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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
TrueMonday · 22/04/2024 15:42

I wouldn't get bogged down in the details of what has gone on between them @Totalfuckingshitshow . Instead, work with what you know. You know what you saw. They're both shit-heads. Her, for approaching him and embracing him in such a way which will usually mean he will need to place his arms around her body. Him, for reacting in the way he did when he had the option to gently remove her arms from around his neck and explain that she's crossed a boundary for him (and for you) which he is not prepared to accept.
If you decide to stay with him I would recommend you cut her from your lives completely. If you decide to leave him, and if you continued your friendship with her, this memory will taint your relationship with her as you know she is not fully trustworthy.

auspreg · 22/04/2024 15:43

For me, it's the lying when questioned. That would be it for me. He had his chance to own up to it. He chose to lie.

I also believe there is history between the 2 of them. Very suspicious.

IMustDoMoreExercise · 22/04/2024 15:51

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:52

This was my instantaneous feeling. I don’t know if it’s knee-jerk or impractical. And it somehow doesn’t feel right to ditch one and not the other. Ugh.

But you havn't got children with the other.

I am not sure I would end my marriage over this if I had small children but it also depends how the counselling works out.

Maplelady · 22/04/2024 15:57

I think therapy is a great idea. The purpose is to get everything out on the table and understand each other, it’s not to keep couples together. It’s quite normal for people to others attractive when they’re in a committed relationship although we don’t really like acknowledging that. I don’t really know what made him cross the line that night (although I don’t believe that she was comforting him). It might be a mistake he deeply regrets or it might just be he’s ashamed he got found out. You may be able to restore your relationship or may not be able to un-ring this particular bell in your mind.

JosiePosey · 22/04/2024 15:57

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:57

Whatever I want. Therapy, stopping drinking, total honesty, starting over…

I don’t want to put limitations on someone’s life though. That feels wrong. I want the two closest people to me to have controlled themselves.

In our early days there was some cheating on his part, when we were very young and hadn’t been together very long, but I never thought it would happen again after marriage and babies and not with my friend. I only found out about the early stuff years later.

Is it cheating? Do you guys see it as cheating? It feels like cheating.

Whatever I want. Therapy, stopping drinking, total honesty, starting over…

Until the next time.

Just fuck them both off.

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 22/04/2024 15:57

notofsoundmind · 22/04/2024 10:47

I would ditch them both

Easy to say, less easy to do

WelshSmog · 22/04/2024 16:02

You asked him outright and he lied to your face... I'm very all or nothing and the lie would hurt more than the kiss. I've also gone through stuff to make me the person I am now so I would be out, sorry to say OP

M1Holly · 22/04/2024 16:05

You've had very level responses on here, which is good. I'd just like to add one piece of food for thought, which is quite stark so please don't read the following while you're feeling particularly fragile...

He had cheated on you before. He hid it from you for years. It's not clear from your post whether he came clean or you stumbled across the information (it sounds like the latter). He's now cheated on you again (of course kissing is bloody cheating - does he do this with his male friends? Would he be cool with you doing this with another man?) He lied, repeatedly, to you about that too. Signs point to him and your friends having done this before, and who knows if he's also cheated on you other times you don't know about?

Even if it's just those two times, this is who he is - at least with you. This is not a man who so adores you that he would never risk doing anything to lose you, and he may simply be such a weak character generally that he would need this sort of outside validation no matter what relationship he was in.

Just bear in mind that if you continue this relationship, you're essentially accepting that this will likely happen from time to time. Some people can live with that - people decide that maintaining the status quo of the rest of their lives is worth the occasional indiscretion from their partner. It's not for me, as it would kill any live i had for that person stone dead, but it may be for you and no judgement for that.

Just please make the decision with your eyes open. You can't control his behaviour to ensure it never happens again, and it's not realistic to assume that it won't. So the question you have to ask yourself is, "can I live with that?"

Best of luck to you, OP.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 16:13

FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 13:44

This is the dort of thing that years ago I would have had no problem with

But having seen several husbands and bfs of friends use those late night moments when you’re finishing up drinks as an opportunity to pounce, I’ve revised this attitude. (And mind these are people with whom there had been zero sexual tension or flirting).

There is also research to show the main predictor of cheating is simply opportunity and reduced resistance to temptation – whether that be because someone is emotionally depleted, drunk, or in an intimate setting with someone who is not their partner.

Those late night lingering drinks at home or in the garden when everyone else is in bed are, let’s face it, a very intimate kind of space, and precisely the moment when cheating is likely to happen.

