Realising that my nagging made him fall out of love with me but did I have much choice?

[Fedupofchicken]

I was a nag. No doubt about it.
I was also a stressed out mother with two allergy children, a career to maintain and zero family support, so I needed his support and input in running our home and in family life. He didn't freely give it. So I nagged and nagged and nagged.

Until he got fed up of me and treated me with apathy until he eventually left me.

At the weekend, I went out with 3 of my friends, all married, all with children around the same age. I asked them if they have been nags too. It turns out they haven't but I already knew that, because I could see that their relationship dynamics were so much different to mine.

However, one of the stark differences is that none of them worked when they had preschoolers at home with them. It made me reflect that perhaps they didn't need to nag because home was their arena, whilst going to work was their husbands. I never had that opportunity as I needed to work too so that we could pay the mortgage, so I needed him to contribute to domestic life also. He was reluctant, but being the feminist that I am, I refused to let him get away with it. So I nagged every day for him to contribute and for him to see me and my heavy contributions which were burning me out.

I know he had a role to play in all of this too. He could have done more, been more readily helpful, thought for himself more. But one of my friend's husbands is a little oblivious when it comes to all things domestic; she just made the home her focus and work became his. He however doesn't have any time consuming hobbies and the one hobby he does have involves the children also which I think has helped a lot as my ex always felt entitled to his hobbies when I needed more support at weekends. She told me that he picks up on her stresses and tends to pick up more of the load at times, but I also know that my ex has always done much more domestically than her husband has ever done. Mainly because I nagged.

My own dad was pretty useless but my mum never nagged him, she just accepted that things didn't get done, as a result we lived in a very run down, filthy home as both parents also worked full time.

I just feel like women can't win no matter what route we take. I'm sure that for the greater harmony of the home, it's better for women not to work and to take care of all things domestic when children are preschoolers but I think that makes us so vulnerable financially.

One of my friends never nags her husband but is constantly burning out as she's a teacher with young children and he is absolutely useless as a parent. She's always poorly, always stressed and has no support from her husband at all domestically. Yet he still takes her out for romantic meals and treats her to special gifts and declares his love for her regular via text and also on social media. So she accepts it.

I'm embarrassed by my nagging overall. But I don't think I could have coped being made a doormat, even with romantic dinners and gushy texts.

I don't know what the answer is for women in these situations. One of my friends relies heavily on her parents to pick up her husband's slack. They look after her child so that she can work full time AND do everything in the home at weekends. But it seems wrong to put so much responsibility on elderly parents just so some men can go to the pub or on cycling weekends.

My neighbour has a fantastic, hands on husband who supports her in every way, but from what I have observed they seem to be few and far between.

If I could go back in time, I'd have picked a better man, or perhaps I'd pick the same one and not nagged. But then I wonder what might have become of me if I hadn't have nagged. I just look at some of my friends in their marriages, not struggling as single parents and I wish things were different.

As others have said, the word, or concept, 'nag/nagging' directs attention to the wrong thing.

The idea of 'nagging' focuses HOW someone is communicating, not WHAT they are trying to communicate. It is a linguistic device used to discount what is being said.

Someone who is committed to understanding their partner and who is feeling 'nagged' could helpfully say, 'You keep saying/asking the same thing repeatedly, and I can tell you are frustrated. Let's talk this through properly so we can work it out together'.

It's unlikely that someone using the term 'nag' would see this as a viable alternative as the two responses ate underpinned by different intentions.

Conceptualising another's discontent as 'nagging' doesn't mean that the 'accuser' is in the wrong for objecting to or failing to deliver what the 'nagger' wants or expects. Their expectations could be unreasonable. They are, however, being unreasonable in dismissing the issue as nagging.

Exactly this! And I never hear the word 'nag' ever used to refer to a man. Your husband sounds like a prick.

Let the lazy, useless bastard go. And reframe your thinking. It's hard to do when our language is inherently misogynistic ie the word "nag". As PP said, nag=asking your partner for help when he's not pulling his weight. Nothing wrong with that.

