Verbal aggression in bed

[Danceathon]

I’ve been seeing a man for a couple of months. He’s my first since my divorce, and the first new man I’ve slept with in over 15 years. He seems lovely. There have been no issues at all. He’s kind, gentle, has a good job and seemingly nice friends (I met three of them, once). A stable life, and he’s not once caused me to feel uncomfortable. Except…

When we are in bed (which; to be fair, has only happened three times) he says things that I find slightly off putting. I am inexperienced when it comes to sleeping with different men. He’s only the 4th I’ve slept with, and the two prior to my ex DH were both when I was 19. None of the others did this.

The sex itself is lovely. He never does anything I’m uncomfortable with, and I’m sure that if I ever told him to stop doing something he would immediately. So it’s not that. But as he gets more excited he says things like ‘dirty bitch’, and uses the C-word. This is completely out of character, and then afterwards he is back to normal again.

I know that in that moment you can lose yourself a bit. And I’m glad he is as aroused as he clearly is. But I just wonder if this is typical or whether it’s a bit of a red flag. I don’t want to make him feel self conscious, so haven’t said anything. I’m sure that when he’s not fifteen seconds from the end of sex he’d not say things like that. Maybe it’s worse because I myself am quite quiet even when I’m very excited. Any thoughts?

That would explain one slip up. After which I would have expected him to apologise profusely and ask ops views on dirty talk, but promise not to incorporate it either way unless/until they were both comfortable with it.

But he's done it several times now. No apologies. No conversation.

He knows this isn't OK. Because everyone knows this isn't OK. Not without consent.

So no the ex gf liking it is no excuse.

It's worrying that you're hisitating to tell him. Can you see the disparity? He's quite happy to refer to you in disgusting terms, but you're nervous of telling him you don't want to be referred to that way

Yes this is what I found really strange. How someone would even need to question whether they should raise it with him or not.
Absolutely bonkers. I feel feminism has failed sometimes reading these boards :/ or maybe it never achieved what it thought it did and we haven’t made as much progress as we thought? seriously. Why are so many women that timid?

Even when I was 23 and much less assertive than I am now, a guy I was seeing referred to me as his “bitch”. He actually doubled down on it when I immediately told him not to refer to me like that so I got rid.

Are you usually so passive @Danceathon ?

Eewww. I'd find this really weird. To think it's ok without asking makes me think it's normalised to him. Too much porn? I personally would find this a massive put off.

You can only tell him then see how it goes. It would have my radar on high alert though tbh.

This was a sex in the city episode. Charlotte dumped him

I find it bizarre that so many women would give a man multiple chances to not call them a bitch or cunt. For me this would very much be "get out of me and never say that again" followed by a conversation about why on earth he thought that would be an acceptable thing to call me.
Dirty talk is one thing. This is unsolicited vulgar misogynistic abuse.

“You fucking bitch, you fucking whore!” 😂 She was NOT happy…

In his defence some people refer to things in different ways.. My dh uses cock whereas it's a dick imo. Just tell him - not in bed or during bedtime at all it isn't for you.. . When I met dh he asked me for a bath pic.... I sent him a photo of the taps. He apologised and said he thought everyone sent pics these days! Well I don't and he never asked again. He's new to sleeping with you so be honest and tell him what you like /don't like. If you can't you really shouldn't be having sex with him...

@Beautifulbythebay

When I met dh he asked me for a bath pic.... I sent him a photo of the taps.

Love this!

You shouldn't need to explain how consent works. Or that your not ok with something no one is OK with (without discussion). He's a wrong un unfortunately.
You know what, I think this is spot on. It’s WEIRD that he apparently has just assumed it’s ok. Or, he KNOWS it’s not ok and that’s what gets him going.
So either he’s thick or creepy, both of which are red card worthy.

Older white upper-middle class men are absolutely the worst offenders for this. I think its because they grew up at a time the c-word was never ever used or even referred to in the media, so it's literally the dirtiest, most taboo thing they can think of in the moment.

As everyone else said, you're going to need to tell him you don't like it, and go from there. Anything other than a heartfelt "omg I'm so sorry" and immediate cessation would be cause for me to dump.

Just tell him you don't like it. Many people do. Many people ask for it. You just have to tell him you don't like it. If he likes to talk during sex you could suggest he tries more complimentary, worship type phrases if you'd be open to that.

We've very experienced in BDSM and swinging and such so it's not a shocking thing to me, it's quite normal in our circles. But I personally don't like being verbally degraded so I just inform people beforehand. DP compliments how I look and feel during sex, calls me his queen, its all about worshipping me.

If he's a decent bloke he will accept your sexual preferences and want you to feel good and enjoy sex.

