Realising that my nagging made him fall out of love with me but did I have much choice?

[Fedupofchicken]

I was a nag. No doubt about it.
I was also a stressed out mother with two allergy children, a career to maintain and zero family support, so I needed his support and input in running our home and in family life. He didn't freely give it. So I nagged and nagged and nagged.

Until he got fed up of me and treated me with apathy until he eventually left me.

At the weekend, I went out with 3 of my friends, all married, all with children around the same age. I asked them if they have been nags too. It turns out they haven't but I already knew that, because I could see that their relationship dynamics were so much different to mine.

However, one of the stark differences is that none of them worked when they had preschoolers at home with them. It made me reflect that perhaps they didn't need to nag because home was their arena, whilst going to work was their husbands. I never had that opportunity as I needed to work too so that we could pay the mortgage, so I needed him to contribute to domestic life also. He was reluctant, but being the feminist that I am, I refused to let him get away with it. So I nagged every day for him to contribute and for him to see me and my heavy contributions which were burning me out.

I know he had a role to play in all of this too. He could have done more, been more readily helpful, thought for himself more. But one of my friend's husbands is a little oblivious when it comes to all things domestic; she just made the home her focus and work became his. He however doesn't have any time consuming hobbies and the one hobby he does have involves the children also which I think has helped a lot as my ex always felt entitled to his hobbies when I needed more support at weekends. She told me that he picks up on her stresses and tends to pick up more of the load at times, but I also know that my ex has always done much more domestically than her husband has ever done. Mainly because I nagged.

My own dad was pretty useless but my mum never nagged him, she just accepted that things didn't get done, as a result we lived in a very run down, filthy home as both parents also worked full time.

I just feel like women can't win no matter what route we take. I'm sure that for the greater harmony of the home, it's better for women not to work and to take care of all things domestic when children are preschoolers but I think that makes us so vulnerable financially.

One of my friends never nags her husband but is constantly burning out as she's a teacher with young children and he is absolutely useless as a parent. She's always poorly, always stressed and has no support from her husband at all domestically. Yet he still takes her out for romantic meals and treats her to special gifts and declares his love for her regular via text and also on social media. So she accepts it.

I'm embarrassed by my nagging overall. But I don't think I could have coped being made a doormat, even with romantic dinners and gushy texts.

I don't know what the answer is for women in these situations. One of my friends relies heavily on her parents to pick up her husband's slack. They look after her child so that she can work full time AND do everything in the home at weekends. But it seems wrong to put so much responsibility on elderly parents just so some men can go to the pub or on cycling weekends.

My neighbour has a fantastic, hands on husband who supports her in every way, but from what I have observed they seem to be few and far between.

If I could go back in time, I'd have picked a better man, or perhaps I'd pick the same one and not nagged. But then I wonder what might have become of me if I hadn't have nagged. I just look at some of my friends in their marriages, not struggling as single parents and I wish things were different.

As a man, I am not nagged and there are plenty of DIY jobs I should get round to.
I do appreciate the patience she shows. The other side of that (and this is a Scandinavian thing) is that she would estimate I do about 60% of the housework and work 60 hours a week. Of course, it is very self-serving for me to prefer this. I confess I do not miss what I experienced in the UK.

Why wouldn’t they know what needs doing though? They live in the house too and know that laundry needs washing, groceries need to be bought etc.

Some of these men just know if they pretend like they don’t know what they are doing, they’ll be given a hand hold and a list because poor men are just ‘oblivious’.

Why is it that the behaviour that from a male would be considered "assertively maintaining everyone's awareness of the tasks that need doing, and not allowing anyone to shirk off doing their share" is abbreviated to "nagging" when the person doing it is female.

Your ex is an arsehole OP.

'Nagging' is a interesting topic. Wanting help when you need it is not nagging.

Some of us, however, use nagging as a form of control. Were the requests entirely one way - did he ever ask you to do anything? And were the requests you made of him essential (obvs inc anything to do with DCs and necessary house admin) or was it more like you thinking up a list of jobs for him to do? If you found yourself asking him to do things repeatedly and it mattered a lot to you that they were done - why didn't you do them? Why did it matter that he do them?

This is not to say I think you did nag him, or that your nagging was unjustified if you did, BTW.

You weren't nagging. He was failing to step up and do his duty as a partner and father. Stop blaming yourself.

TBH I don't think your nagging is the causation of the state of your marriage.

I don't really nag, or didn't.

My husband was still not bothered about me.
I am disabled, and have had 2 of his children in the past 2 years. One of which has additional needs.
The man would literally watch me drown, even when I told him I was drowning he would pile more on.
It doesn't matter how I switched things up, he would NEVER step up.

I ceased to be treated like a person probably 10 months ago. He completely detached from me.

I begged for a change, I'm ashamed to admit that, but I did.

