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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
Packingcubesqueen · 22/04/2024 17:14

I would definitely ditch the friend. You don’t have kids with her so that’s an easy one.
With him it would depend on how he steps up and if I thought I could forgive or I’d end up being bitter forever. When there are children involved you have to try harder than you would try for a friendship, that’s not blaming her more.

EatCrow · 22/04/2024 17:14

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 16:59

Thanks everyone. Sorry for the big influx of posts, I was just catching up after the school run.

I’ve made it plain to him that any ‘fixing’ of our relationship, whether that’s to be together, friends and co-parents or just civil co-parents, it’s on him to sort. All of it.

I’m going to choke down some food and go to the gym.

I’ll be back, almost every post has been valuable and helpful. I’m extremely grateful. It’s brought clarity to a lot of it and made me realise some things I hadn’t identified.

💐 Sorry they aren’t real flowers. I’m so sorry this has happened to you. Stay strong.

AccountCreateUsername · 22/04/2024 17:15

Janetime · 22/04/2024 12:03

She hasn’t got off Scot free. She’s lost her best friend and it will impact the others on the group too.

even so, OP doesn’t need to protect that woman’s relationship or reputation. Tell her partner OP. Personally I think you husband would have carried on minimising and lying if you didn’t have proof.

M think carefully about why you’d stay with him and the years of misery and uncertainty the future most likely holds Flowers

Justnavigating · 22/04/2024 17:15

I have been through this and just wanted to say I’m sorry you are - I know how gut wrenching it is .

my husband kissed my friend when drunk . She told me and then I asked him and he admitted it. They were both ashamed and didn’t know why or how it happened - from what they both said it was fleeting . Didn’t make a difference to me , I was betrayed .

Both were begging me to forgive them. Many reasons for this , won’t go into them all , but I knew my husband was drunk and regretted it , I knew she did too . We were having problems at the time - there were many issues between us . She was also very vulnerable . I accepted the reasons that led to it , but yhe action of doing it I struggled with .

It led to me and my husband facing to to some deep issues and going through counselling - which ultimately improved our relationship.

I forgave them both , in time. The friendship is not the same- I ended it , as I couldn’t carry on after it . We were part of a group and used to do things together and that was lost, but I did make sure she knew I forgave her as it was unfair to forgive him and carry on the marriage but then vilify her for it. For me , I knew it was probably more my husband - she was in a bad place and he is a kind man , I understood that she was confused and saw attention and that was her way with men ( she is a victim of past SA and has been hurt a lot and craves a man that cares - everyone sees me and my husband as the perfect couple , he treats me like I’m some kind of queen , he puts me on a pedestal - aside from this obviously ) . For him - we had lots of issues , he’s insecure and there were reasons for him to think I wasn’t interested in him and was up to something myself ( although I wasn’t ! ) I genuinely think for him it was a drunken thought of “ she’s going to leave me , she has someone else - I’m going to do it to her “ . He says he didn’t , he says it was both , but I believe he leaned in .

it took a lot to get to this point for me . He had to work hard for my trust , and we did do a lot of counselling but ultimately I didn’t want to throw away my marriage when I j ew it wasn’t love or sec or anything more than a moment of madness .

Really think it through - you know your relationship- you know deep down if he loves you , you know if there are issues deep down , you know if you can work through it and if you don’t know now , you will eventually. Take your time , get your anger out , think of your feelings not theirs - don’t rush to be ok and get past it - learn from it , allow yourself to feel what you need to feel

Vive42 · 22/04/2024 17:19

Perhaps I’m incredibly distrusting but I would never have left:

  1. a beautiful friend
  2. who has form for flirting
  3. with lots of alcohol
  4. with my husband who also has form for cheating
  5. alone into the night

It’s a recipe for disaster.

I would be utterly paranoid because I know humans can’t resist temptation, most of them. To confirm they’ve still ‘got it’.

Men are attracted to beauty, that’s their number one driver so having a beautiful friend I would always ring-fence her because bees… honey… a lot of men like to test their prowess. They are weak and think with their dicks.

What I think is really shit about your friend though is that it is she who put her arms around your DH.

Presumably if she hadn’t made the first move he wouldn’t have got into hot water.

She is a snake. I’m so sorry OP.

Your DH is just a typical man. Flattered by the attention and milking it for all it’s worth by crying. What a sap! It makes him deeply unattractive at least to me.

This is the second ‘best friend kissed my husband’ story in a week on MN.

Both involved silly amounts of alcohol and the two involved splintering off alone.

Alcohol will push down barriers and egg on hidden desires. The way to avoid it is to STOP drinking all together and STOP leaving them alone.

Cheating happens in these chance opportune moments.

Don’t let them happen. Keep alcohol and best friends and into the night chats banned.

AccountCreateUsername · 22/04/2024 17:21

Maddy70 · 22/04/2024 14:16

Nothing actually happened.... drink happened....

You have made your point. I doubt anything like that would ever happen again.