Hmm. Thanks again for everyone’s thoughts. My own haven’t moved on from this morning ie the need to discuss it with him and let him know that I don’t really like it.

I disagree with those who are being hyper-critical though. He refers to my bits as a c-word in the absolute heat of the moment. I see that as completely different to calling me that (in the same way that if I referred to his cock I wouldn’t be calling him a cock). I’m not a ‘dirty bitch’ so will make him aware of that!

I also disagree that it’s a consent issue. I’ve given him no impression at all that he’s doing anything wrong, so it’s reasonable for him to imply consent. Obviously when I tell him I don’t like it then that changes.

i don’t see this as a feminism issue, yet. I’m not some timid wallflower crying into my pillow at being called a horrid name. I just don’t really like it so will tell him so. I just wondered how typical this behaviour was given that he’s the first new man I’ve slept with in a long time, and I’m generally inexperienced when it comes to different men.

It’s early days in our relationship. There might be things I’m doing in bed that he wants me to stop doing. He hasn’t said. So we’ll discuss it, and let’s see.

I do think it's wrong to use potentially degrading dirty talk without checking that a woman actually likes it first.
I have certain things that I love being said but if a man used them without checking first I would think he was an arsehole who has likely upset or degraded other women in the past because he didn't check, they should know that not all women like those terms.

I am clear about my likes and dislikes first but many don't talk about it first and a man should never just assume.

I also disagree that it’s a consent issue. I’ve given him no impression at all that he’s doing anything wrong, so it’s reasonable for him to imply consent. Obviously when I tell him I don’t like it then that changes.

I disagree. Men should have a bit of sense. Not all women like dirty talk and even out of those who do many don't like the degrading talk like 'dirty bitch'. If they say it in the moment they can make a woman feel very uncomfortable or upset so they should never just assume.

The things is op, you didn't SAY it was ok.
And according to societal norms and boundaries, it isn't. Its the sort of thing you get permission for first.

For example, if a random guy slapped my arse and went 'alright darling, looking sexy' as he passed my by, I might just take it as a compliment. But most people would take it as sexual assault.

Just becauae you are OK with the inappropriate act, doesn't make it OK.

Amd someone who ignores reasonable socal boundaries as if they don't exist, let alone, disregards your chance to give an opinion on your own boundaries, is very.bad.news.
Very bad news indeed.

I don’t think i agree with this. There are things that are outside of the norm except for during sex, and I’d place it in that category.

I see his actions as more akin to licking my ear than, say, putting his hands on my throat.

I'd put them closer to the later.

Calling you horrible names is a reminder of prior abuse many women have experienced, same as putting a hand on her throat without permission.

Even if there wasn't a chance of past abuse being relevant, there's no excuse for it without permission first.

Licking someone's ear is possibly going to earn you a telling off. Calling someone vile, potentially triggering names (without permission)...that's first ticket to dumpsville territory.

The 'heat of the moment' isn't an excuse. And too many abusers like claim they can't control themselves. It's bullshit. And if you excuse bullshit early on, it's a slippery slope.

I agree with the previous poster, and to be honest I think you do as well deep down, you called it aggressive in your post title. I'd certainly say it's closer to throat grabbing than ear licking.

There's not necessarily anything wrong with some aggression during sex, but it's something that should be discussed beforehand.

I'm not saying you should instantly dump him over it, it may have just been the norm in previous relationships for him and he's being thoughtless. It is however a sign that his partner's boundaries aren't foremost in his mind. And they should be.

Have that talk with him, and make it clear that it's made you question him a bit. He needs to start thinking about his actions, especially in the heat of the moment. And I'd be on the lookout for a while about any further pushing of boundaries.

It's a bit of dirty talk, I wouldn't dump him over that if he's otherwise nice. He might even think you like it if his other partners have before! But as PPs have said, definitely address it outside the bedroom. Say you love the sex but don't like the dirty talk as it makes you feel degraded, even if it is just role play / getting excited to him. If he's nice he'll totally understand and stop.

He’s showing you exactly how he views women. Believe him and leave now.

That. I know a woman whose husband likes to call her a whore. He also likes her to call him Daddy, which I find sickening

Hilarious, love this!

Incidentally I don’t mind calling my cunt a cunt, not in the slightest (and I definitely prefer it to “bits”) but I would never expect any man to know that or to use that word unless I said it was ok.
It’s a transgression, and it might be about testing the boundaries, to see how much more you will accept. Red flag 🚩

I think this is a very sensible approach OP. No need to catastrophise just yet, give him a heads up that you don’t like it, and go from there. Good luck, hope it works out for you.

I'd dump him