Wife no longer interested since kids - advice

[Swimmingtosurvive]

Really would appreciate another perspective in this situation from somebody who may have been in a similar boat.

Me and wife have been together for 19 years, married for 12 and now have two kids (8 and 5). Since kids have been born our relationship has nose dived. We have maybe 1 date night a year but even that is stopping. We haven't been intimate since second child was born. It just feels like there's nothing left.

I feel like I've tried to make an effort. Quite a few times I've tried to arrange for us to go out or have a date night at home, but it's been refused. I try to go out of my way to be there and help her. Yet it isn't reciprocal.

I'm fully aware that the situation will be down to both of us and that I will have made mistakes that contribute to this. I have tried to speak to my wife about it. She has just said that since having the kids she has no interest in spending time with me but that I've done nothing wrong. The kids are here focus.

My worry is that if we don't look after our relationship, it is ultimately going to affect the kids and when they leave home we'll be left with nothing. That hurt really badly and I've been having some counselling since. She would not agree to couples therapy when I suggested it.

Would really appreciate some advice. Maybe there's something I've missed or someone has had similar feelings to me/wife. Any thing will help.

@Wherearemymarbles
Absolutely agree with this. Joint therapy is never recommended in relationships where abuse is suspected as it usually serves as an extension of the abuse and the abuser uses it as a way of making themselves look reasonable.
If DW is serious about fixing her issues then she should have separate therapy to address her issues but she doesn't actually think that she has a problem with herself so likely wouldn't work anyway.

Thank you al again for your messages. I can see that the relationship isn't working and everything thats been posted here has helped me see things a bit clearer.

As mentioned I am getting some therapy/counselling for myself. Part of this is me coming to terms with what has happened, but also getting myself to a point where I can confidently make a decision. The sessions have shown me that I do have a desire to make sure I have tried everything I can and to explore my own role in the relationship. This will take time. But this time also gives me chance to start planning for a life away from my wife if that is the path I choose.

I've already had a brief look at finances and potential living arrangements. Again I need time to make sure these are all in order, as well as me being in a mental state where I can deal with the huge upheaval. I've confided a bit more with some friends and am building up a support network. It just feels incredibly scary and I do worry about the kids.

Time will tell how things change, but in the mean time any more advice on this thread I would definitely welcome. It has been eye opening and comforting over the last few days to read the posts. Not everything is black and white and it has made me think about myself as well as the marriage.

Wishing you the very best @Swimmingtosurvive. You seem very open to taking outside advice and views from friends, counsellors and Mumsnet. You want to do the best for everyone especially your children. You seem kind and sensitive and emotionally intelligent. You deserve happiness and love and I hope you find your way back to that.

(If you do end up divorcing you have no idea how much of a catch you would become when you were ready to date again!)

@Swimmingtosurvive I'm glad you've reached out to friends.

Go see a lawyer and ask about divorce. Don't have to have more than an initial conversation, but they will be able to lay out what you have to do, how long the process can take, what terrible mistakes to avoid.

If you know what the future holds down that road, you can then turn your mind to what you will have to do to travel down it. The law is a very blunt instrument and it's best to seek advice on its use before wielding it to freeing yourself.

Good luck.

@Swimmingtosurvive

Thank you al again for your messages. I can see that the relationship isn't working and everything thats been posted here has helped me see things a bit clearer.

OP whatever you decide, and I agree with many posters here who say you are better out of this relationship and encourage your wife to take financial responsibility for her own future whilst you both co-parent equally, I hope you have an emotionally more rewarding future. It's good idea for you to have your own counselling for as long as you need it, to centre yourself and give you more personal confidence and clarity in what the future holds for you. Please don't undersell yourself in whatever relationships you have in the future, whether personal or professional. 🌹

OP, it's not the breadcrumbs on the floor - and I can't believe you gave this done consideration!🙂.

Your wife has unfortunately fell out of love with you (sorry to have to say this ❤️), and any little thing you do irritates her. This is why seeing you try hard to get her attention is so annoying to her.

She's staying for the social status (married with kids) and the east life. I'm afraid that's it.

Life is so, so short, OP. You've lost your confidence now because she's telling you every day, without words, that you're not worthy of attention. But you completely are.

Give yourself a chance 🙂.

OP, your wife is 100% reading the thread so if/when you do decide to take advice, keep it to yourself/offline.

You already have the purse strings, so to speak, but make sure that you start keeping a copy of all financial information at work or at a friend's house so that when you are ready to discuss what the financial future might look like you have everything you need and she can't do something damaging like emptying the joint account or access a pension pot outside of whatever she is legally allowed.

I am pleased that you are exploring confident decision making and I hope that it will lead you to see your true worth as a partner and a parent rather than grovelling around after your current wife.

