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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
BirthdayRainbow · 25/04/2024 19:23

You absolutely deserve better.

When my h had an affair I was still the product of my abusive and neglectful childhood and felt unable to leave. When he then said something so cruel and deeply cutting it was over for me. I still tried for another few months due to other stuff happening but there was no coming back from that. And it wasn't even about not giving him a second chance. If we'd been blissful and he said that it would have been over.

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 25/04/2024 19:32

@Totalfuckingshitshow firstly let me say how much I admire your strength and clear thinking at such a hard time and so I say this tentatively. Whilst I am quite sure that logistically, financially and even emotionally its less impacting for him to live in another part of the house, I wonder if he would find his initiative if he had to leave properly, for a time. Just space for you to both think about what or who you're fighting for. From what I have read, my opinion is that he doesn't deserve you as it stands. That's not to say he couldn't become deserving but, if it was me, I'd consider 'forcing a crisis' so to speak, given that the situation remains largely unchanged. It would require further bravery from you but it would give you more answers as to where his heart is truly at.

It is clear you will find your way through and I wish you strength.

NotABeliever · 25/04/2024 20:28

OP I also admire your strength and determination to be fair in spite of these challenging circumstances. One thing that comes to mind is how likely is it that this was their first kiss? It sounds more like a melancholic goodbye kiss than a first kiss from how you've described it. I might be completely wrong and the last thing i want is to make you doubt the circumstances more but if I were you I would dig more and get to the bottom of this relationship between those two.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 25/04/2024 21:01

I have spoken with him today regarding whether it was the first time. Posters on here had given me some clear questions that I wanted answering.

He maintains it was the first time, it was an opportunistic lapse in judgement and he can’t explain why it’s happened beyond alcohol. He is very upset, very shamefaced and very desperate to do whatever I want to fix it. As you’d expect a cornered man to be.

I’m struggling to believe much of what he says after he lied to me, so I don’t know how to feel. My lovely other friend is amazing and has given me some additional thoughts. She has the video and has watched it a few more times. I’ve also told a couple of close friends so I can have some support. I actually advised him to do the same. He has done it but he admitted he didn’t want people to know what a twat he is.

I think the acceptance that nothing is going to be clear for a while, and I am going to be up and down like a frog in a lift for the foreseeable, is one of the hardest things to accept. I’ll see how therapy goes (start middle of next week). I’ve also told him to go back to his therapist. If he doesn’t bother, that’ll be telling.

I think the impetus he has to fix us is going to wane. I just have a feeling. And I don’t want to be the one doing anything to drive a fix after a PP’s cautionary tale.

OP posts:
LuckySantangelo35 · 25/04/2024 21:04

TheMerryHiker · 25/04/2024 19:15

I agree with you. Both of you try to sort things out. You are a family. It's not like things you use and throw when broken. Every one make mistakes, no one is perfect. Be strong. Think positive. Best of luck.

@TheMerryHiker

have you missed the bit about how this fool has cheated on OP TWICE?!

She doesn’t have to give him the time of day, never mind stay married to him.

BirthdayRainbow · 25/04/2024 21:09

I'm still pissed off that I did more to fix us than he did. He's busy playing the victim now. I'm doing everything but it is better than lying in bed next to someone who is a pathetic cheat and liar.

Ilovelurchers · 25/04/2024 21:15

OP, I haven't had time to read everything - really sorry - have tried to read all of your posts, at least. So sorry for your troubles.

I just wanted to say that I have, in the past, done much worse than this under the influence of alcohol. Not cheating physically in my case, but wildly inappropriate texting, and other awful things. Things I would never have DREAMT of doing sober I have done. I'm actually a really kind and good person sober, I think. I didn't drink every day - I could go weeks and months without drinking - so I wouldn't fit most people's preconception of someone with a drink problem. But I drank to excess on occasion, and did wild, disinhibited and awful things when drunk.

Drink in my opinion makes monsters of men. And women.

My husband and my family and friends have all forgiven me for what I have done because I tried, and eventually succeeded, to become sober.

I can't say 100% I will never take a drink again - I will try my hardest not to - and I certainly never intend to go back to regular drinking - when I look back at the havoc it wrought in my life, I think I would rather be dead.

In your shoes, I would only consider forgiving my husband if he takes steps to quit drinking. But you may (as my wonderful husband has done) need to join him in sobriety. You have to decide if the relationship is worth that - which ultimately higes on how much love you have left for him.

There is no right or wrong choice here - but if he keeps drinking like this it will happen again.

Good luck.

Poppalina37 · 25/04/2024 22:39

Right, I ditched my ex-husband and sister 😵 over something similar.... it still makes me feel pig sick now....

But, I've ended up raising our 4 children more or less alone because he just couldn't cope with us splitting up.

