clear on what had happened

I offered some suggestions in case it was not rape.

Pushing your legs apart is forcing you into sex. He's a rapist.

I think a lot of the responses here are a little irresponsible. OP said her husband tries to initiate sex when she doesn’t want to. She wasn’t clear on whether he follows through with it and they have sex (against her will) or whether he eventually gets the message and stops. All those posters saying “he’s a rapist” should back off, until OP gives more details. He may be, but there isn’t enough detail in OP’s post to say for sure.

Secondly, saying “it’s rape unless both partners want it and enjoy it” is categorically untrue, at least as a matter of law. Consent is nothing to do with enjoyment. It’s about agreement.

As an example, imagine a man forcibly has sex with a woman, without her consent. He’s prosecuted for rape and in court says “but she seemed to be enjoying it, so I thought that was ok.” Is that a defence? The answer is no, obviously not, because the test is consent.

But imagine a different example. A couple in a settled relationship decide to try for a baby. She is keener on the baby than he is. One day she says “let’s have sex, because we want a baby.” He’s really not in the mood - maybe he’s tired, maybe it’s the second time today. But he reluctantly agrees, because he knows his partner really wants a baby. They go ahead, but he doesn’t enjoy it. Is that rape? The answer is no, because he consented, albeit reluctantly. No crime has occurred.

Now personally, I think trying to persuade someone to have sex they don’t really want is a serious issue, and I would question a relationship where that was a frequent occurrence. So morally I’m not fine with it. I suspect most posters on this thread are also not fine with it. But my feelings on the issue, and everyone else’s, are legally irrelevant. Rape is a legal term, and a very serious one. It shouldn’t be thrown around casually. What OP is experiencing may or may not be rape but she hasn’t given enough detail to say for certain (and she’s under no obligation to) and until/unless she does we should stop telling her that this is what she’s experiencing.

@Keepthosenamesgoing
So forcing a woman's legs apart (that were crossed I add) and shoving it in anyway just 'might' be rape then? This is not a misunderstanding is it????
Those who advocate talking about it - would you advocate the same if he was beating her first? Of course not but just because there's no proper violence involved doesn't make it consensual or just 'possibly' rape. I think that the OP has made it very clear that she's not enthusiastically consenting so how is there a possibility of it being a misunderstanding?

What?

I’ve sometimes been asleep, sometimes I’ve said no, and not reciprocated but he has carried on.

It is explicitly clear from the first post that - for WHATEVER reason - op is not 'up' for sex right now (reasons don't actually matter, even if they were in the throes of sex she can change her mind) but her dh is forcing himself upon her WITHOUT CONSENT.

NO MEANS NO
SILENCE MEANS NO
ACTUALLY I'VE CHANGED MY MIND NOW MEANS NO

Maybe a conversation could have been had about why she didn't fancy it the first time. But this is a repeated pattern of behaviour now, of rape, op does not owe him anything, especially a conversation about why she doesn't feel like having sex.

"Oh hey dh, the thing is, whilst I originally didn't fancy having sex for x y z reasons, now that you've repeatedly forced yourself upon me without my enthusiastic consent, it's about time we had a chat..."

Op its tough, that realisation of the situation you're in. Take time to regroup and get some support. He's escalating.

He's sexually abusing you op, sex when one person doesn't want to shouldn't ever happen - it's not OK, can you go somewhere for some time without him?

@Greenbike @Keepthosenamesgoing
"A few times recently he has tried to start something, I’ve sometimes been asleep, sometimes I’ve said no, and not reciprocated but he has carried on. I just kind of froze and let it happen"

That is rape and is direct quote from the OP

@BloodyAdultDC

I am sorry I clearly didn't read it properly

I am sorry I wrote what I did

I have asked for my post to be taken down

I am sorry if I implied anything that meant it was not absolutely wrong

Please stop shouting at me. I am very very sorry. I was wrong. I acknowledge that. I am not trying to justify rape in any way shape or form. That is not what I am. I made a mistake and I am deeply deeply sorry.

Yes I apologise again for not reading it carefully enough

@Keepthosenamesgoing
Thank you for acknowledging and retracting.