I just feel like women can't win no matter what route we take

this is nonsense. My husband did his fair share without nagging as did all my friends husbands. So it’s women who marry lazy mysoginistic arseholes who can’t win. Don’t lump us all in with you and your mates.

You need to find a way that works for both people in the relationship. Yours didn’t work for either of you.

XH used to complain. ‘Stop nagging’. I responded with ‘If you did what I asked the first time I wouldn’t have to “nag”’. This was very basic things like putting his dirty washing in the washing basket instead of leaving them where they dropped 🙄 not leaving his dirty socks in the living room when he’d taken them off. He rarely did household chores. He moaned at the cost when I hired a cleaner and moaned about having to tidy up before she came. He talked me out of having her come because of the cost and ‘surely we could manage between us’. He offered to be responsible for the bathroom. One job, to clean it once a week. We lived in a 4 bed house. Do you know how many times he actually did it? Once! I remember thinking ‘Do you contribute more than you cost me?’ and at some point the scales tipped. I’ll admit I saw what he was like before we married/lived together but naively I thought he’d change. I won’t make that mistake again.
I had an accident and after 6+ hours in A&E I came home and the first thing he said was ‘I’m going to have do everything from now on aren’t I?’ (Not even a ‘How are you feeling?’). I remember thinking that at least he’d see how much I normally do…but no, all he saw was how much more he had to do! God did he moan about it. Once I’d recovered, we split up. There was resentment on both sides. Honestly, even though financially it’s far tougher as a single parent, it’s better for me.

I don’t think you nagged him. I think you just didn’t let him get away with being a lazy shit and not pulling his weight around the house when you both worked and should both pitch in equal amounts towards parenting, housework, and admin. You did the right thing not just being miserable and putting up with it as so many do. As you say, different dynamics with a SAHM, but that wasn’t your situation and he should have done his share without the need to be reminded constantly.

It is interesting that you are reflecting on what went wrong and why in your marriage, but like others, I think the word ‘nag’ is misogynistic as it is only ever applied to women.

I think there is a bit of truth in what you say about both parties working - it certainly adds stress to a relationship as it will inevitably create conflicting demands - but there are huge risks in not doing so…

Children grow up surprisingly fast. I live somewhere with lots of SAHM and look around me at those who have been at home for 14-15 years (never worked again after first child) and wonder how on earth they would get back into the workplace or adjust to doing so. It would be a huge loss of autonomy, even in a pleasant workplace. Let alone their DH adjusting to the new situation…

I think this is actually spot on. Towards the end, I remember that this is actually the narrative I used to use with him. I completely flipped it around and started saying "your expectations of me are far too high." He would argue that he hadn't insisted that I do anything, which would grind my gears because I'd have to point out what would happen if I didn't do those things. He once argued that me doing housework was a "choice." It's a disgusting attitude to have. He seemed to argue the toss about everything.

I hired cleaners in the end but was met with passive aggressive remarks about wasting money.

I would really think about the word ‘nagging’.

Any word that blocks your communication or gaslights you and is only used on females is sexist and a weapon.

You didn’t ‘nag’ you repeatedly asked the man who is supposed to be your partner, to be a partner!

I am sorry you are regretful as you are well rid.

Any person who can relax happily while their loved one runs themselves into the ground is an appalling and selfish individual.

I would put your energy into the future, you can reflect on the fact that a relationship is supposed to make your life better, easier, happier and let that be your bar for future relationships.

I know that’s what I did x

i think you nailed it near the end of your post.

“I should have chosen a better man”

unfortunately yours was never going to be the husband you wanted. He probably would have left for one reason or another eventually anyway.

I think you must be seeing that you need to refocus the blame from you to him.

I do not agree having trad roles is better and this is why.