We might also not like to admit it, but our partner’s friends are actually in the unique position of being close and trusted enough to have this kind of access where confidences are shared and intimacies develop. I’m sure the cheating with a friend scenario is commoner than we would like to admit (while still inexcusable).

This is hitting home. I think because looking back at it, it feels obvious as a chance to cheat, I feel like a twat for trusting them both.

OP posts:
Anonymous2025 · 22/04/2024 16:14

You are 100% not overreacting!
But imo you need to move on . You hate er issue you have regarding the house you need to sort and start living apart . You suffered 2 massive betrayals, this is not on you OP this is on them , but you won’t start growing until you get distance from both of them . They are both awful people

CactusMactus · 22/04/2024 16:16

KittyCollar · 22/04/2024 11:02

I think once a cheat always a cheat or at least the ability to do it. I’d certainly view him differently. As for the mate, she can fuck right off.

Everyone has the ability to cheat.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 16:16

FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 13:52

I read this as the friend overcompensating with breeziness to try and mask the weirdness.

I did too, that’s what tipped me off in the morning.

OP posts:
KittyCollar · 22/04/2024 16:17

@CactusMactus Yeh true. I should have said he has the propensity. He has history. I wouldn’t trust his character.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 16:20

Blondiebeachbabe · 22/04/2024 14:04

My first H did similar, many many times. We too had small children, so I did try to move past it, but after 4 years, I threw in the towel. In that 4 year period, he just did more of the same. Always when drunk, and always with my friends.

As we were in the process of separating, he slept with my very best friend in the world, so I actually lost my marriage and my friend at the same time. I absolutely hate him now. He has done the same in every subsequent relationship, so I think that's just who he is.

If I was in your shoes now, with my current DH, I'd walk away without hesitation. It's a huge betrayal from both of them, in your bloody house while you sleep upstairs (I also had this scenario as well).

Please, please don't continue your relationship with your "friend" either. She's absolute scum.

Jesus, I’m sorry your ex did that. What a piece of work.

I initially found it much easier to be angry at her, as I have so many emotional links to him. But now I’m feel so very sad that a very important friendship is over. It might be no loss because of how she behaved, but it’s making me sad.

OP posts:
KittyCollar · 22/04/2024 16:21

FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 13:44

This is the dort of thing that years ago I would have had no problem with

But having seen several husbands and bfs of friends use those late night moments when you’re finishing up drinks as an opportunity to pounce, I’ve revised this attitude. (And mind these are people with whom there had been zero sexual tension or flirting).

There is also research to show the main predictor of cheating is simply opportunity and reduced resistance to temptation – whether that be because someone is emotionally depleted, drunk, or in an intimate setting with someone who is not their partner.

Those late night lingering drinks at home or in the garden when everyone else is in bed are, let’s face it, a very intimate kind of space, and precisely the moment when cheating is likely to happen.

We might also not like to admit it, but our partner’s friends are actually in the unique position of being close and trusted enough to have this kind of access where confidences are shared and intimacies develop. I’m sure the cheating with a friend scenario is commoner than we would like to admit (while still inexcusable).

Exactly

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 16:24

ClawedButler · 22/04/2024 14:09

I wouldn't end the friendship or marriage over this, but that doesn't matter. Because it's not MY marriage and MY friendship.

You feel hurt and confused and are now second-guessing yourself as to what you should do and feel and say.

My advice would be to not make any decisions just now. You don't need to. You can make decisions at a time that's right for you. You can process your feelings in whatever timeframe you need.

Focus just on today, and what you need to get done (feed/change the baby, feed/change yourself, bugger off to Cornwall, shut yourself in your bedroom, punch a pillow - whatever you need to do).

Don't worry about what's right or fair or reasonable right now - you're still in shock, and need to take care of yourself at the moment.

I did punch the sofa pillows earlier while flumping. Felt a bit better. I have a punch bag in the garage, might go a few rounds.

OP posts:
CutthroatDruTheViolent · 22/04/2024 16:25

I wouldn't be able to get over this @AllBlackEverything. I think I would consider a separation and he could 'start again' so to speak to win me back, but I'm not good at forgiving or forgetting.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 16:26

Lookingoutside · 22/04/2024 14:18

OP, something about the tone of your posts suggests that you haven’t been happy in the relationship anyway? Never mind the whole truth of what they’ve done.

You say she has tried to get his attention before? She can’t be a good friend to you, and is unable to be regardless of what she wants or believes.

