Men of today.

[Lustnotlove]

What's happened too men these days? They are not the same as they was 15-20 years ago, no commitment, no loyalty, no respect, no ambition, no teamwork? I think I've given up with the L word 🤣🤷🏼‍♀️ maybe it's me but I feel there's no decent guys out there anymore 🤷🏼‍♀️ it's actually sad as when your young you have all these dreams don't you?

Got to love an MN forum sweeping generalisation discussion 😂

So who are these women sleeping with these loser non charming, non witty or interesting men who don't make any effort? I assume they have a say in the matter or do they just feel obliged to have crap sex with crap men at the first time of asking?

Because that's all that's on offer? Because they are hopeful that one of them will be a decent one?

Lots of women have huge self esteem issues. That probably unsurprisingly have their origins in absent or emotionally absent fathers, and you can see how the cycle goes on and on.

NOT talking about couples where divorce has occurred because I don’t think that automatically results in an ‘absent’ father.

I used to think my Dad was amazing simply for staying married to my mum until I realised he is actually completely unloving and borderline abusive. I’ve consistently chosen emotionally unavailable and / or abusive men as a result.

having to do a lot of healing and have a complete reset.

I don't know a lot of people in their 20s so I can't definitely say if men today are better/worse. What I CAN say is that when I was in my 20s, I often felt that many of the men I knew were wankers. Even ones who were my friends were often selfish and entitled and it was hard to find a man I wanted to date, and who wanted to date me.

But we all grew up and things got better. I imagine it's not entirely different today.

I think a lot of women walk straight past good men when they are in their 20s and into the arms of good-looking, exciting dickheads.

10 years later the ordinary, boring men are busy being good husbands and fathers. The women who passed by them are moaning that there are no good men around.

The qualities that make a man an attractive prospect as a boyfriend ( spontaneous, out- going) don't always make for a good husband and father. So much of being a good parent revoles around boring, tedious routine.

Well, 15-20 years ago was 2004-2009. Men (as a group) haven't changed and turned into some completely different animal in the short space of time since then.

People get older though, and a 40 year old man is very different to a 20 year old man. Just as a 40 year old woman is very different to a 20 year old woman. And, if you are single in your 40s (man or woman), your dating pool is greatly changed from what it was in your 20s, because it doesn't include all the people who have got into permanent relationships since then.

I think this is what you are seeing, not that men in general have somehow transformed into something they weren't. That's not to say you can't meet someone fantastic when you're in your 40s. It's just harder, that's all.

This, exactly.

Men are suddenly being expected to do a LOT MORE, including things that are emotionally hard to navigate rather than physically - the good men ask for help, or research, or listen and learn, but there are a lot of men who seem personally affronted that they are being expected to contribute to a life beyond money and mowing the grass. They have had it in their head that women have it easy 'only' working part time or being a SAHM, only for them to discover that doing everything else requires a varied set of skills that they don't have. They are digging their heels in. They don't like that women don't need them. They don't like being challenged on doing whatever the hell they wanted. They don't like that they are being expected to do all the things women have always been expected to do as standard - look good, being emotionally supportive, stay faithful - they are affronted that women are no longer grateful for the bare minimum, and instead of taking a good hard look at themselves and what they offer and wanting to be better, they just don't bother.

Here's the key....years ago if a man wanted sex he had to be in a relationship to get it regularly. Nowadays they can get sex whenever they want it so they don't have to bother to display any kind of commitment.

So, excepting the men to whom you're referring who are gay, and thus get whatever they're after from other blokes, you're telling us that women of today are equally as uninterested in any kind of commitment and are just looking for casual hook-ups?

"I agree. I think the best ones are snapped up."

Works both ways tbf, the absolute state of women who are in the dating scene these days.

All the decent ones are coupled up

I disagree with this. For me a ‘traditionally’ good looking guy is an immediate red flag for this very reason.

unfortunately bad character traits aren’t the preserve of the ‘players’.

How is it smug? The world has gone mad

Or whisper it, maybe there are quite a few women out there dating who aren't a big a catch as they think they are? Often the narrative on here is that the women OLD are by default thoughtful, intelligent, witty and attractive and are fed up of wading through an ocean of crap, lazy and abusive men because all 'the good ones' have been snapped up! Anecdotally, I know quite a few single men, some definitely fall into the afore mentioned 'crap' category with others whom can be definitely be described as decent and eligible. The latter group are complaining just as much as those on here as to where the good women are as their OLD experiences are filled with just as many time wasters and fruitcakes.

Online dating has ruined dating for women.

The men see it as being in a candy shop with too much choice. If you do t put out straight away they have plenty of others to choose from.