My mum was essentially a housewife with little jobs for pin money. She is a highly intelligent woman and she missed out on so much potential life by essentially being the household domestic servant. She is 80 now, my dad is 81. He retired 10 years ago and lives a a life of relaxation, but guess who doesn't get to retire? My mum. She still waits on him day and night, does everything in the house and garden, shops and cooks all their meals and cleans. The worst part is my adult brother lives at home and also treats himself to servant mum too. He does absolutely nowt to help round the house. No wonder he has never had a girlfriend and he is nearly 40! The worst part is I blame her. What sort of fucked up feminism is that!

I should blame society for making us 2nd class humans in the first place.

Please stop saying nag, it’s an awful word. Nagging is the repetition of unacceptable facts.
it was unacceptable your husband was a misogynistic lazy cunt and you had to remind him daily.

There are some great and helpful replies on here. You and your kids will be able to move forward and have a great life without this lazy man. He choose to look away from the work that is normal family life then put it back on you by calling you nag. You will be fine as a single mum but it will take time to settle it and there will be tears and hard work. My husband left us because I stood up and told him no more bullshit and after a year of readjusting and tears we are thriving x

Expecting to be treated as an equal - and a human by the person who is supposed to love you isn't nagging... but I can see why someone incapable of treating you as such would call it that

Nagging is just a negative word used to describe a situation where (generally) a woman has to repeatedly ask (generally) a man to do something that he should have already done. Because you had to nag your husband, he was clearly not bothering with his responsibilities.

Honestly I agree most men are useless. We've all taken a pretty good sample size of the men we know. They're mostly shit.
I have an incredible one now, I know a couple of OK ones. I know more abusive than OK ones. And the rest are abit shit to pretty shit.

The relationship wasn't happy for you, you tried to fix it. But he wouldn't. So it broke. The alternative was being miserable and burnt out. You couldn't win. You weren't wrong to nag.

So what is the situation now? He’s left, so how does he cope on his own? Do you still love this miserable misogynist?

Or “DH consistently refusing to contribute to family life made me fall out of love with him”

the word nag in all its meanings is a pejorative term. Please stop using it about yourself

Expecting an adult you live with do an equal share of the housework isn’t nagging.

I completely disagree that it’s related to the woman being off work. I think it makes it work, it’s then expected for her to do all the work as she’s home all day and this then carries on as a PP has noted and they then do it forever whether they return to work or not.

I am lucky I don’t know any shit men. All my female friends work and always have done. Their partners do an equal share of the household and childcare tasks and it’s never been an issue. My husband and I have done equal housework since we lived together, it’s never even something I thought was unusual until reading about things on here. Same with a couple of exes I have lived with.

You marriage didn't end because you were a "nag", your marriage ended because your H repeatedly lied to you and you called him out on it and he didn't like the that.

For example, you ask "can you please do the dishes while I put the kids to bed?"

He says "yes".

You spend an hour bathing the babies, reading them stories and putting them to bed and come down to the kitchen which is a mess and the washing up isn't done.

You say "you said you would do the dishes when I was bathing the kids"

He says "I just haven't got round to it yet, don't nag me, I'll do it later."

You sit on the sofa and watch tv together, at no point does he get up to do the dishes.

You both get ready to go to bed, you ask "are you going to do the dishes before you come to bed."

He says "I'll do them in the morning."

You say "but that'll mean waking up at 5am and probably waking me and the DC in the process because you want to go to the gym in the morning."

He says "I'm tired, stop nagging, I'll do it in the morning."

Alarm goes off at 5am, waking you up. He turns it off and goes back to sleep. You can't sleep because you're annoyed at being needlessly woken up at 5am and knowing the dishes will need to be done when you get up in the morning.

Because you can't sleep, you decide to get up and do the dishes.

Your movement wakes him and he asks what you're doing, you tell him you're going to wash the dishes as he's not doing it.

He tells you angrily that he said he was going to do it and he is going to do it and he's getting up now to do it l, why do you have to be such a nag? He hurls himself out of bed, slamming the bedroom door, goes downstairs, banging pots and pans around noisily and waking the kids up.

You get up to see to the kids, but there's no settling them now; everyone is wide awake.

