Wife no longer interested since kids - advice

[Swimmingtosurvive]

Really would appreciate another perspective in this situation from somebody who may have been in a similar boat.

Me and wife have been together for 19 years, married for 12 and now have two kids (8 and 5). Since kids have been born our relationship has nose dived. We have maybe 1 date night a year but even that is stopping. We haven't been intimate since second child was born. It just feels like there's nothing left.

I feel like I've tried to make an effort. Quite a few times I've tried to arrange for us to go out or have a date night at home, but it's been refused. I try to go out of my way to be there and help her. Yet it isn't reciprocal.

I'm fully aware that the situation will be down to both of us and that I will have made mistakes that contribute to this. I have tried to speak to my wife about it. She has just said that since having the kids she has no interest in spending time with me but that I've done nothing wrong. The kids are here focus.

My worry is that if we don't look after our relationship, it is ultimately going to affect the kids and when they leave home we'll be left with nothing. That hurt really badly and I've been having some counselling since. She would not agree to couples therapy when I suggested it.

Would really appreciate some advice. Maybe there's something I've missed or someone has had similar feelings to me/wife. Any thing will help.

And actually it sounds to me like she has absolutely 100% chosen this life. And is very happy playing Disney Family, lunching with friends, doing her charity work. Sounds bloody lovely to me

@bookofeibon im not sure it’s a man/woman thing but I agree that the OP has described the situation in such a way as to get automatic support when the situation is likely to be in grey rather than black and white.

Having said that we all do that. The stories we tell ourself about what happened are rarely about us failing miserably (and then it’s also just as biased! Often from abuse or lack of self worth or both).

MN is also good at pilling onto people…. especially if you come on here giving a picture that is full of grey.

My two pence worth is that I don’t think the OP is actually doing things 50/50. He wouldn’t use the word helping otherwise (despite him saying he is. It’s a mistake on his part using that word etc…. He used that word too often for that to be a mistake)
The fact his dwife wants so much to spend time together as a family makes me think it hasn’t always been the case. I certainly have pushed time as a family before time as a couple when dh was ‘absent’ (nice mix of hobbies and work meaning he simply wasn’t there).
He is also never mentioning what sort of disagreements they have. And they must have some. This would probably tell a different picture again. Is he listening to his dwife bringing issues?
And if they are not having any disagreement then communication is crap and his dwife doesn't feel safe enough to bring issues with him (and that’s being intimate too! Not just the nice cuddling on the sofa).

What we know is that he doesn’t get the intimacy he wants and that his attempts at getting that (night out as a couple) failed. All about him. And about him having ticked the right actions (50/50 in the house and parenting, being present as a father, proposing nights out etc…)
Nothing about the last 9 years when his dwife was at a SAHM dealing with the dcs, housework etc… and how she might well have been shattered and needing support (not what he described as support btw. That should be part of the course in a truly equal relationship!). Nothing about what she has told him would help, what she needed from him etc….

I don’t think we will ever know.
And thats why he needs counselling. Alone or as a couple (or both)

Yes we have had the discussion about my wife returning to work. Her response was that she was not happy to put the children into childcare and that she is a better caregiver than a childminder. She said that if she did go back to work the kids would miss out on after school clubs like swim, dance and gym.

OP you don't need to apologise for being a man here. Providing you don't jump on certain boards and mansplain to us that is

If people read all your posts then the use of 'help' is fully explained. Skip over anyone's posts where they can't get past that.

Do you have any time to follow your leisure interests or is your life all work and family. Because you have the pressure to earn while your wife has the family live to cover while you are out of the house which still leaves her plenty of time for leisure. A considerate spouse would ensure you get some downtime too. An inconsiderate spouse should either change when it's pointed out to them the inequality or they should become an ex-spouse.

Sounds like the cost of living crisis isn't a reason for working then. What about in 5 or so years time when the kids are teens and more independent. She might struggle to get back into her previous field but she could retrain now ready for a future career?

I don’t think we will ever know.
And thats why he needs counselling. Alone or as a couple (or both)

//

He has been having counselling. She is refusing to have any.

Don't get hung up on having used the word 'help', OP. What you need to know about Mumsnet, especially as a male poster, is that many many members are hugely distrustful of men and much of what you say will be dissected, criticised and interrogated. Hence why you are experiencing so many questions on what exactly you do to help, what you could have done wrong and how you perhaps haven't supported her to your best.

