Billy no mates at the book group WWYD?

[ColdGirlWinter]

Sorry after reviewing just realised how long this is!

I'm in a book group which I've been in for about six years. It's held in a pub in a village not far from where I live but about 10 minutes drive, just under three miles away and we meet monthly. All women, all who live in this village and who all know each other. Nobody has ever been rude to me, and some of them are really nice. There was a 'queen bee' character but she wasn't unkind, that status was more to do with the fact I think she set it up, but she's moved away. Another has just moved away too, and there's always been a whipround when they've moved. One of them was 60 recently and we did that for her too.

One woman in particular I really like a lot. But they are all very tight knit and do lots together, in couples, all know one another's families well etc. That's fine, I don't want to join in all of that though I have been to a couple of quizzes in the past which was very good. Sometimes however I am not listened to and can't get a word in (not always when talking about the book, when it is general chat) and I feel as if I don't belong. The pub is the only one in the village and they all frequent it a lot.

Tonight was book group, and I was the person who selected the book. There's a group WhatsApp and it's quite active. A couple of the members were doing something else tonight and messaged to say they wouldn't be there, one saying she was really enjoying the book. Another (one of them who's moved away) messaged to say the same, gave her review and said how good it was. Another messaged to say she wouldn't be able to come as she was just leaving work. Nobody else (there would be another 4 besides me) messaged so I assumed they were coming and it was going ahead. So I turned up half an hour early so I could eat there first as I had just finished work too. Nobody else came. I messaged the group to say I was by myself, one (who'd already said she wasn't coming) sent an emoji 😥and asked if "someone can book for next month" but nobody else bothered.

Last month I couldn't get a word in edgewise and left thinking that if it didn't improve, I wouldn't come again. When we had a Christmas meal, I was the last to arrive (no berating for being late, I wasn't) and sat at the end of the table and wasn't really included in conversation.

I suggested the book so there would be something I could talk about a lot this time, and nobody came! I don't think it's personal in that they don't like me, more that they are so cliquey, but they're not nasty. I don't think I want to continue with this. I wish I hadn't wasted an hour and a half altogether travelling there, eating, then waiting around and going home irritated.

WWYD?

Honestly, what are you getting out of the group? I would just leave them to it.

These kinds of threads make me so cross, not because of you OP.

There's a myth that women have much better social skills than men. Increasingly I find that's not the case. I meet more and more women who EITHER have never left 'the village' OR they have moved for all sorts of reasons (uni / work / moving to be with a partner) and who are essentially left out in the cold.

Simultaneously there's an absolute epidemic of loneliness in our society. Historically it was with the elderly; increasingly it's all age groups especially the 18-24 year olds. People wring their hands and say 'OH no! But why? They're in their bedrooms all the time talking to strangers online, why is that?'

This thread sums up the reason why. British people are really quite shit at making friends because we don't prioritise it. We have the 'have friends' and the 'have nots'. The 'haves' are sometimes just smug / lacking in imagination and empathy / have welcomed a disordered person into their group and been burned by the experience. The 'have nots' are perceived as outsiders for whatever reason but they're often perfectly lovely people who have simply moved areas and found the established clans really careless at best and unwelcoming or hostile at worst.

I understand why people are telling you to keep your dignity OP but honestly I wish people would call this very female behaviour out more, in the same way that we want men to call out their mates making off-colour jokes. These behaviours are harmful to all of us. People deserve the chance to build relationships of all kinds with other humans. It's what makes a happy, functioning society, rather than a society riddled with isolation and poor mental health.

And yes this topic is close to my heart because I'm one of the people who has moved countries and areas for work at various points in my life but at least abroad there's often some attempt at an expat community and often other cultures are more welcoming and inclusive. I find the British mentality of 'pull up the drawbridge' depressing and counterproductive.

She's lovely!

My name is from the (possibly apocryphal) story about someone who was asked their name in a Starbucks so they could write it on the cup. He said 'Marc – with a c' and when the cup came it said 'Cark'.

@oakleaffy did sage get a good home? I hope so.

OP, I live in a cliquey village so know what it’s like.

I suspect people that behave like this would just double down with the denial if someone challenged them. I'm not convinced anyone would actually self identify as a cliquey person. The more misanthropic types seem more self aware at least.

I'd just stop messaging on the group and leave it a while and see how you feel/ if anyone reaches out. Seems annoying

Just leave the group. Don't announce anything, you'd just give them something to talk about.

You tried, but you're not getting anything out of it. Move on, it's not your fault, but you'd been naive to persevere with these people.

I’m really sorry, OP - I’d have felt very upset. I hope you enjoy the book/film group instead - I’d give the other a miss!

I have lived near an insular village for 11 years. I’m friends with a couple who moved here from London, but that’s about it. The Women’s Guild is very cliquey. Whilst my husband is from around here( well kind of…he was born about 15 miles away), I am foreign. I’ve grown to accept that I will not be accepted here, and found friends elsewhere. OP, I’d consider you do the same. Your message was fine, and you have been v. patient, but don’t chase after people, esp. people who treated you so rudely. Let’s hope the film and book club is more fun for you.

