Realising that my nagging made him fall out of love with me but did I have much choice?

[Fedupofchicken]

I was a nag. No doubt about it.
I was also a stressed out mother with two allergy children, a career to maintain and zero family support, so I needed his support and input in running our home and in family life. He didn't freely give it. So I nagged and nagged and nagged.

Until he got fed up of me and treated me with apathy until he eventually left me.

At the weekend, I went out with 3 of my friends, all married, all with children around the same age. I asked them if they have been nags too. It turns out they haven't but I already knew that, because I could see that their relationship dynamics were so much different to mine.

However, one of the stark differences is that none of them worked when they had preschoolers at home with them. It made me reflect that perhaps they didn't need to nag because home was their arena, whilst going to work was their husbands. I never had that opportunity as I needed to work too so that we could pay the mortgage, so I needed him to contribute to domestic life also. He was reluctant, but being the feminist that I am, I refused to let him get away with it. So I nagged every day for him to contribute and for him to see me and my heavy contributions which were burning me out.

I know he had a role to play in all of this too. He could have done more, been more readily helpful, thought for himself more. But one of my friend's husbands is a little oblivious when it comes to all things domestic; she just made the home her focus and work became his. He however doesn't have any time consuming hobbies and the one hobby he does have involves the children also which I think has helped a lot as my ex always felt entitled to his hobbies when I needed more support at weekends. She told me that he picks up on her stresses and tends to pick up more of the load at times, but I also know that my ex has always done much more domestically than her husband has ever done. Mainly because I nagged.

My own dad was pretty useless but my mum never nagged him, she just accepted that things didn't get done, as a result we lived in a very run down, filthy home as both parents also worked full time.

I just feel like women can't win no matter what route we take. I'm sure that for the greater harmony of the home, it's better for women not to work and to take care of all things domestic when children are preschoolers but I think that makes us so vulnerable financially.

One of my friends never nags her husband but is constantly burning out as she's a teacher with young children and he is absolutely useless as a parent. She's always poorly, always stressed and has no support from her husband at all domestically. Yet he still takes her out for romantic meals and treats her to special gifts and declares his love for her regular via text and also on social media. So she accepts it.

I'm embarrassed by my nagging overall. But I don't think I could have coped being made a doormat, even with romantic dinners and gushy texts.

I don't know what the answer is for women in these situations. One of my friends relies heavily on her parents to pick up her husband's slack. They look after her child so that she can work full time AND do everything in the home at weekends. But it seems wrong to put so much responsibility on elderly parents just so some men can go to the pub or on cycling weekends.

My neighbour has a fantastic, hands on husband who supports her in every way, but from what I have observed they seem to be few and far between.

If I could go back in time, I'd have picked a better man, or perhaps I'd pick the same one and not nagged. But then I wonder what might have become of me if I hadn't have nagged. I just look at some of my friends in their marriages, not struggling as single parents and I wish things were different.

This unfortunately.

I allegedly have one of the good ones and STILL find myself prompting reminding and re-reminding which honestly is just a dressed up version of nagging
I hate it and don’t want to be this person circumstances are making me become.

Nagging is what lazy, unhelpful, selfish people call those who do everything.

Oh, how I hate the term nag! Used by misogynistic men who don’t see you as an equal and want to get out of doing their share.
You weren’t a nag, just exhausted and frustrated from the lack of support.

Sexist word. Only to be used in the context of "I had a nagging feeling that..."

@Fedupofchicken
He failed. He failed. HE FAILED. Not you.
You thought and trusted that you were in an equal partnership. You were not.
You believed that you were loved and cherished. You were not.
You believed that you had a man who you could rely upon. Nope.
What you actually had was a manbaby who wouldn't hear or acknowledge your increasing louder, more frantic calls for help. He never believed that you were his equal. I don't say this very often but...what an absolute c**t he is.
Your nagging wasn't badgering and you need to stop seeing it that way. It was a cry for help. You were on your knees and he ignored your increasing distress - ignored it . That is not love - that is contempt and hate.
I suspect that his own mother did everything at home as a sahm or worked and still did everything. I'll also put money on him being a sex pest guilt tripping you into sex because he felt unloved etc etc etc.
The thing is this....although your friends look as if they managed so much better they are just like you - swans & ducks gliding on the top of the lake but paddling frantically below the surface. We all do it but some of us have to paddle harder to keep afloat.