You will find genuine and helpful responses and support here, but the above may seem like the underlying (or sometimes overlying!) tone. You have answered all the queries really well, so focus on the responses that speak to you the most.

Well I think she's pretty clearly told you that, for her, your relationship is ended

Sorry but this.

@Swimmingtosurvive ill refer you to your post where you described what to do/did to support her.
Dont you think that all of those are simply normal in a relationship? Why did you think you have been going overboard by doing that - aka you did something special and really supportive for her?

If you were once a team on doing the HW and parenting and that has disappeared, what does that mean?
You doing less?
Her automatically doing more because she was a SAHM but so the recognition of how hard work it is?

I don’t know what it means to you but the ‘working as a team’ when it comes to HW, parenting etc… shouldn’t have been affected by your lack of intimacy.

So that leaves emotional intimacy and sharing worried and successes etc…
At that point, you need to ask yourself what changed there. Did you listen to her? Did you REALLY listen? Did she listen to you?

Remember studies are showing that when women talk more than 30% of the time, men think they’ve taken over and they haven’t been able to say a word.
Women are expected to be caring and good listeners. Did you ever feel put out that she didn’t do that as much after having children?
Did you ever listen to her, truly listened, not offering advice etc etc?

Things are never simple. Nor are they one sided. Until you are happy to spell out your part in it, things change.

well, i find all this very defence of the OP very naive - but i'm clearly in the minority. i won't post again on this thread x

what i would say is, people simply do not see gendered spaces in a "gender blind" way. so a man being here and making this kind of post mainly to women DOES mean something different to a woman doing the same - it couldn't possibly be otherwise.

if i was having struggles with my DH and chose to "look for advice" in this way on a comparable male-dominated forum, i think many many eyebrows would be raised. how many of you would be happy if found out your DH had come to mumsnet for "advice" like this? (especially as it doesn't seem he wants advice - he clearly thinks his wife is unreasonable for a number of reasons and instead seems to want to hear that confirmed by other women).

it feels like there's a lot of prejudice here against SAHMs which is clouding responses

Maybe she just likes you being there as a constant reassuring presence like a comfy piece of lived in sòfa piece
🤔 in her life and that's just enough for her,

@Swimmingtosurvive

@Didimum

I wonder 🤔 why so many women are distrustful of male posters on mumsnet,
(🙄Sarastic side 👁 glance)

thinking of life experiences involving them and their intuition of them too...

Did I say that some men are not a problem in many women's lives? No. Did I say that poster's are wrong to ask what questions they find useful of the OP? Also no. I told him not to get hung up on his word use due to the interrogation as his answers had provided satisfactory information.

There is no comparable male-dominated forum. Mumsnet is a forum for parents – read the subhead. Just because there are a lot of women here, that doesn't mean men are not welcome to post.

I suggest you count the number of posts by women every day who also do not think they are being unreasonable and just want their feelings confirmed.

I would not care a jot if my DH sought advice out on a women-centred platform if he were very unhappy in life. He deserves a support network when it is available just like any of person.

Your wife doesn't want to spend time with your or have sex with you. She doesn't want to go to work either. It's all about what she wants. Your role seems to be to earn money and share household parenting duties. I wouldn't be happy with that. I can't understand how she thinks that this can continue. I don't think you have a relationship and I don't think any amount of counselling or date nights or you cleaning the oven is going to make any difference.

I think you might be forty or so. I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life with this woman who sees her sole role as being "a mother". What is she planning to do when the children leave home in 12 or so years time?

I'd see a solicitor and start divorce proceedings. There will never be a better time to leave and re-establish a life. It is easier to rebuild your life if you are younger. Imagine spending time with somebody who actually likes you and wants to have sex with you.

She will have to get a job and use childcare. It has been her choice to behave this way and choices have consequences.

You leave and find happiness elsewhere. That doesn't need to be with another person. There is nothing more lonely than being with someone who doesn't want to be with you. Your children will pick up on this eventually and is this really what you want to model as a healthy relationship?

She sounds incredibly selfish. Cake and eat it springs to mind.

This is a good post.

Choux’s post is spot on.

Don't let her guilt trip you into staying for the children's sake. You'll just become more and more unhappy and that's not good for them. They won't have to miss out on after school activities - they can stay at after school clubs and do their swimming etc on Saturdays.

