Men of today.

[Lustnotlove]

What's happened too men these days? They are not the same as they was 15-20 years ago, no commitment, no loyalty, no respect, no ambition, no teamwork? I think I've given up with the L word 🤣🤷🏼‍♀️ maybe it's me but I feel there's no decent guys out there anymore 🤷🏼‍♀️ it's actually sad as when your young you have all these dreams don't you?

I guess I never did the Tinder thing so have not experienced the swipe left or right aspect of OLD. That said I live in London so on match.com there would be literally hundreds of 'hits' of single women living within a 2 mile radius of me. There was still an element of scrolling through page after page of profiles and 'liking' some of them or conjuring up emails to send. It was still a numbers of game though, and if you were proactive it was easily feasible to have multiple dates in one week.

Yeah they're having a bit of fun before deciding their next move. Whether to stay single or look for love, but they wont find that with a kid in her 20s.

It's probably because the younger women are less likely to pressure them for a commitment and more naive, gullible and flexible.
It's also a classic 2 fingers up to the ex that hey look at what kind of women I could pull after you... it's a bragging status thing to show off a come back after divorce or separation with a 'younger model'

If I look back on my (woeful) love life, I have encountered more of the truly terrible men IRL than online. Online you have your guard up. Mutual friends, when asked for a reference, can often err on the side of generosity towards their friend 😬.

Regarding hard-core porn, does it depict women uncomplainingly doing the bulk of the domestic work and childbearing? Or supportive listening for hours while men bang on and on about their issues, talking over you when you try to shift the conversation back to yourself now and then? Or expecting you to listen to and applaud their musical efforts?! Because those are the kind of issues I encounter in the "men of today".

I wouldn't even mind a bit of casual sex- as long as they were actually good at it 🙄

I am sorry you’re having such a hard time dating OP, it really does sound pretty grim.
I met my DH at uni and for months I thought I was flirting brilliantly, but I then realised he was really super shy and so instead of waiting, I asked him on a date. He is still the loveliest man, and is a great DH, but he says he’d still be single now had I not asked him on a date, as he was too scared to ask me (or anyone) out! I think quieter men can sometimes get overlooked, and OLD is probably over-representing the more cocksure men iyswim? Could you join some hobbies or sports to meet people in a different atmosphere?
I also think as pp have said, a lot of good men are already in relationships by their 30s. There are still LOTS of lovely guys out there though, and I hope you find one of them!

Calling a women in her twenties '"a kid" is patronising and misogynistic.

Surely the 'two fingers to the ex' is a classic post separation approach that both men and women deploy. I coach at my local rowing club, we are not a high performance or elite club so take on all sorts of people into our learn to row courses. On every course there are always a few post divorced 40 something folk throwing themselves into a new sport, getting super fit, buying new wardrobes, dating better versions of their ex's and relishing the the day they bump into them down the High Street when they look all fabulous.

I disagree. I have a wonderful partner, he respects me, is loyal, pulls more than his weight around the house, makes me laugh every day, is kind, empathetic and compassionate (and not porn sick). He also doesn’t ‘Not All Men’ me when I’m angry over male behaviour in society. I have him exactly because I don’t tolerate mens bullshit and wouldn’t settle for less.

@TheCadoganArms yes of course, women usually do this by getting thinner and fitter, maybe new hair and clothes but not dating 20 year olds normally. I commented on men specifically because that was where the last comments were going but yeah of course both sexes want a 'revenge' usually, a post break up glow up for the women and a new trophy gf for the men usually.

@MyPearlAnt

Men might want to date those 20 something women but unless they are something special themselves they will probably just get laughed at. I think your description of a 'post break up glow' is a good one. The afore mentioned rowing course attendees are amusing as they join up at the start all out of shape and soft while coughing their lungs up when exercising and within the year they look like they are hewn from granite and quite of these 40 something divorcees end up dating each other!

@TheCadoganArms to witness the hungry caterpillar transformation process must be highly entertaining.. still, better they throw themselves into sports than other vices! 😁

Not all. Some are great, some not. Like most generations??