I hope that if you have any sons then you're teaching them now that we need to expect and demand more from our (mostly male)partners. Females are SO heavily conditioned to be the 'caring' sex by our parents, peers and society that we tend to want to show prospective partners how lovely, caring and accommodating we are to their needs. Once ensnared we feel it's too late to start demanding equality as we worry that it will be seen as having sold them a lie so we carry on hoping that the partner will miraculously change or see the light.
The way forward is this - bring your sons up to actually understand and practice equality in a relationship and bring your daughters up to expect nothing less.

You are not a nag, and you were not nagging. You were trying to encourage a lazy, selfish partner to do his share in family life and in the home, unfortunately, due to his character flaws, you had to be repetitive in your encouragement. That's on him, not you.

What is 'nagging'? A woman repeatedly having to ask a man to do things she feels he is responsible for, but that he fails to do? And continues to fail to do, without bothering to put forward any counterpoint as to why he shouldn't for discussion, but by simply ignoring her, or fobbing her off?
If that is nagging (because it's a woman doing it, rather than a man, who would simply be considered to be voicing his requests/being assertive etc) then what is the alternative? Do all those things yourself or leave him I suppose. Realistically you should do the second. But most end up doing the first. Which is exactly the desired response.
Rather than stop the repeated requests from women to do things they can't be bothered with by simply doing what is asked, men instead try to silence them by calling it 'nagging' and making that taboo.

Hmm, playing devils advocate here, but OP, what are your standards like on cleanliness of the house, how much extracurricular your DC do, how much free time you expect both parents to get when you have young kids. If you are a perfectionist then your ex may have had at least a partial point, as I think expectations of both parents over housework, kids etc do need to be at least roughly in line for a partnership to work well. My DH is quite happy living in a messy house up to a point, and tbh that point of view is valid, as long as it doesn’t go too far! But on the whole, probably what the majority of PPs have said was true, your ex was lazy and disengaged.

You did nothing wrong. The word “nag” is used to keep women in their place, plain and simple. Your DH was the issue - he wanted the benefits of a combined income but not the trade off in pulling his weight. So he uses a deeply misogynistic word to keep you quiet.

As for your friends.. I think this is one that plays out over decades. It’s not always easy to return to the workforce after taking caring breaks from professional roles and that can leave women vulnerable over time. Partners can become unsupportive when it gets to having secondary school aged kids and magically expect their spouses to return to well paid work. Throw redundancy, illness, divorce or death into the equation and it becomes complex.

There is no easy answer really. How are you managing now? I hope it’s okay OP.

I agree. Don't let him blame you. He's a lazy entitled man

I remember exH screaming at me when I’d asked for help with Christmas - I had done everything, we had a 6 month old and a 4 y.o. He screamed vile abuse at me, threw things at me, smashed things because I had the temerity to “nag” about everything I’d done (which was everything). His solution was just not to do Christmas. Because it was “too stressful”. He was so lazy he would rather not put up a Christmas tree, decorate the house, buy presents, take the kids to see Santa, indeed make sure Santa arrived, organise a Christmas meal etc. Despite the fact he had two pre school aged children, peak Christmas magic age. And he earned hundreds of thousands of dollars so it wasn’t a finance issue. He was just totally committed to being a lazy selfish pig.

Last Christmas I did everything, as I always have, but I wasn’t resentful as I’m no longer married so I’m not constantly being let down.

He bought the kids no presents, didn’t bother to come over early to have breakfast or see them open presents or stockings (all bought and wrapped by me). So if I hadn’t done all the Christmassing all those years he really souring have bothered.

Nagging is just a brilliant word men invented to get out of doing their share.

I'm sure this point has been made but stop saying you were nagging. When did you last hear a man accused of nagging? It's mediaeval.

If he did not wish to do his share of household tasks, the options were:

earn enough to support a housewife's position (and choose a partner happy to fully take that role),

PROACTIVELY pay for outside help without complaint

Live in a midden with feral kids is not a viable option. He wanted to do the big grown up thing of getting married and having kids so he needed to see it through.

I'm not sure why 'expect wife to do everything on top of FT work' came into that list of options. It shows he is a pretty selfish, boring and lazy man making you repeat yourself on such mundane topics.

I hope you meet someone with a bit more life about them who just gets on with the basics of being an adult and doesn't make.it a big issue.

