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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
ShinyPebble32 · 27/04/2024 07:10

OP, I’m so sorry you’re going through all of this. What a terrible betrayal they have both inflicted on you, in your own home, while you slept.
They should never have stayed up drinking together when you went to bed anyway - that’s completely inappropriate. All the ‘cool wives’ on recent threads, THIS is why you need appropriate boundaries in friendships with the opposite sex when you are in relationships, women are not paranoid or controlling when they have reservations about their husbands connections with other women, because this is how easily things can happen when you throw alcohol and mid life crises and whatever else into the mix.

OP, please don’t try and face this alone - please lean on your family and other trusted friends for support, don’t think that you have to keep this a secret to save these two arseholes blushes - no fucking way. This ‘friend’ has broken your trust in the most despicable way - don’t give her another moment of your time. Don’t need to feel like you need to make decisions about your marriage and family immediately, just allow yourself time to reel from the shock and feel your feelings first, then you can start to make plans when you are ready. But please don’t let them minimise this, or make you doubt your anger and hurt. What they have both done to you is the ultimate betrayal of trust. Massive hugs to you ❤️

MegCleary · 27/04/2024 07:44

Well for me the beginning of the end is when you go to bed as it’s your turn to get up in the morning! Feck that! Your friend is visiting, you get to stay drinking and chill and have the lie in next day. Turn bollocks. He’s a selfish prat from the off.

Zonder · 27/04/2024 08:16

I don't have anything to add other than you are doing an amazing job. You're managing your children and household in such a stressful situation. I hope you can do something really nice with your children break when you get back.

upthehills1 · 27/04/2024 09:05

I know this is excruciating for you. It’s like a physical pain. I remember subjecting myself to it over and over again by re-reading things and going over the same stories.

Some will say don’t give up on him, you can work it out etc. This is not my experience. My ex cheated, it was excruciating, he knew it was. Ultimately he is a good person in every other aspect. He ‘said and did all the right things’…. counselling, access/passwords to all devices, enabling me to track him.

I couldn’t live like that and began to trust him again. So I wasn’t monitoring him at all and accepted it was a ‘blip’. And guess what…. A short 18 months later he did it again.

So I may be cynical in my view… The way you describe the CCTV footage doesn’t strike me as the first encounter. If you watch it and think the same, don’t ignore that gut feeling. You’re probably right. They might gaslight you, give you all kinds of explanations, but you’ll know deep down and you should t ignore that feeling.

ADRV · 27/04/2024 09:10

She is not your friend and by the sounds of it, has low self esteem which means she constantly seeks male attention - even if said males are married etc. I would personally never speak to her again.
Husband - yes, he cheated for a moment but if you think your marriage can survive this, then you guys should try.

Auldmum · 27/04/2024 09:11

This is excruciating i am so so sorry. I’ve had something similar altho not best friend. We stayed together and it has been a lot of work and extremely difficult. Keep your distance, keep your stance and give yourself time. Don’t doubt though if you do stay it’s one of the hardest things to do. Eventually the doubt and pain dissipates. I don’t think I have the same love but it is love… just more love for myself too. The limbo, vulnerability, confusion and hot anger goes but I remember it well and it takes over. Don’t let it - focus on you and your kids and def get therapy for you and both of you. It’s DEF cheating. Is he suggesting it isn’t? He doesn’t get to define cheating. You are the one that has been cheated on - and cheated out of a respectful caring loving husband and friend. Ask to see his phone. Have they messaged before or after? Actions talk louder than words -his words don’t mean much. If he’s messaged, if he’s not arranging the therapy, if he’s not opening his phone, if he’s not reassuring you by telling you where he is and what he’s doing -then he’s not cherishing your heart after it has been damaged. Huge hug. X

purplehair1 · 27/04/2024 09:26

This is what you saw. It sounds like much more has happened previously if she felt confident enough to go and put her arms around him. Feels like this wasn’t the first time.

anyolddinosaur · 27/04/2024 09:43

There were problems in your marriage but instead of trying to work on them he took the easy route of satisfying those needs elsewhere. He will do that again. You would always need to be alert about having women in your home when you are not present.

Personally I wouldnt dash to end a marriage over an emotional affair when you have children of 3 and a few months. Being a single parent is hard and my focus would be on my children. I wouldnt be having any more children with him and I'd rethink what I wanted once the youngest was in nursery and then school. The previous cheating makes a big difference though as I'd probably have kicked him out then. The "friend" could, regretfully, never be trusted again.

Dont dash into decisions, especially at a time when your health may cause you to be depressed. (I hope the alternative therapies help). If he wants you to be "over it" before you are ready it takes the decision for you, he's out.

Sceptical123 · 27/04/2024 09:43

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 16:41

I’ve ended the friendship and asked that she respect I don’t wish to speak with her about it. She sent me a load of manipulative bollocks by text.

The third friend has, not at my instigation, also severed the friendship.

