Men of today.

[Lustnotlove]

What's happened too men these days? They are not the same as they was 15-20 years ago, no commitment, no loyalty, no respect, no ambition, no teamwork? I think I've given up with the L word 🤣🤷🏼‍♀️ maybe it's me but I feel there's no decent guys out there anymore 🤷🏼‍♀️ it's actually sad as when your young you have all these dreams don't you?

@DotDashDot24 and there are men out there who have slept with loads of prostitutes that are married with kids now. Many women seem to be turned off by a man who has paid for sex in the past but these men still end up marrying and getting the happy ending as well (like those women you mentioned who slept around)

I just dont go for girls who have slept around and lots of men feel the same way, just like lots of women prefer men with sexual experience and who aint virgins.

Go for what ever you want and I managed to find myself the perfect GF for me so I dont care how many women a man is sleeping with, in my opinion im the one winning out here because my GF is way more attractive than all those other women.

I don't think men have changed that much, but the ones using OLD and excessive porn (maybe or maybe not linked) are very different.

But the two women I know who've had the most success with OLD aren't what you would call traditionally sexy. They were both in their 40s when they started and had good jobs and had recently come out of a long term marriage and relationship.

They met nice guys pretty quickly and were therefore only OLD for a few months each.

When you say women are clueless about what 'men' find attractive you're talking about yourself or your 'friends' or things you've read on the internet.

I don't think you understand that women don't want men like that or who hold those opinions 😂

You haven't raised any children yourself, for all you know they could rebel against your views and 'sleep around' or do only fans.

Can you not see the difference in consensual sex and someone paying for sex? 😂

Nail on the head 😂😂

How embarrassing to spew his incel fantasies all over mumsnet.
What an absolute waste of a life spent plotting revenge on women for having sex with other men, inventing imaginary women that he will have kids with and then dump. Unbelievably sad and pathetic.

and so it has ever been thus .....

The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are tyrants, not servants of the households. They no longer rise when their elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannise over their teachers.

Socrates, 470 - 399 BC

Good god, there's some real nonsense on this thread 🤣 An inflated sense of self worth and a sense of entitlement has been a prominent feature of the male since forever, including the two thousand years or so when the above 'gatekeeper' statements were true.

In the UK in 2023, engagement with online dating platforms was split 61% male and 39% female. So, yes, this should mean men trying harder! They might feel like they're in a sweet shop but, in fact, there are three of them to every two women. If every user matched, a third of the men would still be single.

The main reason is the one PPs have called smug: nice men who want to get happily married and have children, did get married and have children. They're no longer available.

I realised this after Divorce #1, which was well over 20 years ago. Having spent my twenties with the wrong choice of partner, I found the available dating pool very low quality compared to what it had been ten years earlier. In fact, Husband #2 was twelve years younger than me and actively looking to marry.

There are still nice, single guys out there but they're surrounded by dickheads. Or try dating younger, maybe?

@GingerDude98

Are all these sluts in the room with you right now?

I think you are stretching a point there
BUT , the men who have a bit of something about them now have easier access to sex then ever before, so why bother with the effort and trouble of dating any more

In the UK in 2023, engagement with online dating platforms was split 61% male and 39% female. So, yes, this should mean men trying harder! They might feel like they're in a sweet shop but, in fact, there are three of them to every two women. If every user matched, a third of the men would still be single.

this has always been the case, there has ( almost) always been more single men than women , currently 100 million more men than women in Asia

men used to killed by war and industrial accidents etc, that just never happens now

after WW1, there was a surplus of 1.7 M women in the UK , due to an entire generation of men not returning from the trenches

this reverses with age , by 40 it’s about equal, by 60 there is a surplus of women

With dating the number of available “good “ men is quite low really especially after 40/50 most are married or divorced and not interested in a relationship anymore or dead

any single female over about 40 is going to have to work hard to get a relationship and the “good” single men now have their pick of partners as they don’t care about who they date in terms of dating up / down

currently 100 million more men than women in Asia

Can't this be partly put down to the one child policy in china that meant many girls were aborted or abandoned to die?

Not just China but also India where there is a rather disturbing trend of aborting perfectly healthy babies because they are not male.