That was 14 years ago....despite everything, we are still very fond of each other.... I don't know why I couldn't find it in my heart to forgive him..... parts of me wish I got support/counselling. It's definitely over now but that's more because of how I feel.... like what was the point of us separating and him missing all of the years with our children to just undo that now that they are older ☹️.

I know lots of people say LTB.... but your friend could just be one of those women that likes to have what others have just because she can... it's some weird empowerment vibe and men are just fickle at times... I'm not saying what he's done isn't bad.... it is.... but we all can get lazy and complacent in relationships.... after a few drinks he probably felt flattered that another beautiful woman wanted him.... even if it was just for 6 minutes.

You are married to this man.... in your heart you must know whether this is just a massive mistake and poor judgement on his part or whether this is how your husband acts...

I married the love of my life but in my heart I knew my sister was one of many.... he just thought I'd forgive it.... only you know. X

chuckyegg85 · 25/04/2024 22:46

OP all I can say is that my heart absolutely breaks for you reading this. Unfortunately I have been in a similar situation and have seen things I wish I hadn't and I understand all too well that physically ill feeling/throwing up you describe
If you need someone to talk to please reach out because I know exactly what you're going through right now

Picklelily99 · 26/04/2024 02:39

The long term friend 'visits frequently' - this is what worries me!!! WHY does she visit frequently? Is it to have some sort of relationship with your husband? Is this a cosy little escapade for the pair of them?

Fraaahnces · 26/04/2024 02:42

I think you need to stop protecting him… Let people know that he’s cheated before (and with whom, when, etc…) and tell them everything about this situation. He is such a coward that this is what he is protecting himself from mostly… even more than you finding out.

PersephonePomegranate23 · 26/04/2024 07:37

Poppalina37 · 25/04/2024 22:39

Right, I ditched my ex-husband and sister 😵 over something similar.... it still makes me feel pig sick now....

But, I've ended up raising our 4 children more or less alone because he just couldn't cope with us splitting up.

That was 14 years ago....despite everything, we are still very fond of each other.... I don't know why I couldn't find it in my heart to forgive him..... parts of me wish I got support/counselling. It's definitely over now but that's more because of how I feel.... like what was the point of us separating and him missing all of the years with our children to just undo that now that they are older ☹️.

I know lots of people say LTB.... but your friend could just be one of those women that likes to have what others have just because she can... it's some weird empowerment vibe and men are just fickle at times... I'm not saying what he's done isn't bad.... it is.... but we all can get lazy and complacent in relationships.... after a few drinks he probably felt flattered that another beautiful woman wanted him.... even if it was just for 6 minutes.

You are married to this man.... in your heart you must know whether this is just a massive mistake and poor judgement on his part or whether this is how your husband acts...

I married the love of my life but in my heart I knew my sister was one of many.... he just thought I'd forgive it.... only you know. X

Oh come on, you di the right thing - if he couldn't be arsed with his own children once you split, he sure as hell wouldn't have bothered with you! What a weak excuse! You couldn't forgive him because he's an utter prick.

You can be as fond of someone as you like, but fondness isn't deed - that's where the hard relationship work is. Fondness is completely passive, kissing someone else is not.

The bar on MN is in the gutter it's so low at times. The person who is cheated on is not responsible for the break up of a family - that's what the cheater did the moment they transgressed. The excuses made for men make me sick - drunk, can't resist a woman throwing themselves at them, fickle, flattered by some attention. It's absolutely pathetic.

janssen719 · 26/04/2024 10:16

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Mmhmmn · 26/04/2024 10:30

I wouldn't be able to look at him. Vomit-inducing. Whatever the reasons behind that happening, it's just so sick I wouldn't be able to move on from that. As pp said, you don't have to decide right now. You might decide to give it a go and a bit down the line, decide otherwise. Don't let him make you think that you have to decide now and that's it. He broke your trust in a terrible way and you'll feel how you'll feel.

Glad you've dumped the friend - noone needs friends like that. (Same can be said of disloyal husbands though)

CrunchingNumbers · 26/04/2024 10:46

For me, it'd be the end because it's the second time he's cheated on you. He's had his second chance, why on earth would he deserve a third one?

Mmhmmn · 26/04/2024 10:49

On the title of this post - being OTT would be smashing his car windscreen with a golf club, cutting up his work shirts etc. Not recommending that, just saying!

Rania78 · 26/04/2024 10:52

Poppalina37 · 25/04/2024 22:39

Right, I ditched my ex-husband and sister 😵 over something similar.... it still makes me feel pig sick now....

But, I've ended up raising our 4 children more or less alone because he just couldn't cope with us splitting up.

That was 14 years ago....despite everything, we are still very fond of each other.... I don't know why I couldn't find it in my heart to forgive him..... parts of me wish I got support/counselling. It's definitely over now but that's more because of how I feel.... like what was the point of us separating and him missing all of the years with our children to just undo that now that they are older ☹️.