Probably out of loyalty to you, disgust at this woman’s behaviour and self-preservation that the same thing doesn’t happen to her. Sensible person. I’m sure the other friend will bitterly regret her actions, but only due to what she’s lost, not for betraying you. Also her loss of easy access to your husband and the ego boosts she got flirting with the OH of a woman she was clearly jealous of due to the state of her own relationship. Doing this to you in your own home with a new baby. Gross. The only positive thing is it may be the only time it’s happened if you only noticed her behaviour being off this time, but who knows. What a disloyal, weak hypocritical man.

Volpini · 27/04/2024 09:50

Hello OP
So much kind and clear advice and insight in here, I don’t have much to add other than to say that your strength and clearheadedness and emotional clarity shine through in all your posts.
I know you are in pain and anguish, and I am so sorry for this pain when you have only recently given birth (so much to say about that) but you seem like nobody’s fool. Whatever the eventual outcome, I can tell from your posts that you are resilient and astonishingly clear sighted enough about your own situation that you are going to be ok.
Let go of the concept of a “right” or “wrong” decision. There is only the now and how you feel - we can never know what the other choice would have brought, so all we can do is follow our instincts and - given what you uncovered through instinct - you are very in tune with yours. I hope you are continuing with your personal therapy as it sounds like a gift (if that doesn’t sound odd) that this has blown up whilst you have a therapist.
I get the sense from your posts that you do already know what you will do, but perhaps not quite ready to take that action or even articulate that - and that is ok too. This is your life, there’s no rulebook, you get to say what is or isn’t right for you and in your own timeframe. YOU get to decide whether or not you are being unreasonable. Not the husband, not the family, not friends, not mumsnet. You. Because you are the one who has to live with the consequences of staying in a marriage and working through this, or deciding that it’s not going to work for you.
Finally, you are an absolute Queen, how you are handling this. You have my absolute respect. I wish you and the kids an absolutely wonderful future. I promise you there is one still awaiting you because you sound brilliant.
Lots of love.

Quitelikeit · 27/04/2024 09:56

You still won’t say how much he had to drink?!?!

It is relevant……

Dont get too sucked in to this thread when people are telling you to quit your Whole life over a drunken snog!

I mean he could just walk away and tell everyone his marriage ended over a drunken kiss.

You haven’t said if you believe he has a long crush on her?

LuckySantangelo35 · 27/04/2024 10:07

MegCleary · 27/04/2024 07:44

Well for me the beginning of the end is when you go to bed as it’s your turn to get up in the morning! Feck that! Your friend is visiting, you get to stay drinking and chill and have the lie in next day. Turn bollocks. He’s a selfish prat from the off.

Exactly!!!

LuckySantangelo35 · 27/04/2024 10:08

Quitelikeit · 27/04/2024 09:56

You still won’t say how much he had to drink?!?!

It is relevant……

Dont get too sucked in to this thread when people are telling you to quit your Whole life over a drunken snog!

I mean he could just walk away and tell everyone his marriage ended over a drunken kiss.

You haven’t said if you believe he has a long crush on her?

@Quitelikeit

”I mean he could just walk away and tell everyone his marriage ended over a drunken kiss.”

so what if he does?? It’ll be him who looks the dickhead, not OP

SoreAndTired1 · 27/04/2024 10:13

Quitelikeit · 27/04/2024 09:56

You still won’t say how much he had to drink?!?!

It is relevant……

Dont get too sucked in to this thread when people are telling you to quit your Whole life over a drunken snog!

I mean he could just walk away and tell everyone his marriage ended over a drunken kiss.

You haven’t said if you believe he has a long crush on her?

@Quitelikeit What is 'relevant' is that he has cheated on her BEFORE! So this is the SECOND TIME. Alcohol is not relevant here when it's the second time/he had an affair before. You obviously didn't read all her posts.

LuckySantangelo35 · 27/04/2024 10:22

SoreAndTired1 · 27/04/2024 03:20

@TheMerryHiker @sesquipedalian If you had read all of OP's posts on this thread, you'd know that he had cheated on her before. So this is the second time.

@TheMerryHiker

nah, Op doesn’t have to do anything

Quitelikeit · 27/04/2024 10:30

She said that was at the beginning of their relationship but that could mean they weren’t in a proper relationship - that he was dating a few people at once blah blah

Quitelikeit · 27/04/2024 10:32

And yes ofc op can upend her life anytime she wants but it would be wise to do it based on a well thought out process

Maelil01 · 27/04/2024 10:42

SoreAndTired1 · 27/04/2024 03:21

@Maelil01 If you had read all of OP's posts on this thread, before replying, you'd know that he had cheated on her before. So this is the second time he has cheated.

How many chances does he get?

Fair enough.
In that case she shouldn’t even be asking !