@PinkLemonade555

Then it isn't true for you.

Many women are attracted to good-looking men. These men find sex to be easily getable and girlfriends easily replaceable. The more easily you get something, the less you value it.

More women than men want long term commitment...there is a simple imbalance in terms of numbers. Some women will want casual sex...some will actually be doing it in the hope that they'll eventually find a man who is willing to settle down.

All the men I know are lovely, some of the women I know are awful. That’s my experience anyway.

Bonkers, isn't it? Somebody expresses happiness with having found somebody decent who wants to commit to her, just as she does to him, and she's 'smug'. She's describing what a standard married man should be - and, in a great many cases, is!

All this in the context of an OP denouncing ALL men as being useless - but even if there's just one man in the world who isn't useless, the woman who is married to him is apparently smug?!

Well, yes. Clearly the dating apps and how they are used show that there are indeed many women who are equally uninterested in commitment and just looking for casual hook-ups as the men they are engaging with.

The issue is that the biological clock starts ticking for some of these women in their 30s and they start looking for the "good men" and can't find them... For others they come out of a divorce in later life and expect the dating pool to be full of good men wanting to settle down when that isn't the case. Dating apps rarely work for these women.

Dating these days seems so brutally Darwinian that I can understand why so many people struggle with it.

I don't think men have become weaker per se, they've historically always had a woman to do everything for them and hold the fort/deal with life admin/everything. Heterosexual men I mean.
Nowadays women are more like have our own money/homes/cars, we choosing not to support an incompetent "extra child", because why on earth would we..

I might be way out of turn here but I actually think get rid of the apps, get out there and meet someone in person.

Apps have ruined dating in my eyes and I'm in my 30s. I've been with someone a long, long time but I have many friends on apps. Seen it all on here and other places. It's about looks because it's become about looks.

I know there will be someone who says I can't get out to meet blah blah. There are places to go to get out and meet people. Groups, gyms, meets up, night out.

Like we used to do.

I've often said if I saw my other half on an app, I'd probably swipe left is it lol? He takes a shit photo. Even worse, on the very rare attempt he tries to do a selfie, he looks serious. 😁

But IRL, he has kind, warm brown eyes. Broad shoulders. Good sense of humour and intelligent. Lovely voice. Generous. Cooks and cleans. Loves animals. Love the way he walks and has a nice butt 🤣🤣🤣 I wouldn't have seen any of these things because you can't convey these online. He is awful at messaging so I would have probably let it go.

You can't tell a chemistry through an app. I know that's why people meet to see if they do. But I reckon many swipe past people who would be amazing for them, if they met them in person in the first place.

I know there is always an exception, whether it's to availability to meet, people who have met wonderful people online Etc. But this is just my opinion only, it's not fact.

@RomanRoysSearchHistory I think they have become weaker. Growing up, I saw men have much more resilience and were much more capable. They would work, could do a lot of home maintenance themselves including basic plumbing, themselves, and able to step up if need be.
They were expected to prove that they could provide for a family.
I'm not saying that was ideal, because I don't believe it was, but they seemed to have a greater strength of character and resilience.

But by saying that, you're kind of implying that women are easily led, desperate, have low standards, don't really know what they want...

OLD has been around long enough now that surely women must know that the men who are desperate for sex straightaway are probably not the ones who are looking for long-term commitment? There's a reason why coffee retailers make you buy 9 coffees first and then your 10th is free, rather than giving you the 1st one free and just hoping/trusting that you'll be back to buy 9 more! Why not leave the obvious hook-up-seeking men for the women who are similarly-intentioned and be a bit more discerning and take your time to find one on the same page as you?

Plus, as has already been said on here, most of the slightly older men - and women - who are interested in long-term commitment will already have found it, still have it and thus never darken the doors of OLD.

There will be a reason why men and women in their late 30s and older are on OLD. It may be a perfectly good reason, such as young widows/widowers, those who have been subsequently betrayed and left in the lurch by liars, abusers, gaslighters and other horrors, those who have never found the right person for them and have been patient and unwilling to compromise with Mr/Miss Right-Now, and dozens more very worthy reasons - BUT a large proportion of them will also be flawed/selfish/unpleasant people who simply cannot hold down relationships and/or do not want commitment.

Whilst there are plenty of people on OLD who will put out straightaway and provide what the casual hook-up-seekers are wanting, the latter will continue to populate them in large numbers.

Not at all. My point is that the good ones tend to be married and still married and don't fuck about.

Love the way he walks and has a nice butt

Great to hear that - it's very important to find somebody who cares about the environment and doesn't just wantonly waste valuable rainwater