It is quite satisfying watching people transform themselves from fairly low bases. A few years ago we had one woman who was very large, could not fit in a boat large, so we devised a land training (ergs and weights) as well as a diet plan and she got on it. Rowing has a pretty high attrition rate but she proved everyone wrong and stuck with the programme and the weight fell off. She is quite literally less then half the person she used to be three years down the line and now competes in local regattas and the like. She is also the reason why I get prickly on here when people spout bollocks like 'exercise does not help you lose weight'.

I think you only have to look at OLD, where statistically a lot of dating happens these days, to see where its going wrong. Everyone gets to see everyone else so there's more choice and people get to be far more picky. This in turn means interest is restricted to less men due to women being selective.

These men are then considered as all men. But this small group of men have no reason to act as anything other than the way OP describes. Other men that let's say on the apps are invisible get the same label.

Hence 'what happened to men' is actually why does this small group of men act a certain way.

This isn't to say women shouldn't be picky but merely observing a lot of dating these days is done in a way which benefits next to no one.

The odd thing is this often gets described as 'incel'type talk but it's what all the evidence points to and supports..

Well done you. You sound like a delight.

In the real world, non-celebrity, non-billionaire middle-aged men are not dating 20 year-olds.

This gets bandied around on MN as if the TikTok generation are throwing themselves at fat Keith whose wife left him and he’s living in a bedsit at 50. They’re not. I mean, I’m in my 30s and I wouldn’t go near a middle-aged divorcee, so why would a 20 year-old?

Utterly fanciful nonsense on here sometimes.

@Crushed23 haha you mean Leonardo Dicaprio and Wayne Lineker aren't typical of the men you find on OLD here!?

I agree with this. I tried OLD in my late 20s for three years, 2002-2005. Met dozens of men, enjoyed it but nothing progressed more than one date, maybe two.

Met my ex at work aged 30. 16 years later found myself single. Did about a year of OLD - much harder to get dates, far less choice, far less fun.

Met my partner 2.5 years ago out dancing. I would never have chosen him on OLD - photographs badly, isn't what I thought I was looking for (he's not left wing, not intellectual). But I was drawn to his dancing, his smile and his air of fun.

I will never try OLD again.

They know if they go for women without kids in their 30s, they'll be wanting kids pretty soon.

There are very few women who don't want them.

They want time and a relaxed carefree timetable (the men).

As a woman who was once in her 20s, I strongly disagree.

I was a kid.

I listened to 20 somethings (not that I had any choice but to listen to them) on the train for years and they sound exactly between kids and adults. They don't sound like actual adults until nearing 30, even then ....

Anyway, it's relative - Richard Gear's character called Olivier Martinez's character "a kid" in "Unfaithful" because compared to middle aged them (he and Diane Lane), he did seem like a kid. And relative to late 30s and 40s something people, 20 somethings are like kids. There are exceptions (every MNer who married a man 20 yrs older will be along to preach about how incredibly mature and together there were at 21, I have my doubts about that but whatever) but you really you can't put an old head on young shoulders and it matters.

Yes.
I'm 45, married for 20 years and you are absolutely right.
Happy I won't need to bother anymore!

@Crushed23 Yeah but we're not talking about Fat Keith in a bedsit that nobody wants anyway, we're talking about a specific kind of guy that op and others might find eligible on paper but he's instead opting to date 20 year olds. I don't know if you had a chance to read the entire thread but it was in response to other comments. The conversation trickled from the point of 'yeah but those guys that were snapped up young will end up back on the market divorced in their 40s' comment to which I and others have said, and yes they will be back dating just for fun more than likely, and women in their 20s will have them. It's kind of an obvious that there is an assumption of associated reasonable wealth/career at 40 something. I didn't think it needed spelling out. And yes of course we generalize, generalizations come from proven persistent track records. MN is not the problem that this is happening, it just is. The same 40 something divorce who a 30 year old would happily date ie solvent and attractive enough he will go to 20 year olds because they won't nag him to commit. Depressingly true, I'm sorry to say.

OK.
I shall forever refer to women in their 20s as girls.

For all you know, they are looking at the women of today and saying something similar to you

“no commitment, no loyalty, no respect, no ambition, no teamwork”

🤷🏻

Men love to pop up on these threads