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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
80s · 27/04/2024 12:37

Haven't read all the posts so sorry if I am repeating things.
The point just struck me: both lost their mums a year or two ago (this was told to me in a way that suggested I was morally obliged to forgive)
I had this from my exh when I spoke to him about him texting a work colleague at all hours. He said they were talking about his dead mum and that she understood it because her mum had cancer too. I later read their emails and they did not mention anyone's mum while talking about what they had got up to in bed together. Who knows what your husband's been doing, but my experience has told me that yes, people will stoop so low as to use a dead parent to put their partner off asking any further questions.
I've heard from others that an affair started shortly after the death of a parent. Obviously people are more vulnerable at that time. Things they might not have done otherwise suddenly just don't seem that big a deal. They're aware of their own mortality and want to do something that makes them feel alive. So if you're thinking back and seeing odd stuff they have done before in a new light, that might be a time to focus on.
Watch out for them letting you fill in the blanks for them. If your husband says "I was crying because, you know..." - ask him to explain it in more detail. Don't do the work for them, coming up with explanations. Maybe they haven't actually got an explanation and will be delighted at what you come up with.

Our relationship is challenging, for various reasons. ... I’d seen multiple doctors and was starting solo therapy.
It's OK to let this situation, and his previous cheating, influence your choices now, after this unconclusive turn of events.

NB: if your husband does go to therapy, don't assume that he will be talking about whatever issues you think he's talking about. Mine was getting help making up his mind whether to go off with his affair partner or not, based on the innovative picture of our marriage that he was painting. (And he only went to a few sessions with the therapist. The other times, he was with his affair partner.)

Jonersy22 · 27/04/2024 12:49

@Totalfuckingshitshow I've been in a similar position, and i stayed for another 7 years after the cheating to work things out.

What happened was: My mental health suffered and at times i thought i was going crazy. I started getting physical symptoms i'd never had before: asthma, lump in breast etc.. Tests and dr visits all the time.

It was only when i gave up and allowed all my real feelings to surface, with whatever the cost, when it all started to unravel. I felt the betrayal full force. I aknowledged it was done to ME and i didn't have to understand the perpetrators side. My feelings mattered to me the most. No 1 priority. I didn't deserve to live life of mistrust, always doing detective work by looking for clues. Putting the needs of others ahead of mine. Never receiving full and deep aknowledgement of the inner workings of a being i was married to.

So, in the end it was divorce. My health improved straight away. I'm sad for the dc sake, but now i live a life of clarity, and that for me is happiness. I am also working heavily on my own self, and if i ever meet someone again, i am wiser and more certain in terms of what is a healthy relationship .

Hugs to you ❤️ Allow your feelings is my best advice. And aknowledge what those feelings mean in terms of your marriage. If you push them back into a closet, they will resurface in many other physical and psychological ways in the coming years.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 27/04/2024 13:10

Volpini · 27/04/2024 09:50

Hello OP
So much kind and clear advice and insight in here, I don’t have much to add other than to say that your strength and clearheadedness and emotional clarity shine through in all your posts.
I know you are in pain and anguish, and I am so sorry for this pain when you have only recently given birth (so much to say about that) but you seem like nobody’s fool. Whatever the eventual outcome, I can tell from your posts that you are resilient and astonishingly clear sighted enough about your own situation that you are going to be ok.
Let go of the concept of a “right” or “wrong” decision. There is only the now and how you feel - we can never know what the other choice would have brought, so all we can do is follow our instincts and - given what you uncovered through instinct - you are very in tune with yours. I hope you are continuing with your personal therapy as it sounds like a gift (if that doesn’t sound odd) that this has blown up whilst you have a therapist.
I get the sense from your posts that you do already know what you will do, but perhaps not quite ready to take that action or even articulate that - and that is ok too. This is your life, there’s no rulebook, you get to say what is or isn’t right for you and in your own timeframe. YOU get to decide whether or not you are being unreasonable. Not the husband, not the family, not friends, not mumsnet. You. Because you are the one who has to live with the consequences of staying in a marriage and working through this, or deciding that it’s not going to work for you.
Finally, you are an absolute Queen, how you are handling this. You have my absolute respect. I wish you and the kids an absolutely wonderful future. I promise you there is one still awaiting you because you sound brilliant.
Lots of love.

