Why do so many women set the bar so low?

[Anonymouseey]

I’m feeling so sad having just read the latest ‘he does nothing but please don’t suggest I leave him thread’. Why? Why do women want so little for themselves? Every day there’s a thread like it, half the time the woman seems to pay for everything too so the man brings nothing!

I am in a same sex marriage. We have our issues but everything is 50:50 there is no doubt about that. When I had a child free weekend with friends my first thought is ‘right we’d better work out when my wife gets the equivalent for herself’.

So what’s the reason? Is it self esteem? Is it fear of being single? I do have slightly more understanding when there is financial reliance on the relationship because that must be scary but in the cases where the man doesn’t even pay it just makes zero sense to me.

Because somehow society have made them believe that are less without a man. The patriarchy is what it is.
A couple of thousands of year behind us saying that women needs a man caused that older generations of women don't have good standard and settle with those men. Even if those women works, do the house etc. A single woman is incomplete, to be complete she need a man and children. Big capitol letter bullshit said over an over, basically.
Younger generations are changing but there is still a long way to walk.

There are exception, but generally speaking the crap is massive above our shoulders.

Being in a same sex married is no guarantee of anything neither because is not about sex or gender is about the role expected.

Yes this makes absolute sense. It’s so sad. I really hope things are different for future generations.

I have a friend who stays with a cheating man who is physically and emotionally abusive qnd controlling but she's stayed with him because she's got 5 kids and she's been absolutely ground down by him. She's got no friends either because she doesn't talk very much and that's all down to him. I get so frustrated, trying to make her see sense but I've given up now. She'll never leave. I can understand how that type of man gets their feet under the table and maybe a woman who is a little bit vulnerable might accept it, and then the behaviour gets worse and worse and the woman puts up with more and more because they are not as confident or strong as they once were.

It won't. The beauty of a nebulous concept like 'the patriarchy' is it can be invoked in perpetuity.

I never imagined DH would do fuck all after having a kid. Even now DS is almost, DH won’t have him on his own for more than a couple of hours. He still does everything he did before we were parents. I do nothing.

If I could, I would leave tomorrow but I live in an expensive part of the country.

It's conditioning. There's the patriarchy, but there's similar abuse in many same sex relationships. It's not all about men v women. It's about not understanding (because of what was demonstrated to you as you grew up) that relationships are meant to be something you enjoy.

We do what our mums did, or replicate our relationship with them, usually.

It frightens and frustrates me. There is some hope - my adult (mostly mid - late 20s) DCs and their friends are largely noth focussed on relationships but on careers, friends, hobbies, travel. Relationships are either not a consideration, or a 'it might happen but I'm not really looking for it'. I know that may change at some point, but their approach is very different to me and my friends 30 years ago, which centred on the validation of having a bf / being engaged / planning a wedding.

It seems so obvious that a relationship should make your life better. If it doesn't - why bother? It seems obvious that if your OH puts you down / doesn't support you / lets you do all the work / makes you feel bad about yourself - they aren't a good partner and you'd be better off leaving.

Yet still some people's upbringing has conditioned them to feel they aren't whole without a man, and that if that man doesn't treat them badly, then it must be their own fault / 'men are just like that' / I need to fix him. Rather than thinking - he doesn't make me happy - I'm out.

The best time to find a partner (if you want one - they are an optional extra) is when you don't feel you need one. When you know who you are, what you like and dislike like, when you're living life to your best, know what you want in life. Then only couple up if the other person ADDS to that.

Thanks, I do completely understand what you mean but I do think it is more women putting up with crap from men. Me and my wife both grew up with terrible relationship role models, abuse, alcoholism etc. but we have re-learnt what healthy relationships are. Absolutely I have lesbian friends in unhealthy and abusive relationships but there never seems to be this same underlying expectation for one person to contribute zero. I
dont know if I’m making sense here!

I think it's the pressure to want a family, tolerating shit men to make it happen. I know a lot of people say they had "no idea" and they "changed" but I think if they were honest with themselves they'd realise the signs were there, they're just easier to overlook when determined for something else. There's a reason there's an image women are notorious for thinking they can change men.

I am not sure the men actually know tbh. Like they are conditioned into believing there’s a natural order and just unquestioningly go along with it. There is so little expectation. I sometimes just can’t believe how useless the men are in my personal and professional life. They just seem lazy and weak willed.

I agree OP. I had no idea there were so many appalling men out there until I joined these forums

Every day another thread where a woman says ‘is this normal’ lists the most abusive controlling manipulative ways her bloke treats her like shit followed by ‘I love him so much and he can be so lovely at times’ - yep inbetween emotionally abusing her he’s an absolute peach.

I don't get it. I can see in a long relationship with kids and joint finances it’s not so easy to just up and leave but many of these threads there’s been together a few months and the pattern of abuse already started.