I remember telling him that he was only going to get so many chances, and that I would leave.

3 weeks ago, I did.

He wants his family, and now I'm unsure that I want him back. I don't want to ask for the bare minimum. I don't want to feel that everything is solely my responsibility.
I don't want to feel I have another child instead of a partner.
My H won't even get the opportunity to come back until he starts to take on some tasks related to the house or children.

The real question here, I think should be, what was he providing in the relationship for you? I really hope you start to see that nagging came from him effectively abandoning you. He wasn't really being a partner to you for you to nag like you did.

Me and my husband talk about this sometimes. I'm not a nag ... Because I don't have to (most of the time) because my husband isn't an asshole and understands that life duties should be shared, id say right now with 2 kids age 4 and 5 we are 70/30 but I dont mind it this way as his 30% is a lot of the big things whereas I do more things but smaller thigs

You could not have played this any differently he was the problem not you. His role as a partner would have been to earn more so you could work less or to step up and do more at home. Either way he failed you.

What a great thread, how about Classics @mnhq?

My exH referred to me as trying to project manage him. I was the better (professional) PM it's true.

I think the key issue is that you had different standards and priorities. What was important to you wasn't important to him.

My ex was the same. He constantly said "I'll do it later". I'd write lists which he ignored because they weren't HIS lists. I was burnt out working FT with young children and he thought that cooking dinner each night made him a saint.

I recall a weekend when I was using a wheelbarrow to move a pile of builders sand off the drive. My neighbour asked "That's hard work. Where's DP?"

"He's inside watching the F1. I'm about to cook a roast after I've finished here."

"Oh, you do the blue jobs as well as the pink jobs, do you?"

I realised that the simmering resentment was eating me up. Neither of us would change. So we split. I'm much happier now doing all the jobs without him!

"thinking up lists of things for him to do"
Do you hear yourself?! So you imagine women are out here making up lists of non existent jobs for the poor men to do
Also "Why didn't you just do the jobs yourself" get to fuck with that crap
If you are a woman I despair

Yes I am a woman. And yes I'm afraid to break it to you that some women do make up jobs for the husbands, just as some men do make up jobs for their wives - if that's the unhealthy dynamic between them.

There's plenty of old married couples I could introduce you to to prove the point.

BTW - I'm not saying that is what happened here.

It’s also true that a lot of ‘nagging’ happens because two people are operating in the same area but they have different standards (eg I want my DH to pull his weight in the life admin, but actually he doesn’t care if the kids do extracurriculars/ we buy birthday presents for people. My DH wants me to up my hours at work but actually I’m not interested in earning more - in both of these examples a complete division of labour would solve the problem, but in practice that is very difficult now).

I'm sure that for the greater harmony of the home, it's better for women not to work and to take care of all things domestic when children are preschoolers

Absolutely not! It's better for all adults in the house to work together and make sure the domestic tasks are completed. It's not up to women to do the drudge work, nor is it up to them to remind their partners about what needs to be done.

Moreover, women's careers are as important as men's. It's a shame that some people still don't recognise that. When women give up their careers because their partners are useless at home, they truly aren't doing anyone any favours (themselves, their children, or even the useless men).

I don’t like the framing of domestic labour as ‘drudge’ and careers as the pinnacle of aspiration. It’s just a way of devaluing women’s traditional arena and mostly a sop to capitalism. Plenty of paid work is drudgery and whilst cleaning toilets is no picnic, some domestic work can be satisfying, creative and fulfilling.

It’s actually not better in many ways to have both parents working, especially when children are small. If one parent can earn a decent wage (and that’s a big if), it’s less stressful if the other can be at home for a time.

This is an interesting stance.
I once argued this with him. I remember telling him something along the lines of "why don't you get a better job if you want me to do everything at home and that way I could work less. You need to work harder!"

That didn't half bruise his ego.
Yet he was basically expecting me to work harder all the time by his selfish omissions in family life.

I absolutely 💯 % agree with this response. It is a highly capitalist viewpoint. We've been brainwashed into only perceiving roles with financial gain as valuable. Care work, mothering/parenting has all been painted to look like some sort of low life side line work which nobody cares for anymore. It stinks.

I would imagine that women who have lazy selfish partners have enough to do without wasting time compiling lists of made up jobs that he won't do anyway! There shouldn't be any need for lists, he should do his fucking fair share.

It’s only less stressful if both people are happy with the setup and also both pull their own weight.

Not everyone finds working FT with young children super stressful either.

I don't see it that way at all. I think women have been told for far too long that they belong exclusively or primarily in the domestic sphere. Why should women be limited to this one area? It may be convenient for some men who would prefer to avoid being active parents or active partners in the household. But it does no one any good in the long run.

Yes! This. “Behind every nagging woman is a useless fuck of a partner”