I don't want to give anyone any satisfaction or opportunity to moan.

And I suspect had you not have bothered booking the table for the next group meeting that's exactly what those that didn't have the decency to let you know they weren't attending would have done.
Be no mention by them of their behaviour, just picking at you to keep the conversation away from their own rude behaviour.

This is sad, I'm sorry. I used to find myself in these sorts of situations quite a bit, but in the last few years I've been lucky enough to meet a couple of really nice women who I like, and who like me, and we all have a bookclub. There are some other women in the bookclub who are on the Whatsapp group but hardly ever send or respond to messages. But since I've met these three nice women, I've realised that I don't have to accept disrespect or dismissiveness from people, that I deserve more in terms of kindness and interest and people appreciating me as I appreciate them. So I'm focusing on the positive people who give me fun and happiness and bring out the best in me, and not feeling in any way beholden to others who do not.

If I were you I'd archive the group on Whatsapp, as opposed to leaving it. I've archived a few chats (and annoying people), so I never see the messages and can forget about them, but it also doesn't look like I've flounced. People probably just assume I'm really busy and that I mute my Whatsapp groups to avoid distractions, time-wasting etc.

If I'd been one of the ladies in your group, I would have noticed you were likely feeling left out, and reached out to you. And it sounds like maybe you would do the same if you were in that position? But none of them has done so. Who needs enemies when you have friends like that?

I hope you can find ways to network with other child-free people and find better friends. I'm moving to the UK from South Africa next year so will have to start all over again, and I'm going to research madly into all the options for meeting like-minded people. It's lonely when one doesn't feel one belongs, and I've experienced that a lot in my life, but now I know it's possible to meet nicer people.

Maybe you could reach out directly to the one woman you really like, and see if she wants to do a walk or theatre/ballet/book launch or something like that. If not then at least you can say you tried.

It sounds as if they might as well say this is a book club for their village's residents only. They are obviously not open or welcoming, and I'm amazed you've been so tolerant for so long. The cinema club sounds way better.

I used to belong to a book club a bit like this, I just stopped going. One woman ALWAYS read the book until it was my choice, then she was too busy. I don’t want to hangout with woman who act like that, really not my vibe!

I would be tempted to send a slightly less polite response;

"Last night's meeting was quieter than expected (i.e. no one else turned up) however I had a lovely chat with myself about the book - an excellent choice if I may say so!

I have booked the room for the next meeting on the off-chance anyone is planning to attend. If not, one of you might perhaps cancel."

I wouldn't say anything about whether or not I planned to continue to attend in future.

I am one for burning my bridges in these situations. I would probably have added something like:

'I won't be coming back to the group after my holiday and think it is fair that I say why. Whilst no one has been rude to me at any time, I have not felt considered, listened to or welcomed by the group and always feel treated as an outsider. After 6 years I would have hoped that might have changed but it never has. You are probably unaware of that but the group is really quite cliquey and insular- which you might want to consider if anyone else joins who is not from the village.'

@Wishimaywishimight I wish I had seen your post before I sent the message. This was swiftly followed by one of last night's no-shows announcing she is leaving the book group and the WhatsApp.

I wouldn't go anymore, these women would make me feel lonelier than if I didn't even bother.

Do you have any point of contact in the group or maybe reach out the the Queen Bee and say you thought it was really rotton and can’t understand why people had been rude?
In all honesty though it sounds like they don’t want you in the group and want you to get the hint so I’d take it and find something else to do. If you’re not in the village and don’t have the children or grandchildren they have then they may just not have that much in common with you?!
I’d not go back.
I’d possibly also phone the pub and cancel the table booking next month and plead all ignorance when they turn up and don’t have a reservation. Hahahaha

You're right, it's the end of the road for me now. I've contacted the new book club and will be going to that after my holiday. I'll just have to read the book on holiday! It's this one.

Yes they sound cliquey. I wouldn't have booked the table or sent them a message. Hope the book and film club members are more friendly.

I think your message OP was pitch perfect - probably the most articulate and nuanced WhatsApp I have ever read on here! The inference is clear, but no one can accuse you of being arsy, nor passive aggressive.

Interesting fallout from one of the no-shows. I expect your message made her feel bad, and she's trying to make herself feel better by kidding herself that since she had mentally left the group, she wasn't committed to come that night anyway, so she wasn't one of the ones who let you down....

@ColdGirlWinter your OP made uncanny reading because I had almost exactly the same experience (about fifteen years ago now).

Though in my case one woman showed up, and managed to make it worse by saying things like, "I'm sure you chose a great book!" (she hadn't read it) and, "I'm sure they all really wanted to come!" in a ridiculously chirpy and unconvincing tone.

Well, that is good then that you were polite in your message. You have done nothing to feel bad about. If she has chosen to leave the group, then she does feel guilty and I would take that as a win, from your point of view. Also backs up that they are a bitchy lot really and you will be better off without them!!

I wouldn't leave the group right now. I would just fade out of the group and see how long it takes them to notice you're not coming back!! Come off the group maybe in 3 months or so, so that you can't be accused of 'flouncing' off

Oh curiouser and curiouser! Did she give a reason?

She said she didn't really have time to go anymore.