Yes that too sadly. Therefore I don't think looking at the stats of single men v women in Asia and comparing it to the UK is at all useful. We also, in the UK, don't have the same strong cultural attitude towards marriage that there is in Asian countries.

I do find the 'all the good ones are snapped up early' comments quite funny, for the utter lack of self-awareness you must have to believe that. Because it goes both ways. If you genuinely believe that, maybe it should give you pause for thought that you're not all that great, either. Else you'd have been 'snapped up early' too...

And before you object with reasons why you haven't, maybe consider that could be the same for guys too.

Of course there are plenty of decent men out there - but you're unlikely to find them on an app. I think an increasing number of men realise how futile apps are, considering there's generally far more male users on apps than females, how much harder it is to get matches as a guy compared to when you're a woman etc, etc.

The main problem with apps is that it's just so superficial and based primarily on appearance. You're unlikely to find a long-lasting relationship when that's the case. I don't know what the solution is, if someone can create a dating app that is significantly more about personality and compatibility than appearance, but it'd probably still be less popular than something like Tinder even if there was such a thing.

In the UK ( and Western Europe in general), the rate is about 105 / 106 males born to every 100 females
so there will always be a few more men than women, but men used to die / get killed in massive numbers ( thankfully not any more)

Unless, of course, you look at Ukraine where again you have the potential of a generation of young men ( not women) being killed or injured to such a degree that may never have a relationship ( as happened in this country)

Yes, in some parts of the world, boys are seen as a preference as they get sent off to work to support the family in a way that girls are not

While I believe everyone is responsible for their own behaviour, I also believe everyone has a personal responsibility towards their own wellbeing. As women we need to stop playing victims, and act like everything bad happens TO us by men completely uninfluenced by our own choices. As long as women's self-esteem, behaviour, bars, expectations and demands are low, men will continue to have no incentive to change. Why would they? Women give them what they want (sex, children, maid services, money) with minimal effort on their part. If someone offered you a high paying job with every perk you could dream of, and which required of you to do nothing in return...would you not take the job? That's the position women have put men in, whether women like to admit it or not. Women have made life too easy for men, and men are enjoying the easy ride. Quite literally, actually.

In an ideal world, yes, everyone's morals, values and behaviour wouldn't be determined by what they can get away with, and by how much people allow them to do. But we don't live in an ideal world, we live in a world where men WILL treat you like crap if you let them. So...don't let them.

Yeah introspection isn't a big thing on MN.

When I was young, I had a mega drive. The games were expensive. When I bought one, it was a big investment for me so I played it to the end, even if I didn’t like it that much. I took time to learn the controls. If I really liked it, I’d play it over and over.

Now, I have Xbox game pass. I play a game for ten minutes and if I don’t like it, I uninstall it. I’m massively more fickle because there’s no investment and it’s so easy to get a new game.

OLD is the game pass of relationships. Worse, it means that when people do hook up, it’s almost always outside of their own social group, so there’s no peer pressure to behave acceptably. It’s totally allowed people to dehumanise the very people they’re trying to get close to.

You can see how men behave sexually without the social constraints women place on them when you look at the gay dating scene (if you haven’t had a chance to compare Tinder and Grindr, it’s both eye opening and eye watering!) That’s definitely the direction things have headed.

And at the same time, the average gen z is having less sex than gen x did by quite a margin, so it’s not even working! But don’t worry - porn can fill that void (yuk, pun not intended but I’m leaving it there now).

@Nellodee really good analogy, I was talking to somebody last night who said something similar, she also said that some of the men she had dated seemed to be constantly revisiting the app as if the women they were dating were a new car they had bought, they kept looking to check they couldn’t get a better deal. It was like FOMO was in operation and they never wanted to invest in the relationship or pursue a relationship requiring commitment just in case they saw someone ‘better’ come along.
I know if I’ve bought a high ticket item that I’ve researched and spent a lot of time choosing, that I have to make myself stop looking in case I see something better after I’ve committed to the purchase. It makes sense with inanimate objects but these are people, for goodness’ sake! She said it was like kids in a sweet shop for some of them and has given up on OLD.

Yes, so did I. It’s a lovely comment from a wife who found a great guy. So did I - and yes, I know I’m lucky. We met at school - it’s probably hard for either of us to pretend to be something we’re not when we’ve seen each other told off by the teacher/parents/done stupid stuff as teens which we both know about.