It sounds like he will take up attention and physical contact with others when it is offered and bugger the impact it has on you.

You deserve more than this.

I’ve been looking back at our friendship through a different lens and I have identified times when I think she looked for attention. But I’ve never had cause to believe anything was going on before.

OP posts:
NowThatYoureGone · 22/04/2024 16:29

I say this because you have children.
Don't say you forgive and forget if you don't mean it.
You might at some point (if you stay together) WANT to mean it, but dragging on an unhappy marriage is a shit environment for kids.
The woman is now gone, don't grieve for her, she didn't care about you.
As for your husband, that's for you to decide.
If marriage counselling is something you want to try then I agree with others, he has to arrange this.
What a horrible pair of bastards.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 16:30

AsMyGranWouldSay · 22/04/2024 14:38

Sorry to read this OP, I can imagine how painful it feels.

Thing is, being sad, grieving or being drunk isn't in any way a mitigating factor.

Either he was so blind drunk he didn't know what was happening, in which case she'd have had to pin him down and/or he'd have been falling about, so the footage would have looked more like a messy snog and not an intimate moment.

OR, he was indeed very sad (or not) and did know what he was doing, and went along with it because he wanted to and is only sad now they've been caught.

I wouldn't normally abandon a relationship over one mistake. But I'm not sure this was mistake. I guess the truth will out.

One thing I do know is that if you let this go without very serious consequences for him it will most likely happen again.

OR, he was indeed very sad (or not) and did know what he was doing, and went along with it because he wanted to and is only sad now they've been caught.

I wouldn't normally abandon a relationship over one mistake. But I'm not sure this was mistake

This is how I feel.

OP posts:
MzHz · 22/04/2024 16:31

Didsomeonesaydogs · 22/04/2024 10:49

Your DH needs to get to the root of why he allowed this to happen if you are ever to trust him again.

Sorry is as sorry does. How is he proposing to fix this?

this.

But i would ditch the friend without a second's hesitation

Leopard85 · 22/04/2024 16:33

Maddy70 · 22/04/2024 14:16

Nothing actually happened.... drink happened....

You have made your point. I doubt anything like that would ever happen again.

Is it really worth tearing a family apart for?

Something did happen. And it was caught on CCTV. Who knows what else might have happened other times?

If the DH has acted in a way that means his wife no longer trusts him or feels safe or secure in the relationship and can't be happy going forward then it's him who tore the family apart, not her.

I wonder would he be forgiving if he had seen her on CCTV with his best mate.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 16:33

Rewis · 22/04/2024 14:43

Whatever I want. Therapy, stopping drinking, total honesty, starting over…

Mya again issue is this. He is basically putting everything on you. All the emotional labour to fix it. You have to give him rules and tasks and he will follow. Not scrusllg putting in any effort. He should be telling you what he intends to do (I will stop drinking, I will go to personal counseling, I will organise couples counseling for us).

This thread has made me realise he needs to be doing this instead of sitting back with puppy dog eyes waiting for me to tell him what I need.

OP posts:
PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 22/04/2024 16:35

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:57

Whatever I want. Therapy, stopping drinking, total honesty, starting over…

I don’t want to put limitations on someone’s life though. That feels wrong. I want the two closest people to me to have controlled themselves.

In our early days there was some cheating on his part, when we were very young and hadn’t been together very long, but I never thought it would happen again after marriage and babies and not with my friend. I only found out about the early stuff years later.

Is it cheating? Do you guys see it as cheating? It feels like cheating.

I don’t want to put limitations on someone’s life though. That feels wrong. I want the two closest people to me to have controlled themselves.

That is understandable. BUT telling him what you need / want if your relationship is to have any chance at all is not the same as putting limitations on him. You are simply telling him what you would need. He is free to decide whether he wants to actually do it.

Edit: I am not saying that everything is (or should be) up to you, not at all. But if there is something you definitely want or need it´s perfectly fine to simply tell him. What he does with that is up to him.

ap1999 · 22/04/2024 16:37

No OP I wouldn't end a good marriage because of this one specific drunken fumble .

End it because you don't want to be with him anymore. You don't have to 'pin' it on something.

Nor do you have to believe the MN trope that you must immediately leave an otherwise good marriage because one of you made a mistake. It's just not realistic and the only people you will hurt are yourself and your family .

MN don't pop round with a shiny medal because you have 'been strong' and LTB because you refuse to accept that partners sometimes make mistakes.

Ultimate it is down to the question - are you/were you otherwise content in the marriage. If yes then move on. If not then divorce.