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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
HesterPrincess · 26/04/2024 20:29

I'm furious on your behalf that he's put you through such with a tiny baby. How bloody dare they both do this, in fact. Neither of them deserve your forgiveness.

I'm so sorry that your own home doesn't feel like the safe space it used to.

Jiski · 26/04/2024 20:46

I’m sorry you won’t want to hear this but you have to let go. You will never forget or get over this. Also the way you describe the video they’ve done this before.

TheMerryHiker · 26/04/2024 20:53

JenniferBooth · 26/04/2024 18:45

And this is just one of the reasons i am child free by choice. Become a mother and get told to put up and shut up.

Sorry I didn't mean to say OP should put up with her husband only because of baby. My personal opinion if they had happy relationship before this incident, she could try to save it. Any building or relationship take ages to build, take seconds to break. Its her individual choice what she would like to do. I only suggested what I felt as I believe into make rather than break. I don't mean to tell anyone what to do.

Maelil01 · 26/04/2024 21:02

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:52

This was my instantaneous feeling. I don’t know if it’s knee-jerk or impractical. And it somehow doesn’t feel right to ditch one and not the other. Ugh.

Surely it’s worth making an effort. No one is perfect and you’ve children who deserve that both of you try.

Volpini · 26/04/2024 21:31

BoobBounce · 22/04/2024 11:39

If my DH did this I’d absolutely rip his balls off, but I wouldn’t end it straight away. If he’d slept with her I would. What’s important here is what YOU want. If he’s prepared to make it up to you, and some, including counselling, I’d give it a try.

WRT your friend. Hmm, with friends like this who needs enemies. I would rip her head off, and make sure everyone knew she likes to daly with her friends husband and family. Not blaming her more, they are both equally to blame.

She’s beautiful and clever, and thinks she can have any man? No, she’s actually immature, vain and selfish, with no regard for the security of your DC. If she can have any man, why hasn’t she got one then?

My question to you is, is this the first time? What about other visits. It seems like they know each other a bit more than you thought. You need to get all the info before you proceed.

I’d tell your DH you want full disclosure now, and if you find out any more info, that’s he’s lying, he’s out the door immediately. Also ask your other friend if she’s heard anything about your DH and family destroyer.

Absolutely all of this.

Cetim · 26/04/2024 21:51

Bless.you. Reading this made me feel so sad and angry. Your friend sounds like a b*&!#. Cut her off and never ever look back. Yes we shouldn't blame the women but she doesn't sound like a good friend nor even a good person. She came over the next day early in a better mood?? She should've been crying herself to sleep with guilt and too depressed to get out of bed and terrified about how you would react when she did the right thing to tell you. Instead she was in a good mood at the prospect of potentially ruining someone's marriage and then tried to manipulate you?? She sounds awful and toxic and needs to be completely cut off from your life.

Husband sounded a bit more remorseful probably because he has realised he could lose the best thing that ever happened to him for some cheap thrill moment. Is he a good husband in general? Is he honest? Good dad? Is the relationship healthy? Has he ever done anything like this before? Is he telling the truth about the crying thing? It boils down to how you feel. If you love him and want to make it work, then don't let tour pride or other people's opinions get in the way. On the other hand if this has changed your feelings for him and you no longer want to be with him them don't anyone convince you to stay just because you're married if that makes sense.

Good luck and take care x

JenniferBooth · 26/04/2024 21:59

@TheMerryHiker sorry i was probably a bit blunt. I was brought up hearing misogynistic phrases like "its the woman who holds a marriage/family together" so my hackles rise when i hear something similar or something perceived to be similar.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 26/04/2024 22:12

ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees · 23/04/2024 20:20

@Totalfuckingshitshow not the point of your thread but re the PMDD. Have you tried the following as I found it a massive help.
Starflower oil capsules, B6 and Folic acid. Give it two weeks and it will make a huge difference. Starflower gives me mild headaches so I don't take it all the time but even just the others will help balance things out.

To be honest, I tried everything including this for my PMDD, and it made not a jot of difference whatsoever. But to say it will not work for you OP.

I did also find out in my late 30s that I had an underactive thyroid which can mimic symptoms of PMS.

I saw private doctors and most were rubbish over the years. Some experts tried to help me, I was told if I had DC this would cure me. I haven’t had DC anyway but was pregnant twice.

I had doctors try to put me on anti depressants which I certainly didn’t want, having had them as a tewnager. It’s only since I’ve been through the menopause have I felt some semblance of normality.

If it were now, I’d go to a doctor preferably female to do with hormones and PMDD and hopefully things have come on a bit since my time. In the end I’m ashamed to say as I’d suffered with it since puberty/teens I gave up.