Thank you for this gorgeous post. It’s given me a real boost.

OP posts:
Dineasair · 27/04/2024 13:11

gannett · 22/04/2024 13:21

Don't let them play the "drunken mistake" card. I've sat up late drinking with male friends who have partners, and even talked about emotional things, but it's really bloody easy for everyone involved not to cheat.

Don't fall into the trap of tying yourself in knots over whether the decision you make is the "right" one or not. The wrong decision has already been made, by those two, and whatever you choose to do is what you need to do in light of that. Ending the marriage is neither right nor wrong; staying would be neither right nor wrong. The thing you should focus on to help you make that decision is whether you can trust him again. Not conditionally, not with caveats, but properly. If you can't trust him again you're setting yourself up for a horrendous life of paranoia and misery. And it's not a question of whether trusting him is right or wrong, it's about what you feel.

I think "just a kiss" is a red herring as well. It's the intimacy, the location with you in the same house and the betrayal with your best friend. To my knowledge neither DP nor I have cheated on each other but I've always thought that if he kissed one of my friends in our house, it would be a much greater betrayal than (for example) a one night stand with a stranger while travelling in a different country. In other words the scale of the betrayal is not correlated to how far they actually went.

The knowledge that he'd cheated before would be very, very hard to overlook for me.

Well said.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 27/04/2024 13:21

Quitelikeit · 27/04/2024 09:56

You still won’t say how much he had to drink?!?!

It is relevant……

Dont get too sucked in to this thread when people are telling you to quit your Whole life over a drunken snog!

I mean he could just walk away and tell everyone his marriage ended over a drunken kiss.

You haven’t said if you believe he has a long crush on her?

I didn’t realise someone had asked that specifically. I’m not sure. I was in bed. They had a couple of drinks extra I think, spirit and mixer, but they were standing and walking around quite normally, and he sent me a totally coherent text message shortly after it happened. Drunk but not wasted, I’d say.

I don’t know if he had a crush. He very much says not now, but I’m wondering if he is protesting too much on that score. He scoffs at the concept of this not being the first time. I don’t know. I suspect it may not be, but I’ll never know. We know he’s unlikely to tell the truth if he suspects it’ll lead to more trouble.

OP posts:
Totalfuckingshitshow · 27/04/2024 13:26

Grumblevision · 27/04/2024 11:24

Hello OP. I had a thought re the eyebrows (well kind of) - does that sort of thing happen during the PMDD? Are you able to keep tabs on symptoms that crop up, even if they seem unrelated? I'm having some perimeno suspicions and chatting to similar age family members, they've mentioned things that I didn't even think to include in my tab keeping but that have eased for them with hormones. I don't doubt that this stuff happens as a result of major events, I just wondered whether the two combined are doing an extra major number on you and whether it's helpful to try and unweave the different facets... Maybe as you come out of it and start to feel human again. I had a strange brain weird a few years ago that was set off by another friend having a hard time and me trying to be there for them, the friend's relationship was in strife and for some reason it set me off thinking about how, if it were me, I'd be flat out fucked and wouldn't find anyone else if my marriage broke down. I turned 40 this year and strangely I feel better about myself than I did a few years back. Maybe this isn't helpful at all. But I do think those feelings about ourselves aren't correspondent to the reality of our physical selves. Brains are fucking stupid. Brains on hormones, even more.

Hope you've been able to have a break from the constant thinking.

I do think the PMDD symptoms (I caught my sleeve on the dishwasher today. The rage…) are contributing, but I think it’s just the fact that my whole life has been rocked by this, and involves my beautiful (former) best friend. I’d never felt insecure around her before. I may not have Hollywood beauty like her but I’m kind, I am good company, I like to think I’m witty and, as I have now decided, I have brilliant eyebrows.

OP posts:
Totalfuckingshitshow · 27/04/2024 13:27

Quitelikeit · 27/04/2024 10:32

And yes ofc op can upend her life anytime she wants but it would be wise to do it based on a well thought out process

The way I’m framing it is that it isn’t me that’s upended my life.

OP posts:
Hippomumma2 · 27/04/2024 13:36

I wouldn’t end my marriage but I would never see this friend again. The fact that she was all chipper in the morning after trying to seduce your dh is nothing short of unforgivable. You need ground rules for hubby and don’t ever leave alone with a friend again.

betterangels · 27/04/2024 13:52

You need ground rules for hubby and don’t ever leave alone with a friend again.