Millions of parents go to work while also giving their kids a good childhood. Your wife is lazy, selfish and exploiting you. Feel free to leave her and build a better life for yourself. You can still be a great Dad without being their mother's husband.

I understand why women are suspiscious, the OP has described what many would recognise as a script of their own lives if told from the other perspective. My DP would tell a story very similar to the one that the OP is saying about me: he does 50/50, I lead a life of leisure, I'm selfish and spend time with friends intead of him. He conveniently leaves out the bit where I don't sleep with him or go on dates with him because he regularly screams insults at me, is always berating me, calls me every name under the sun, is controlling and takes any opportunity to "accidentally" hurt me by shoving into me or pushing me. I hate him. He hates me. We stay together for the kids (I don't care that you all think it's damaging, before anyone starts). If you asked DP he would say almost everything the OP is saying, with the exception of the me not working, and even then he minimises it and says I work part time (I don't, I earn more than him - if I ever mention this he starts shouting that I'm a typical fucking woman who wants everything paid for me, I'm a fucking cunt).

I've already said (under a different username) what I think in this case. I think that the OP is being genuine, his wife doesn't love him, he should give her one more chance at couples therapy if he loves her and if she's not up for fixing the problem then he should leave. Nothing but well wishes towards OP, who comes across as nice, genuinely concerned, and going through a tough problem. But I really don't like female posters getting a telling off from other women for voicing concern or asking questions. Many of the women on this forum have had bad experiences and their questions are legitimate.

@LakeSnake Thank you, that's a really helpful post in lots of ways. I'll try to answer some of the questions here now.

Don't you think that all of those are simply normal in a relationship? Why did you think you have been going overboard by doing that - aka you did something special and really supportive for her?
I didn't mean to sound like it was going overboard. It's what I would expect in a relationship. There are times when I have gone above these like helping her through difficult times before kids, support during illness but didn't want to post too much detail here.

If you were once a team on doing the HW and parenting and that has disappeared, what does that mean? You doing less? Her automatically doing more because she was a SAHM but so the recognition of how hard work it is?
I would say that the split is still the same as it was before kids. She does the school run and slightly more after school club runs due to my work, but away from that I like to think we share responsibility. I take control of all meals, bedtimes and everything over the weekend. By not a team I mean that we don't share as much in the way of joint decisions or work together to complete things e.g. used to do the dishes together and chat about our days whilst doing so, or work together on a 'project' like the once a year deep cleans or gardening.

At that point, you need to ask yourself what changed there. Did you listen to her? Did you REALLY listen? Did she listen to you?
I have really tried to listen and be there. I honestly have but feel that this may be the root of the problems if I've missed something. Like I alluded to before kids we got through some difficult times so it doesn't seem like it's always been like this. There are times when I don't think she has listened to me and supported me over recent years - I had serious problems at work and a spate of bereavements in my side of the family. We've spoken about this but can't get to the bottom of it.

Did you ever feel put out that she didn’t do that as much after having children?
Did you ever listen to her, truly listened, not offering advice etc etc?
Yes I do feel that about her. I never had anything major happen before kids, but she was always there to support me. Now I don't feel like she would.
As above I really try to listen and be sympathetic and feel that I could do that before. Now I think I must have got this wrong somewhere along the line.

Things are never simple. Nor are they one sided. Until you are happy to spell out your part in it, things change.
Thanks. They definitely aren't simple and I know there are two sides. This is why I've tried having the conversation to hear her side and why I'm going for some counselling. I'm quite happy to put my hands up and say I've made mistakes but I don't know what they are at the moment. If I knew at least I could try to work something out o matter how much it might hurt to hear it.

I'm very sorry that I have come across that way and can see your point. I honestly wanted some impartial advice. My male friends would not give that and I don't feel close to female colleagues to share this with. My other female friends are mutual friends and I wouldn't want to put them into the situation.

In all of my posts I have tried to honestly answer the questions put to me. If that has come across that I am being unreasonable then I am sorry. I'm just trying to navigate a tricky situation and trying to unpick why this might be happening. There have been lots of helpful posts that are helping me see things from a different perspective.

Sorry to hear about your situation and I appreciate your comments about my situation. I would like to add that I have not ever hurt my wife physically but accept emotionally I will have for things to get to this point. Not would I knowingly be controlling. I love her and just want to best for us as a couple.

I have not come here to cause upset or make people have a go at each other. I can see why me putting this up here would stir up negative feelings for some given their experiences - just like you have shared.