Is it really worth tearing a family apart for?

It depends if you value trust, emotional security and not being gaslit and lied to.

CheapThrillsMeanNothing · 22/04/2024 17:23

Maddy70 · 22/04/2024 14:16

Nothing actually happened.... drink happened....

You have made your point. I doubt anything like that would ever happen again.

Is it really worth tearing a family apart for?

He's cheated before, so why wouldn't it happen again?

BirthdayRainbow · 22/04/2024 17:24

Just because you've forgiven more previously does not mean you have to forgive this. It's so common for people to be more upset about an emotional connection than a drunken one night stand with a stranger.

Listen to your true gut feeling. But I'd be ditching the friend for certain.

BirthdayRainbow · 22/04/2024 17:28

I stayed after h had an affair for reasons not relevant. I'm divorcing him for something much worse, nine years after his affair. But what still rankles if I think about it is how little he did to try and fix things. I had long emails with all the right words but no fucking action.

That is worse somehow.

KreedKafer · 22/04/2024 17:31

I’ve been trying to arrange couple therapy for years but he didn’t engage

If you've been trying to arrange therapy as a couple, for years, does that means you haven't had the happiest of marriages even before this happened?

I think anyone in your situation would feel hurt, angry and betrayed, regardless of the circumstances. That's a given. But aside from that, does it feel like a sudden, out-of-character bombshell landing on a previously happy and harmonious relationship? Or does it feel like the last straw in a succession of difficulties? Obviously, it's devastating either way, but perhaps for different reasons. I think that would make a difference for me in whether I wanted to save the marriage.

Chatonette · 22/04/2024 17:32

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 11:08

I’m not totally sure. Stress, both lost their mums a year or two ago (this was told to me in a way that suggested I was morally obliged to forgive).

Thinking about it now, there’s been lots of times she has vied for his attention. It just never occurred to me not to trust them.

I had a friend like this—always seemed to want to validate herself by proving that she could get attention from my/other friends/even her cousin’s man! When I first started dating my (future) husband, she grabbed his hand in a club and it really pissed me off. I dropped her as a friend because I REALLY liked this guy and didn’t want her playing her games with him/me.

Pocketfullofdogtreats · 22/04/2024 17:34

Best wishes, OP. I concur with the post above about drink plus beautiful woman plus opportunity equals disaster. I hope he is deeply ashamed of what happened and is willing to 100 percent prove to you that he's learnt his lesson and won't allow himself to get into that kind of situation again. You've forgiven him once before. I would be making very sure he knows it's 'three strikes and you're out'.

IhateSPSS · 22/04/2024 17:35

I have cheated in the past, never in a marriage but in a serious relationship. I just wanted to come on and say to you OP, this is not about your worth, your ability to work it out, your self respect, your tolerance. This is about two damaged people who don't respect themselves or others enough to use their moral compass and make the decent choice because they fail to meaningfully relate to their most important people, their spouse, the children of the family and their friend. Do not be torturing yourself or trying to understand them - it's on them to understand why they have been shits. Both of them have a responsibility to you and the DC to be decent and they broke that contract. It's awful and says a lot about them and nothing about you.

I had a big falling out with my DH in November last year - I behaved awfully. It wasn't about cheating but I was emotionally abusive towards him. I woke up the next day with a terrible hangover and the realisation that my issues were impacting on my family so I quit drinking, and have started treating this horrible part of me with honesty and professional help. Nobody asked me to do that because DH didn't think it was that bad a situation but I did. Unless either of them show real reflection and understanding of the impact and why they broke that contract I wouldn't put any focus on them. Put the lens on you and your DC now and write down the measures you can take to find a settled position on this, leave them to do the hard, dirty work of reflection and loss and don't take any responsibility for that. Focus on you and your contentment.

Lost019 · 22/04/2024 17:38

I think the real question is, do you think you will ever be able to wholeheartedly trust him again? Would you trust him to go out and come back home and tell you the truth or would you have this in the back of your mind niggling you forever?
Are you someone that can forgive and forget? If not your happiness will severely suffer and it will surely impact on your family life & your kids.

What an awful situation OP. You have to truly think about your long term happiness and I wish you all the best for whatever you choose to do.

AStepAtaTime · 22/04/2024 17:39

No I would not end my marriage over this. I picked up from your post that your husband was very quiet and shame-faced afterwards. He knew he’d done wrong. It was a stupid mistake and honestly, I think it was your “friend” who put him in a really inappropriate position. No he shouldn’t have gone along with things but he knows that and is deeply regretting it. I would give him a stern dressing down and make him fear for the marriage and commit to working on things to repair what you have together. I don’t think he probably even wanted this to happen - don’t throw an otherwise good marriage away over a stupid mistake.

And never speak to the “friend” again.