It seems reading on here that women have gone backwards in terms of being handmaidens and accepting scraps just to have a man in their bed.

Id rather be single forever that tolerate that sort of BS.

@Anonymouseey Desperation and neediness I'd hazard. Some women, and I say women as they are the majority in this scenario, just cannot bear to "miss out" or be without a man.
I've been married 29 years. But I've seen friends who just can't function without a man in the picture. They jump from one bad relationship to another, with high, unachievable expectations. Then end up in crap relationships they have difficulty getting out of. They constantly chase unrealistic visions in their heads of the perfect relationship. Well here's news, no relationship is 100% perfect! The requirements don't match the findings! 🤣
There is also the added pull of all these dating sites. One of my friends, who's single at the moment, gave me 3 instances of men she'd chatted to, then met, who were absolutely nothing like the person they'd purported to be on their profile! I think that's a major issue too. People don't meet each other naturally any more, they're constantly on the hunt.
If I ever ended up on my own, that would be absolutely fine by me! I've never been that desperate for a man, all my serious relationships (of which, there have only been 3 in my life) have occurred naturally, I haven't actually been out scavenging! 🤣

I think it is just that some women put up with a little bit and then it just grows and grows. And perhaps the thought that your partner will grow up and improve the relationship.

My first husband was selfish and I could see he would never change so I divorced him. Best thing I ever did.

I think it's a lot to do with their own fathers. If they've grown up seeing their mother treated badly by the man they're led to believe is some sort of hero/perfect father/treats them like a princess, it's how they expect to be treated by their own husbands, it's what they think is normal.

It drives me bonkers when people say "but he's such a good dad" about men who are otherwise awful because they spend a bit of time and money on their DC. No, if they treat their DC's mother badly, they're a terrible father, doing tremendous harm for their DC's future, both boys and girls. They teach boys this is how a "good" man treats the mother of their DC and they teach girls this is what they should expect.

Mostly money, I think. Especially if one of the partnership (nearly always the woman in heterosexual relationships) wants to be a SAHM and have a nice lifestyle.

I don't mean to pick on you lovely but you have been so honest as to why you won't leave so I thought I would ask... do you not worry about your son growing up like his father? He will. I couldn't bear the thought of my child growing up and inflicting the same misery on to another woman and children.
We read on here about arsehole men and the poster will always say, he hates his own dad but has ended up just like him.

That won't change because OP leaves though. He's still the father setting the example. When he goes on to treat another woman just as badly, the son still learns this is how "good" men behave.

Please please please don't have any more children with him. And you CAN leave. You are worth more.

I do worry about it. I am working very hard to increase my earning potential to change my situation but right now, I can’t afford to rent privately, don’t qualify for social housing or UC, have no family to turn to and will have to prepare myself for a very lengthy battle. I won’t get a penny from my house until a judge orders it, so I need to be well prepared.

I’m hopeful it’s changing. The teens and 20 year old females I know don’t seem that interested in boyfriends compared to when I was that age. They seem too busy. Also perhaps seeing so many negative messages about men is putting them off? Rise in female same sex relationships too? I hope it means they will all be more selective and can make more choices around children and work.

Absolutely. When someone is asking if someone who is abusive can change, the response is always 'people don't change'.

And they're right. People don't change, the flaws that you ignored before children just got clearer/worse after them.

Trainbother · Today 07:48
I think it's a lot to do with their own fathers. If they've grown up seeing their mother treated badly by the man they're led to believe is some sort of hero/perfect father/treats them like a princess, it's how they expect to be treated by their own husbands, it's what they think is normal.”

I disagree. Quite the opposite for me. My father was abusive in every way, as was my brother. I decided at an early age that once an adult with autonomy, no-one would ever treat me that way and I went with it. Cut my brother out, haven’t seen my father for some 50 years.
If a boyfriend treated me with anything other than complete respect, they were gone. My husband and I have been very happy for 35 years. I can’t recall a single instance where he has treated me with anything other than the utmost respect and kindness and vice versa.
I consequently have absolutely no idea why some women accept some truly appalling relationships.

@Anonymouseey
Your situation is just that. YOUR situation. I have read plenty of threads in here written by women in same sex relationships where one is a female equivalent of a cocklodger. Sorry. I'm not sure if there is a term for that.
I've also read threads on here from men whose female partners are frankly shit. Fortunately the mostly female comments are in agreement that he should leave her.

It's not a woman/man thing. It's s some people thing.

MN is predominantly a women's site so of course there will be more posts detailing issues women are having with men. That doesn't make it universal.

Because somehow society have made them believe that are less without a man. The patriarchy is what it is

And a lot of women believe all men are the same so they might as well put up with the once they've got than just be equally disappointed by another.

This is true but it might sink in seeing that no one HAS to stay and put up with it.