But if you need rules amd precautions like this with your husband, why would you want him in the first place?

They both betrayed OP, the husband on more than this occasion, and the husband didn't come clean either.

upthehills1 · 27/04/2024 13:57

Hippomumma2 · 27/04/2024 13:36

I wouldn’t end my marriage but I would never see this friend again. The fact that she was all chipper in the morning after trying to seduce your dh is nothing short of unforgivable. You need ground rules for hubby and don’t ever leave alone with a friend again.

You wouldn’t end the marriage but you’d never trust the husband to be alone with a friend? 🤯

At what point would you suggest leaving a cheating husband?

InfiniteGoodVibes · 27/04/2024 14:06

Hippomumma2 · 27/04/2024 13:36

I wouldn’t end my marriage but I would never see this friend again. The fact that she was all chipper in the morning after trying to seduce your dh is nothing short of unforgivable. You need ground rules for hubby and don’t ever leave alone with a friend again.

The friend being chipper and bright is a punch in the gut but also shows who she is and OP absolutely should cut her dead.

You wouldn't end your marriage but this isn't the first time for @Totalfuckingshitshow, it was also in her home, with her longtime friend.

I don't believe there is any coming back from this. Having such small children will emotionally sway feelings for sure. However, this chump should have been scaling all manner of heights since it happened. He hasn't and I suspect he will hope it just all goes away with the drain water.

Dear Total, you deserve far far better. I think you know you do too. Take the time to process and make sure he respects your need for space. Having such a small baby will mean things are fraught with exhaustion, but do not let him railroad you. Time is needed for you to properly gather your thoughts. x

Totalfuckingshitshow · 27/04/2024 14:10

However, this chump should have been scaling all manner of heights since it happened. He hasn't and I suspect he will hope it just all goes away with the drain water.

You’re right @InfiniteGoodVibes, he is a chump. And I’m fairly sure he’s hoping this will just go away.

I have a feeling it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. For both of us.

I’m off to stay with my brilliant friend tonight without the children. Wine. I’m taking wine.

OP posts:
Thexwife · 27/04/2024 14:12

Lose the friend, she’s not the father of your kids. Don’t make rash decisions about your husband if it was just a kiss I wouldn’t end a marriage over that, anything more he’s out. Your main worry really is is your husband who you think he is. What was he crying over/ what was she crying over- then you can judge if he’s lying and made up an excuse. Definitely do the counselling but be wary of a partner that refuses to do something, fucks up and then says they’ll do it. Keep watching him and try and work out if he is the man you think he is or if he has been gaslighting you for years. If it was a one off mistake you can definitely get through this.

Sceptical123 · 27/04/2024 14:14

Totalfuckingshitshow · 27/04/2024 14:10

However, this chump should have been scaling all manner of heights since it happened. He hasn't and I suspect he will hope it just all goes away with the drain water.

You’re right @InfiniteGoodVibes, he is a chump. And I’m fairly sure he’s hoping this will just go away.

I have a feeling it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. For both of us.

I’m off to stay with my brilliant friend tonight without the children. Wine. I’m taking wine.

That sounds like a fantastic idea. I hope venting to your friend and talking it out with her helps a lot 🥂

JenniferBooth · 27/04/2024 14:43

Hippomumma2 · 27/04/2024 13:36

I wouldn’t end my marriage but I would never see this friend again. The fact that she was all chipper in the morning after trying to seduce your dh is nothing short of unforgivable. You need ground rules for hubby and don’t ever leave alone with a friend again.

Ground rules like this you mean.

This bloke is on his third chance. i couldnt live like this.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/emmerdale-star-amy-nuttalls-seven-32499377

Amy Nuttall's seven strict rules to save marriage to 'cheating' husband

Former Emmerdale actress Amy Nuttall and husband Andrew Buchan have reportedly made amends after he was said to have walked out their marriage for his co-star Leila Farzad

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/emmerdale-star-amy-nuttalls-seven-32499377

KittyCollar · 27/04/2024 14:45

@JenniferBooth No nor me. Third chance? So he can be all smug? Not a chance.