@Swimmingtosurvive
It's good to see that you're finally waking up to the realisation that you are in an unhealthy marriage. Keep up with your individual therapy so that you can grow in confidence and show DW that you finally know your worth.
Be very wary though. Others have suggested that she appears to be aware of this thread so perhaps it's time to leave it for a bit and keep your powder dry.
Be cautious. She may well try to be the wife that you wanted by being more open, more affectionate, offering her time, offering sex - accept everything bar the sex if you choose to but be wary. After your discussions this week she is aware that something has shifted (even if she's not read this thread) and probably realises that she's pushed it too far. Just remember this is the same woman who openly confessed that she doesn't really love you, finds your efforts annoying, doesn't value you as a person and doesn't want to spend any time with you outside of the family unit. Anything she offers now is smoke and mirrors and is not real. She's not going to have a sudden life changing epiphany - she might pretend to but it's not real. She is now running scared because all those plans she had are crumbling - she is really something and she's done a huge number on you.

Keep up your therapy and contact some of the men's advisory services for support. You should suggest to her that it's now time to start looking for paid work and be firm about it. Start building a closer relationship with your children - insist that you take them to some of their clubs and start taking them out on your own occasionally so that they can see that Dad's fun too. She does not get to dictate how you have a relationship with your own children.
Straighten up, stiffen your resolve and look to a better future where you are valued for yourself. Come back and read this thread when you feel overwhelmed or weakening - just to remind yourself that you are worthy of a happy life.

Completely agree with this ^^^

I can't believe what I've just read.

She has used you as a sperm donor and now for a continued lifestyle. She can't stand to have sex with you or even bare to spend some of her precious time with you. She's now 'trying' because she knows it may all come crashing down now.

I know several women like this. It happens more than you'd believe. Except yours refuses to concede a bit of duty sex to at least keep up the illusion.

If/when you leave her she will take you for every fucking penny you've got, citing lifestyle, giving up a career and of course the kids.

It's blatantly obvious what she's doing. I'd put money on her sleeping with you in the next couple of weeks, especially if you say you want to end it. She's fucking toxic and is a sorry excuse for a human being.

You do not treat someone you love like this, you do not treat your life partner like this.

You Sir, are being a doormat. Grow a pair and show yourself some self respect. Model to your children that staying in an unfulfilling, abusive relationship (she's been emotionally abusing you for years!) Is unacceptable and that you deserve more. You deserve to be happy, to have an active exciting sex life, to have a companion and intimacy. Fuck me you deserve a little fun in your life, instead you're walking around on eggshells, wiping surfaces as it best pleases her.

If the roles were reversed, everyone would be calling your partner a cunt.

I'm angry for you! Find your anger at the very least. You're far, far too accommodating and accepting of what little she is giving you in return.

I'm sorry if I've come across blunt. But, it needed to be said. I wish you all the best in the future and hope it works out in the end in YOUR best interests.

OMG this is creepy! Its almost like she read your thread and got spooked by the fact that we are all telling you that you should leave, so she came back and invented some fake reason for why she feels the way she feels.

While the fact she came to you seems like a good step, I am almost certain that it is all fake (she must have read this thread 😩). Even though here on MN we tend to be on woman’s side, I am sorry to say that on this one I just cannot be. She wants a beautiful like that you are providing, but if you can pleeeease make yourself invisible, would be great.

OP you seem to be a decent man and I am afraid that she will pull you back in. Please continue with counselling, but also insist that you go to couples counselling together. She will probably say no, but is she agrees, counselling should reveal her true nature. It will help you make your decision. Good luck!

She said the lack of affection comes from this resentment and her conflict about wanting me to be more responsible but then not liking it when I do. She said she has been distancing herself because she doesn't find me attractive when she resents me. I did hug her and she half hugged back. She said she thinks she still loves me but her confused feelings are stopping her from admitting that to me.

Omg, stop being a pushover! The woman does not work and the kids are in school. What business does she have having any expectations from you?? Especially ridiculous ones about how you wipe a counter??

In reality, it should be the other way around. Given that she sits at home freeloading all day (or doing her hobbies, whatever unnecessary stuff it is that she does for herself) - you should be the one to expect her to go out and get a job and contribute to the household bills and expenses...or else she should be expected to keep the house clean among other things to compensate for her lack of employment with no expectation of your participation in this. How dare she expect you do more and then be resentful when it isn't done her way. With you doing 50/50 and her not working, you are already doing more than your fair share. She is the one not equally contributing here.

What she said in this conversation does highlight her as being abusive op and I would not accept it or view it as a 'starting point.' The only way the conversation would have been even a little bit acceptable was if she said "I realize that I am at fault for these weird and controlling views I have. I'm sorry that I have treated you badly as a result. I love you and want us to have a meaningful marriage so I am going to agree to personal and couple's counseling to work on myself so I can be a better partner to you and heal our relationship" - and then for her to actually do that.