Your marriage ended because of his behaviour, not because of your requests for support

So if you are asked to do something, don't just say OK and do it when YOU feel like it

Say OK and SAY when you are likely to do it.

That might stop the 'nagging'

Or think - someone needs something doing. Would it kill me to do it when they want it doing?

If every single time you had to say something (nag) imagine if instead the words you had said were thank you as he had just done the thing already.

You were not to blame, he should have been doing his share. Don’t think about it anymore.

@Screamingabdabz - I'm 62 and you put that beautifully- as I posted on another post (about porn) I think many women put up with mysoginistic behaviour to keep their lifestyles- the part time job (or no job) the AI holidays, the activities for the kids. It all ticks over so long as they don't rock the boat , the cash keeps coming in and often has an element of dependence. A lot of men seriously dont remotely step up domestically. I always think when I see these guys out for hours cycling- I'm sure that's a hobby they love to get them off childcare or housework

You are not a nag, you are quite reasonably expecting him to pull his weight with HIS home and HIS kids and/or make enough money that you can stay at home and look after the kids if you wanted to.
I wouldn't have waited for this fool to leave I'd have kicked him out.

Honestly OP you should have left him first .
He wasn’t a team player he didn’t care enough about you . He put himself not his wife or family first .
You deserve better but you should have fallen out of love first .

Nope, this once again puts the blame and responsibility on the woman.
He should have BEEN a better man.
Its all on him.
Ive never had to nag, not once in nearly 40 years.
Why? Cos dh isnt a lazy sod and he has some self respect for the kind of man he wants to be, which has nothing to do with me. He wants to be a decent person, so he is.
Its ALL on him.

I do get what you are saying OP. I think it might help if we acknowledge that sometimes there isn’t enough space/free time/relaxation/headspace to go around and everyone is trying and no one is winning.

In other words, society has made life really hard for families with small kids especially if they live in a high housing cost area. Although marriages do break down because of useless men/nagging wives motif, I think more often marriages break down because life is just **ing hard and everyone is desperately trying to get some help from somewhere.

My DH and I have had some moments recentlt because I’ve gone back to a more than full time
Career this year and my DH has had to pick up more family/kids wise without having any more time to do it. But even though we were super angry with each other, we realised we actually aren’t annoyed with each other, we’re annoyed because our individual needs are being met and we just had a cry about life being tough, apologised for being mean and tried to figure out some small improvements together.

You seem to think there's only 2 options. Nag or shut up and do it all yourself.

How about choosing a man who just cracks on and does his share because he doesn't want to live in 1950?

Nagging, like ladylike, is a deeply patriarchal word and should be avoided. You are framing the issue wrong by using the word 'nag' with all its female to male connotations.

No no no you are not a “nag”. That’s a misogynist term used by selfish, useless men to denigrate and silence a woman who expresses frustration at repeatedly having to ask for reasonable contributions to the shared responsibilities of the childcare and household. You were entirely fair and justified in your expectations of coparenting and running a household as equal partners who put in equal effort and made equal sacrifices. Who should have been entitled to equal free time and opportunities for leisure and fulfilling hobbies.
Unfortunately your ex husband was a lazy, entitled, sexist arse who realised that you weren’t going to just give up and do it all like some repressed 1950s housewife. So he left. Because it was the lazy, easy way out for him. Could you have given up advocating for yourself and stayed together? Possibly. But if you’re going to be a single parent and manage the entire load alone anyway, whether he’s there or not, then surely doing so without the added resentment, rage and labour generated by his presence is far better in the long run? And think about the example for your kids of growing up with a role model like him for future partner dynamics. Im not saying it’s easy and you are totally justified in all your feelings but genuinely -you are not to blame here. His refusal to treat you as an equal is.

Sorry to sound harsh OP. I'm just annoyed as I know so many young women choosing a lifestyle that is baffling to me. So many living more like my parents generation (with the added stress of working full time) than my own generation, which looks to me like we hit peak equality decades ago and it's all gone downhill again.

It's not your fault your marriage ended, it's his for being a lazy selfish entitled fucker.

‘Nagging’ is simply the necessary repetition of unpalatable truths…….

If you share a relationship with someone, both partners should contribute equally to the running of the home, obviously depending on what other work commitments they have.

No-one should have to constantly remind a partner to do their share.