InfiniteGoodVibes · 27/04/2024 14:48

Totalfuckingshitshow · 27/04/2024 14:10

However, this chump should have been scaling all manner of heights since it happened. He hasn't and I suspect he will hope it just all goes away with the drain water.

You’re right @InfiniteGoodVibes, he is a chump. And I’m fairly sure he’s hoping this will just go away.

I have a feeling it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. For both of us.

I’m off to stay with my brilliant friend tonight without the children. Wine. I’m taking wine.

Wishing you a lovely and much needed time out lovely.

I know the cheating script, with a baby too.

We must never ignore our gut. x

JenniferBooth · 27/04/2024 14:51

Have a lovely evening @Totalfuckingshitshow 😊

beanii · 27/04/2024 16:02

OP the thing I wouldn't forgive is, if the video evidence wasn't there you'd be none the wiser as he'd have lied his way out of it.

Don't be so forgiving.

Better to separate whilst kids are young., you're already living separately before this.

BirthdayRainbow · 27/04/2024 16:06

I think it needs pointing out, when you marry someone that is their first chance. When they cheat that's their SECOND chance gone. So no way should there be a third one.

MsDogLady · 27/04/2024 18:26

Stress, both lost their mums a year or two ago (this was told to me in a way that suggested I was morally obliged to forgive).

At first he said, though retracted this and apologised, that I was only entitled to his comfort if he was able to remain my husband.

@Totalfuckingshitshow, both of these comments show deeply manipulative intent, as do his initial lying and current self-flagellation. They are all emotionally abusive tactics that a truly remorseful man committed to your healing would not engage in. Put together with his infidelities, previous destructive behaviors, and the fact that he is not currently moving mountains, I would call it a day. You are at great risk for moving forward in a ‘false reconciliation.’

I suggest that you check out the survivinginfidelity site for excellent resources and level advice from wise posters who have been in your shoes. Start with their Just Found Out forum.

Nosygirl01 · 27/04/2024 18:53

Foronetimeonly · 22/04/2024 23:00

I’ve name changed for this as am so ashamed.
After way too many drinks I ended up in a compromising situation with my best friend from schools husband, we were in our 40s at the time.
There was nothing wrong in my relationship or theirs but drink lots of drink and heavy conversation eased the situation.
My friend knows has confronted me I explained what I could remember and begged forgiveness.

She has never told my husband and we are still good friends 15 years on, holiday together spend lots of time together with and without partners.

What a complete fool you are making of your husband. Everyone he spends time with knowing what you did and he has no clue! Horrific

Nosygirl01 · 27/04/2024 19:10

Op, I’ve been there. It’s horrendous but I think the fact that your first reaction isn’t that you can save your marriage and make it work says a lot. My child was a baby when dad did this to me. We already had issues but cheating is where I draw the line. I dealt with it by giving him a timeline of my needs and wants to show his commitment. We got to that date and my heart wasn’t in it. He’d killed everything I thought we had and I couldn’t trust him or anything he said. I told him that was it for me. Everyone we knew blamed me for taking his child away, he was a doting dad, I’d destroyed him. Not one of em asked if I was ok, what my side of the story was. One of his friends showed me proof he’d never stopped seeing the other person. I shared the proof online and shared the truth with everyone and my god did it feel good! It was the closure I needed. He’s had multiple partners since and I could write down exactly what will happen as it’s so predictable. In this situation there is no right and wrong. It’s survival. It’s also time to be selfish. Think about yourself and what you want and need and only then can you make a sound decision. Being apart made me a better parent, a better partner to the man I’m with now, it made me a stronger person as my standards are higher and i know what my limits are. I also know I can survive the many dark and trying times I’ve been through and that’s powerful to your mental health. Good luck OP!

Mmhmmn · 28/04/2024 00:30

I do think this is also a distinct possibility. I’ve known a few people like that - a tiny minority of friends over time. The betrayal they’re capable of is absolutely breathtaking, as OP found out. And it says a lot about a void they’re trying to fill and never will.

“LTB.... but your friend could just be one of those women that likes to have what others have just because she can”

Mom2K · 28/04/2024 01:34

I'm really surprised at people saying they wouldn't end their marriage over it. Have they missed that this is not his first offense?

More than once is not a mistake - it's a pretty significant character flaw. He will do it again. There is no longer any possibility for trust in this relationship...and why would anyone want to live like that?

I couldn't.