BirthdayRainbow · 26/04/2024 22:13

TheMerryHiker · 26/04/2024 20:53

Sorry I didn't mean to say OP should put up with her husband only because of baby. My personal opinion if they had happy relationship before this incident, she could try to save it. Any building or relationship take ages to build, take seconds to break. Its her individual choice what she would like to do. I only suggested what I felt as I believe into make rather than break. I don't mean to tell anyone what to do.

HE should be the one trying to save the marriage ! Why should @Totalfuckingshitshow try and save something she didn't try and throw away?

DaringlyDizzy · 26/04/2024 22:19

How are things?

Sade49 · 26/04/2024 22:31

This is absolutely inappropriate and you weren't even considered before or during those 6 minutes. He has the nerve to be twitchy when you're out with her but yet does that with her, whilst you're not around. I think I'd be asking if this was the first time... which I'm not sure you'd ever get the answer to 😞

You deserve better than this from both parts. I'm not sure I would stay up drinking with my friends husband after she went to bed, or stay up with my partners friend whilst they went to bed?

Despite having a young family, it's not always the answer to stay for that. They are both at fault and therefore, both have consequences.

I'm so sorry you're going through such a shitty time. You deserve as much respect as you give and solid friendships ❤️

Totalfuckingshitshow · 26/04/2024 22:58

DaringlyDizzy · 26/04/2024 22:19

How are things?

I’m up watching tv. The kids are soundo. I feel so flat and….meh. But glad not to have to think about things as much.

I’ve had a crisis of confidence which is the shitty side-effect no-one in this position wants or needs. I expect it’s normal to feel hideous, useless, a failure and like you brought it on yourself, and I’ll work through that in time. I’m hoping the resolution of that will herald the arrival of Anger. Fucking annoying though. Got weirdly preoccupied with the state of my eyebrows earlier. 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
JenniferBooth · 26/04/2024 23:11

@Totalfuckingshitshow what he did has NOTHING to do with what you look like. Nothing at all and im sure you look great.

Mumof3confused · 26/04/2024 23:26
  1. He struggles to communicate to the point you need couples counselling but he cried on her shoulder (and then kissed her). Huge betrayal emotionally and physically.
  2. It’s up to him to fix this. Book the therapy. Stop drinking. Whatever. Just tell him ‘you decide what you want to do’. Use it as a test.
  3. Is it possible it’s happened before?
  4. I can see why she looks for male attention if her partner ignores her (not an excuse for betraying you in your home).
  5. Were they very drunk? Again, no excuse but it could explain the intensity.
  6. He cheated early on would make me inclined to say one more strike and he’s out! He kept this from you, too? How did you find out?
  7. When I was unsure about my marriage I had counselling on my own and we had couples counselling. The counselling for me was extremely useful. The couples counselling was eye opening. My ex’s inability to engage and take responsibility for his actions made it clear to me I was much better off without him.

You sound like a wonderful and kind mum, partner and friend. I’m sorry you are having to go through this.

Mumtobabyhavoc · 27/04/2024 00:30

I keep returning to this thread because I can't get over it happening in your own home, while you were there and with cctv. I believe it was mentioned you have gone through this before with him. I guess I'd have to end it @Totalfuckingshitshow
It's too much to come back from:
You'll likely never forget.
Your self esteem will always be precarious.
He'll get a clear conscious from your forgiveness.
He'll likely do it again.
He has likely been doing other things detrimental to the relationship before this.

Sorry, OP. Respect is too significant. Without it there's nothing to build on. He might love you, might, but he does not respect you. Respect yourself.

Jewel52 · 27/04/2024 00:38

Fingeronthebutton · 22/04/2024 15:07

He was drunk, it happens.

OP. It will be tough but you and your husband can get through it.

History of cheating and this time And it happened with her best friend. So your idea is that she should suck that up? And you actually believe they’ll get over that and live happily ever after? Bar low in your world

Southern68 · 27/04/2024 00:46

@Totalfuckingshitshow
Hoping you've managed to relax a little while you're away and gain a little clarity.
All you're feeling is valid and part of the process of unpacking it. I'm not excusing or defending your other half, but think very carefully before making a decision either way.
Someone once said to me when my first husband left me (we were apart for a year), don't be afraid to make your own decisions, don't be swayed by others and if you decide to make a go of it don't let others make you feel bad about it. I gave my husband a second chance, we were together a further 5 years before I divorced him without any regret, knowing I'd given it a good go.
Sending positive thoughts and a hug 😊

anotherside · 27/04/2024 00:56

If my DH did this I’d absolutely rip his balls off, but I wouldn’t end it straight away. If he’d slept with her I would. What’s important here is what YOU want. If he’s prepared to make it up to you, and some, including counselling, I’d give it a try.

Why bother? The other person has made it clear that
A) they have strong feelings for another person - not just fantasising about a random friend of a friend either, but actually real life someone they know well
B) they have no boundaries on actually acting on those feelings - even in the family home where is young children are asleep.