In 20 mins he's back upstairs, in a bad mood, pulling out his gym kit, huffing and puffing and then he's gone for the day.

It's 6am, you have two wide awake kids, a day that should start at 7am and your kitchen looks like a blind person cleaned it, with food still stuck to the saucepans and the countertop sticky.

Let me promise you, your "nagging" isn't the problem here. See how many lies he told you? See how poorly he treated you and the kids, not caring about your sleep or routine? See how he got angry when confronted with his lies? See how little he contributed to family life?

I know this isn't an actual scene from your life OP, but I'll bet there were loads that were similar.

It. Is. All. On. Him.

Isn't it funny how so many men are willing to engage with equality when it means another adult contributing to the finances but less so when it means they have to contribute to the domestic sphere.

Your post is an interesting one to me op because as someone in my 50s I’m amazed that in modern Britain whole swathes of men still expect their wives to carry the domestic load.

Now I grew up in the 70s, so I might expect it more from the generation of men I grew up and the sexist attitudes that prevailed when we grew up, but It’s really opened my eyes being on MN and seeing that millennials - 30-somethings - are still perpetrating this and even young professionally qualified women are still being expected to work and flog themselves to death at home too. And intelligent young men just sit back and let them.

I think some women use avoidance tactics by adopting the Hinch-Stepford wife yummy-mummy role. ‘Hubby doesn’t lift a finger’ because he earns the big bucks, enjoys his hobbies and she skips happily around with her insta-house and insta-children. They convince everyone including themselves that this blissful existence is the natural order of things. This is precarious though - because scratch the surface of that and that wife can’t rock the boat. She isn’t to challenge or have any expectations of him. She can’t ask him to not go on that stag do or cycling weekend. She can’t ‘nag’ or not be in the mood for sex at the drop of a hat or put any pressure on the status quo. It’s a benign dictatorship while he’s being kept happy, but it could quite easily not be.

I would rather be single than under the tyranny of a dinosaur man who expects women to just stfu and fulfil the role of ‘fuck and cook’. I want my relationship to be a partnership of equals - adventuring life together. Sometimes that does get gnarly when you’re negotiating new mountains together such as babies, sickness, unemployment etc.

But ultimately men need to understand that this is a joint endeavour. And women, sadly, need to be the ones to have to courage to educate and teach them when it’s lacking. And they both need to continue modelling that with the next generation. Until we do this, we are always going to be in the misogynist cycle.

So op, I applaud your boundaries and wish more women were like you. We all need to be holding men to account and raising our children to have different attitudes so that girls of the future aren’t still battling this same fight in the next generation.

You've got to think about what the alternative would have been? He goes to work and leaves all the child rearing and house running to you whilst you also work a full time job, you'd have no time for hobbies yourself or downtime. You'd have run yourself into the ground with no support. The relationship would have broken down anyway as you'd have had years of pent up resentment and I expect you'd loathe him.

So what you did was ask him to do his 'fair share', but he chose not to take your thoughts and wishes into consideration, he chose to let you run yourself into the ground and do a full time job plus looking after children and a house. He's showing you how he sees you, as someone to prop up his life rather than an equal partner - the relationship wouldn't have lasted

The relationship broke down because you both had clashing expectations of what the other person should contribute towards the relationship - it wouldn't have lasted

The only way it would have lasted is if one of you put your own boundaries to one side and did exactly what the other wanted.

This isn't on you at all OP. There isn't a biological reason why men can't handle domestic duties. It's just laziness and there isn't any pressure from society for them to change.

Take parenting as an example; a dad taking his disheveled-looking kid to the park is still considered a great dad. A mum in this scenario would most likely be judged for the appearance of her child.

The only thing you need to change OP is drawing a line in the sand where you won't tolerate such laziness in future partners. The first sign of laziness or weaponised incompetence and you know they are not the one for you.

It doesn't matter if you grew up with a dad who was that way, it doesn't make it acceptable and it isn't something you have to tolerate.