Grumblevision · 27/04/2024 11:24

Hello OP. I had a thought re the eyebrows (well kind of) - does that sort of thing happen during the PMDD? Are you able to keep tabs on symptoms that crop up, even if they seem unrelated? I'm having some perimeno suspicions and chatting to similar age family members, they've mentioned things that I didn't even think to include in my tab keeping but that have eased for them with hormones. I don't doubt that this stuff happens as a result of major events, I just wondered whether the two combined are doing an extra major number on you and whether it's helpful to try and unweave the different facets... Maybe as you come out of it and start to feel human again. I had a strange brain weird a few years ago that was set off by another friend having a hard time and me trying to be there for them, the friend's relationship was in strife and for some reason it set me off thinking about how, if it were me, I'd be flat out fucked and wouldn't find anyone else if my marriage broke down. I turned 40 this year and strangely I feel better about myself than I did a few years back. Maybe this isn't helpful at all. But I do think those feelings about ourselves aren't correspondent to the reality of our physical selves. Brains are fucking stupid. Brains on hormones, even more.

Hope you've been able to have a break from the constant thinking.

Sureaseggs44 · 27/04/2024 11:32

I just wanted to say something . Many years ago we had two very close friends . I won’t go into detail but in a similar drunken situation I walked in in my boyfriend at the time doing something even worse . After a lot of anguish I forgave him and we went on to marry and have children and as far as I know he has never cheated since . But your post bought it all flooding back and the picture in my mind and the dreadful sick feeling in the pit of your stomach . It’s like it’s always there deep in your subconscious. I think you could possibly rescue your relationship and you may even have a happy marriage and improve communication, but it will sadly never be the same again . I don’t regret forgiving him but it like acknowledging that perfect relationship has been forever tarnished . But do perfect relationships even exist ?

Picklelily99 · 27/04/2024 11:58

Re-reading your initial post, I realised that what you saw was on EXTERNAL cctv, at the END of the night? So this was outside, after they had been in the house together for a considerable time? I am so sorry but my mind is working overtime here; it looks to me like the final kiss goodbye after an intimate time has been had inside.

TenseElongatedRightFinger · 27/04/2024 12:15

"I am almost rigid with fear about it being glossed over and nothing changing and me finding myself just back in the relationship..."

I understand this fear completely, I could have wrote this quote myself when H and I were separated. He had to live with me for almost a year, he was always there, in my face and space, I couldn't get away from him. What you are feeling is the pressure he is covertly putting on you. Listen to your instinct. It sounds like things have always been in his terms, he has been minimising and refusing to acknowledge you for 8 years and his attempts to make amends sound superficial and are really still on his terms. Be wary of entering into counselling together because it's not suitable for all couples, in particular couples where equality isn't at the heart of the relationship.

Edited to add: If you have a health visitor reach out to her about the stress you are under. Get a benefit check independent of your H to see what you are entitled to, check Child Maintenance calculator to see what he'd be due to pay. Make copies of any paperwork pertaining to his income, pensions, savings, bank account etc in case things become less amicable and they are needed by you at a later date.

upthehills1 · 27/04/2024 12:21

Quitelikeit · 27/04/2024 10:30

She said that was at the beginning of their relationship but that could mean they weren’t in a proper relationship - that he was dating a few people at once blah blah

Sounds like the words of a cheat 🥱

Trictactosa · 27/04/2024 12:26

Totalfuckingshitshow · 26/04/2024 22:58

I’m up watching tv. The kids are soundo. I feel so flat and….meh. But glad not to have to think about things as much.

I’ve had a crisis of confidence which is the shitty side-effect no-one in this position wants or needs. I expect it’s normal to feel hideous, useless, a failure and like you brought it on yourself, and I’ll work through that in time. I’m hoping the resolution of that will herald the arrival of Anger. Fucking annoying though. Got weirdly preoccupied with the state of my eyebrows earlier. 🤷‍♀️

@Totalfuckingshitshow

What a thing to have to deal with.

You are doing SO, so well.

If you want some little self-care tasks to get on with, how about:

  • D3 Better You spray is often handy for anxiety and PMDD.
  • ditto Iron, multi Magnesium, and a general good multivitamin. Victoria Health is a good place to look
  • a bloods check, as we can be depleted at any time, and who needs yet another reason to feel crap.
  • log the PMDD with GP: peri can come with mega lows & highs, and there may be things (hrt/minipill/free counselling!) that would help, at some point)
  • little haircut & blow-dry
  • buy yourself some ace trainers and nice jumper, little uniform to pick you up & get you through
  • ask a friend for easy podcasts to give your brain a break
  • a good massage

Its gonna feel real shit. Additionally with hormones in the mix. But there WILL be little highs as well as lows. And the lows WILL pass. You can get through this.

You are doing SO so well.

What a shitter.

Haretodayswantomorrow · 27/04/2024 12:33

Personally I wouldn’t be logging PMDD or anything of sort with the GP because then he has ammunition against you that you are ‘mental’ and it’s all in your head, how it wasn’t anything like what you’ve ’made It out to be’ that’s your illness making you paranoid and histrionic.

I had a friend who had enough of her husbands behaviour, tried to leave and he tried to convince everyone (including her Gp) she was clearly mental and use that as a cover for his shit behaviour and to try and take the kids away from her.

I'm not saying this to scare you but because I’ve seen the impact a man can have by convincing everyone around you and them you are clearly unhinged and they are the poor victim trying to help you think clearly.