I'm sorry OP - but I don't believe she loves you and what she said is just a cover up. If it's true and she really feels resentful having a man that works and does 50/50 while she sits at home all day but feels resentful that he doesn't follow her commands - well then I'd say she is selfish and/or unhinged and you need to ditch her immediately. What a horrible example she is setting for your children on how she treats others.

As many people pointed out - she must have seen this thread and she's worried you will see the light and her freeloading will come to an end, hence the minimal effort, self serving conversation she had with you.

Right now all she has done is wrongly blame you for her poor treatment of you with no change in sight. She couldn't even say she loves you.

She is indeed gaslighting you...and I'd be getting quite fed up of it if I were in your position.

OP, - re your update - do you not even see how horrendous this is? She is a cruel, abusive, manipulative, gaslighting person. She doesn't love you and doesn't respect you. She has seen this thread or someone she knows has and has told her. Please, please talk to people outside your relationship - you can't seem to see the situation you are in. IT'S NOT YOU - IT'S HER.

I've read the entire thread and I have to say you sound absolutely lovely and very self aware.

I don't wish to sound mean, but why are you accepting being treated like this. It's coercive control. As for the talk, I wouldn't mind betting she's either read this thread, or is realising a change might happen, and she may have to get off her backside and work and end up raising 2 children on her own.
She didn't take responsibility for anything and basically gaslit you.

You deserve so much more!

Something has made her realise that she is heading for a divorce and I suspect she is either an MNer or someone has tipped her off about the thread. Really doubt her friends have been fighting your corner.

However, sheepish as she may be, she has offered you next to nothing beyond an explanation that her own unreasonable expectations and internal conflicts have placed you in a no-win situation.

I think talking will only get you so far here without concrete change in her behaviour.

I am a mostly SAHM (so some seasonal casual hours work throughout the year and a bit of volunteering) with x 1 DD age 15 and the idea of treating my DH who works full time, the way Mrs OP is treating her husband makes me feel a bit sick.

Someone who loves me and respects me and I know damn well would take a bullet for me ... to be so disrespectful and hurtful while living the life of Riley is such an awful way to behave.

But what if she isn't honest about her issues and blames the OP? That's pointless.

@HelloDenise
Well if she chooses to be dishonest then it's not going to help her. I suspect that the OP's wife doesn't really believe that she's doing anything wrong and would never accept that her behaviour is abusive such is the insidious nature of abusers. There is indeed something 'off' here but I can't put my finger on it exactly but it's possibly an affair partner or similar.

But what if she isn't honest about her issues and blames the OP? That's pointless.

In my experience that is exactly what abusive people do. My ex is emotionally abusive. When we had been doing couples counseling the counselor picked up on and flagged him on his selfishness, hurtful, and sabotaging behaviours in our discussions. Eventually we switched over to individual counseling and without my voice speaking the truth, he would start coming home from his individual therapy about how he acted out because I emasculated him etc. He clearly was lying and twisting everything to his counselor so all the counseling did for him when he attended on his own was to shift blame to me so that he could look like the victim and justify his behaviour 🙄

Anyway...I ended the relationship without a backward glance. He begged and pleaded for me to give him another chance and that he would change etc (which indicated that he knew he had been wrong all along otherwise he wouldn't have been begging forgiveness/saying he could change).

I did not take him back and I'm happier than ever. I wouldn't waste any energy on a controlling/abusive person ever again. Not even with therapy - it's zero tolerance here.

OP, I've got direct experience of a couple of women like your wife. Interesting, vibrant people until they had children, when parenthood seemed to entirely subsume them. All they could talk about was their kids, it was like an obsession. Their entire identity seemed to revolve around being a mother. Interestingly both were quite rigid and perfectionist in how they wanted things done, like your wife.

I felt deeply sorry for their husbands. It must be so boring and soul destroying for them. I don't think it's done the kids any good either.

I meant to reply yesterday to say it was unlikely to change and it seemed she had fallen out of love and that she probably wasn't the bad guy in that situation like a lot of people were making out, there doesn't have to be a good and bad guy for someone to fall out of love.

However if what you are saying about how you contribute to the running of the household is true and if her explanation for all of this is true and this was all about not cleaning things to her standard and that if you did things you were trying to make her feel bad, I'd honestly be fuming that she refused to speak up on the subject for years and years and let the situation get this bad.

I'd be so so angry.

@Mom2K What a weasel. And "emasculated" ffs. I've never heard of anyone being defeminated. Just another excuse from arse holes.

How many different ways are there to wipe down kitchen counters for the love of God?

@Swimmingtosurvive , what changes exactly are you unhappy about? Do you feel your wife’s focus has moved away from you?
I do think a mother is laser focused on her children. As she should be.
Please be more specific about what hurts you.