OP says she’s looking for “actions”. Well he’s already provided them. Or does she want to see more “actions” a year or two or three down the road (after a few token counselling sessions).

IMO better to have a good chat, and have an amicable split on half-decent terms and you both focus 100% on the children. As for the “friend”, she can go in the bin I think.

kkloo · 27/04/2024 01:33

Those who asked about my previous attempts to get therapy, I first tried about eight years ago. We have had a lot of stresses over the years and our communication has always been shit. I’ve wanted to do it for such a long time. I’m just so pissed off that we’re only going into it now because he’s fucked up. Majorly.

I bet your communication is just fine. You sound well able to articulate yourself.

I wouldn't be able to stay with him but if I did I wouldn't be going to counselling with him.
Why do you need to go for him to learn how to communicate? He should be the one who goes and does the work. As I said, I wouldn't stay, but I know if I did then I would completely resent having to sit in a room with another person mediating, babying him and pandering to him just so that my partner could learn how to communicate with me even though I can communicate fine.
Whatever his communication issues are he should go off and learn how to fix them himself, stop stonewalling, stop himself from being defensive or whatever his problem is.

SoreAndTired1 · 27/04/2024 03:20

TheMerryHiker · 26/04/2024 20:53

Sorry I didn't mean to say OP should put up with her husband only because of baby. My personal opinion if they had happy relationship before this incident, she could try to save it. Any building or relationship take ages to build, take seconds to break. Its her individual choice what she would like to do. I only suggested what I felt as I believe into make rather than break. I don't mean to tell anyone what to do.

@TheMerryHiker @sesquipedalian If you had read all of OP's posts on this thread, you'd know that he had cheated on her before. So this is the second time.

SoreAndTired1 · 27/04/2024 03:21

Maelil01 · 26/04/2024 21:02

Surely it’s worth making an effort. No one is perfect and you’ve children who deserve that both of you try.

@Maelil01 If you had read all of OP's posts on this thread, before replying, you'd know that he had cheated on her before. So this is the second time he has cheated.

How many chances does he get?

MsDogLady · 27/04/2024 04:08

Totalfuckingshitshow · 25/04/2024 06:38

The idea of him seeking individual therapy is an interesting one. He has done previously, at my heed, because he was being self-destructive and was very hard to live with. I will suggest it again. Thanks for the post @MsDogLady

So he damaged your marriage and abused you via his previous cheating and self-destructive, ‘hard to get along with’ behavior. And now he has again inflicted damage by engaging in an intensely intimate episode with your best friend, in your home. He deemed becoming that pathetic cliche to be worth humiliating you for.

@Totalfuckingshitshow, it sounds like H learned nothing from his previous therapy. Depending on his motivation level and the duration of the counseling, he should have learned positive coping strategies to counteract his
self-indulgent destructive tendencies that were sabotaging your marriage and hurting you both. It’s mind-boggling that, after perpetrating so much damage and then agreeing to your recovery requirements, he has again crossed boundaries and engaged in infidelity. His pattern is continuing.

Without true remorse and self-led motivation, both IC and CC will be futile. I still believe that IC [with a new therapist] should occur way before any CC, as H has much to examine regarding his character flaws that have had
far-reaching ramifications in your marriage. Despite his crocodile tears and hair shirt [which will function to keep him mired in quicksand], his deficiencies are still present and have been for many years. These cannot be wished away and need to be investigated in IC. The marriage is not responsible for his decision to cheat. If he is still keeping secrets, both IC and CC sessions will be a charade.

‘Hideous, useless, failure, brought it on yourself’?? None of the above! You are a strong and fabulous woman who faced these two rats with the truth as they sniveled and lied. You are a wonderful role model for your children, which cannot be said for your H. This is ALL on him and his unethical, sabotaging choices and his need for external illicit gratification.

Dineasair · 27/04/2024 04:09

ridingfreely · 22/04/2024 12:41

What the heck is DARVO
I have the abbreviations when I can't guess them

this Is awful, I agree with the posters who say that they think this isn’t a one off, not with such intimacy. This is an established relationship. I would definitely keep the video to stop yourself from being gaslit into believing that you didn’t see what you saw.

GlitterBall91 · 27/04/2024 06:21

For me, personally, it would be over. The trust would be gone, I’d be forever second guessing!

It’s all well and good him saying that he will make all these changes and make all this effort now that you have found out about the kiss but what would have been best would have been for him to, I don’t know.. not kiss your best friend in the first place ????
(sarcasm aimed at him not you!).

Also he tried to deny the kiss at first; he only admitted it after you had proof. What else is he hiding? I so agree with the poster who said that he didn’t like you going out with this friend because he is worried about what else she would let slip!

I’m sorry this is happening, you deserve more !

Chimen · 27/04/2024 07:05

What are the chances of kissing for the first time and get caught on camera?

Realistically that’s impossible!

He is still lying to you.