Toastyfeetbythefire · 22/04/2024 17:40

piscofrisco · 22/04/2024 11:11

Yes to @IncompleteSenten. My h used to be very alarmed when I went out with my friend-think he was worried she would give them away.
And worse still she was in absolute bits when she and I went to a festival and she kissed some random man. Begging me to not to tell anyone 'not even h' as she was so ashamed etc etc. It wasn't that. It was that she didn't want my h to know that she had effectively cheated on him during their affair. The panic she was showing about it was totally out of proportion-I found it odd at the time, but she was going through her own divorce so I just put it down to her feeling weird about that.

This was also my first thought

StopStartStop · 22/04/2024 17:40

Keep your life as simple as possible. Focus on yourself and your child. Send the faithless bastard on his way. He knew she wasn't you!

It's not your fault at all, not about anything you have or haven't done. It's about two people seeing an opportunity and taking it, and neither of them giving two hoots about you. A kiss this time... and if you let it go, what next?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/04/2024 17:41

At first he said, though had retracted this and apologised, that I was only entitled to his comfort if he was able to remain my husband

Apology or not, for me this says so much about his mindset, to say nothing of the fact that he thinks he's in a position to start making conditions

Clearly he feels entitled to cheat, to lie and now to bargain about what you should expect from him, and only you can decide if you wish to go on living with such a man

Wildhorses2244 · 22/04/2024 17:42

I think that the fact this happened in your house is also a complicating factor.

You have children young enough to need a babysitter. What if one of them had walked in on him snogging their mum's friend?

This is more than just him breaking your trust, it is a really really poor parenting decision as well.

AStepAtaTime · 22/04/2024 17:44

Just re-read your first post. So she insisted with him? She’s the treacherous one here. He didn’t make a move on her. He’s still in the wrong of course but definitely no, in this scenario I would not end things. Just make bloody sure it NEVER happens again and if it does, that’s it, he’s out on his ear.

Conniebygaslight · 22/04/2024 17:48

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:50

Thank you. I’m so appreciative of such a level response. I’m just so hurt currently. It looks bloody awful on the video. Awful. So intimate. Really intense.

He’s saying all the right things. I’ve been trying to arrange couple therapy for years but he didn’t engage. We’re not good at communicating. He’s saying he will do it now and he’s being more honest with me than ever, probably, about lots of things. I know he wants to work it out, he’s following my lead, but I’m just so shocked by it at the moment that I can’t see the way to go. I also hate having to be the one to decide everything. I know I don’t have to make a decision at the moment but I hate this limbo stage.

You’ve been trying to arrange therapy for years but he wouldn’t go?

Mom2K · 22/04/2024 17:49

Nor do you have to believe the MN trope that you must immediately leave an otherwise good marriage because one of you made a mistake. It's just not realistic and the only people you will hurt are yourself and your family .

It wasn't one mistake. I missed it in the earlier comments but apparently he has done this before. This is his character. It's who he is.

Neither does it sound like an otherwise good marriage. There are communication issues and OP was trying to get him to go to counseling before but he always refused. He's only agreeing now because he's been caught again and she is more likely to leave given that it's (at the very least) the second time (but I bet it's more, she just hasn't found out anout the other times).

When there are children involved you have to try harder than you would try for a friendship, that’s not blaming her more

I think at the end of the day, staying is out of convenience/the fear of starting over or because of feeling like you still love that person and not having the strength to go when you know you should (which sadly usually results in years of trauma and further mistreatment before those feelings of attachment finally turn into anger/hate. At least, that was my experience). I don't believe in staying for the kids because ultimately what they will observe in their parent's marriage going forward is not going to be beneficial to them. When I finally ended my marriage, I was absolutely convinced that this was what was best for my kids, and wished I had done it sooner. It was hard at first but now we are all happier and healthier than ever.

Crumpleton · 22/04/2024 17:49

AccountCreateUsername · 22/04/2024 17:21

It depends if you value trust, emotional security and not being gaslit and lied to.

And said "drink" is never going to pass the OP DH"s lips again.

RazzlePuff · 22/04/2024 17:49

Is it cheating?
its a huge violation of trust. I blame the friend MORE because she has revealed herself to be the worst kind of woman, the kind who steals from her good friend. You confide in her, so she has extra tools in her seduction toolkit.

it might make her ego explode with happiness to know she stole your man completely and broke the marriage

That’s one revenge reason to keep him, and cut her out 100% and never fail to mention to mutual friends that she is not to be trusted, ever

I have a feeling she has canoodled with your husband previously which is 100% why he doesn’t want you alone with her

keep him chuck her

AStepAtaTime · 22/04/2024 17:50

Sorry just to add - all men - even the nice ones who love you to the moon and back - are primed by nature to be opportunistic. Therefore, with this in mind, no way would I ever leave my DH, as loyal as he is, alone in a room with a beautiful woman and drink and music late at night. I don’t care what people think, it’s part of their genetic makeup to basically copulate with as many women as they can so primal engineering would make it very very difficult for a man under those circumstances to enact enough willpower to walk away from an embrace - initiated I might reiterate, by her, not him. Don’t create or allow conditions for the primal programming to surface.