I know lots of people say LTB.... but your friend could just be one of those women that likes to have what others have just because she can... it's some weird empowerment vibe and men are just fickle at times... I'm not saying what he's done isn't bad.... it is.... but we all can get lazy and complacent in relationships.... after a few drinks he probably felt flattered that another beautiful woman wanted him.... even if it was just for 6 minutes.

You are married to this man.... in your heart you must know whether this is just a massive mistake and poor judgement on his part or whether this is how your husband acts...

I married the love of my life but in my heart I knew my sister was one of many.... he just thought I'd forgive it.... only you know. X

My god @Poppalina37 ….you are such a victim….there are so many red flags in your post. Please use therapy asap. It looks to me like Stockhold syndrome or trauma bonding of some kind.
If he wanted he would have been part of your children’s lives.
No, it’s not all down to the “evil” woman who “makes the poor man” to cheat. It takes two to tango and it may have been him seducing her - was it your sister? Double whammy…unforgivable

FinkleFlint · 26/04/2024 11:27

Rania78 · 26/04/2024 10:52

My god @Poppalina37 ….you are such a victim….there are so many red flags in your post. Please use therapy asap. It looks to me like Stockhold syndrome or trauma bonding of some kind.
If he wanted he would have been part of your children’s lives.
No, it’s not all down to the “evil” woman who “makes the poor man” to cheat. It takes two to tango and it may have been him seducing her - was it your sister? Double whammy…unforgivable

wtf kind of post is this 🙄

Poppalina37 · 26/04/2024 11:31

@Rania78

I'm far from a victim! I rarely speak to either of them!

I just wondered if we had counselling at the time whether we could have survived it!

It wasn't easy raising my children alone!

I just think she's knows her husband better than anyone on the internet!

I'm sorry that as I've grown older I don't agree with the.... leave him scenario!

There are children involved.

BeverForget · 26/04/2024 11:34

It is not a drunken snog.
It is an intimate moment.
Of course it is cheating.
And the fact that they did it so easily, whilst not directly implying that it has happened before, shows that they were both comfortable enough with the idea to have no misgivings about doing it.

Good luck though, OP, whatever you decide to do x

DogMa73 · 26/04/2024 11:35

Gosh I really feel for you here.
You’ve had some time to stew on what happened and now hopefully some other perspectives may help you decide what to do.
Personally I would bin the friend. She sounds like trouble whether she intends it or not, completely oblivious to her own charms (or not!). Men can be so silly and weak sometimes, my partner has kissed people when we’ve fallen out, desperate for any attention and affection to soothe the bruised heart. I just say ‘any port in a storm!’, make him feel stupid and remorseful, but almost accept how pathetic and childlike their fragile egos are. The danger here is you can harden to them, and the love will never quite fully repair.
If you stay, he’ll need to put in the work and prove himself to you. You might want to adopt a ‘one strike and we’re done’ policy, even if you count any misdemeanors inwardly rather than making him feel he’s permanently under extreme pressure to be the perfect husband.
Therapy would be beneficial, especially if he’s not great at communicating. Sounds like he has heaps to offload, and you’re going to have plenty too. But it only works if the love is still there, and you both want to move forward together. I’d had many difficult years with my partner (mostly due to his drinking and recently diagnosed ADHD) and he says he’s tried really hard since we went to therapy, but because he continues to have such destructive ‘episodes’ I have finally hit my limit, and it’s time to call it quits. The love was still there for a long time but has gradually faded on my part as a result of all the trauma I’ve been through. I fully understand and sympathise that financially it is a nightmare trying to split - joint assets, sell the house, find a new place to rent (I can’t afford to buy alone), etc. never mind the admin, stress and emotional upheaval involved. That’s why I’d say work at it first, but only if its in the best interests of yourself and your family, and there’s a chance you may be able to forgive him once the communication floodgates have opened ! It will take a lot of time and work, but I wish you all the very best, whatever you decide.

Rania78 · 26/04/2024 11:35

Poppalina37 · 26/04/2024 11:31

@Rania78

I'm far from a victim! I rarely speak to either of them!

I just wondered if we had counselling at the time whether we could have survived it!

It wasn't easy raising my children alone!

I just think she's knows her husband better than anyone on the internet!

I'm sorry that as I've grown older I don't agree with the.... leave him scenario!

There are children involved.

He could still co-parent though. If he wanted. And continue paying for his kids.
There would be the additional cost of a second home but this is his problem.

Rania78 · 26/04/2024 11:36

Poppalina37 · 26/04/2024 11:31

@Rania78

I'm far from a victim! I rarely speak to either of them!

I just wondered if we had counselling at the time whether we could have survived it!

It wasn't easy raising my children alone!

I just think she's knows her husband better than anyone on the internet!

I'm sorry that as I've grown older I don't agree with the.... leave him scenario!

There are children involved.

@Poppalina37 you have already fallen into the “poor man who my evil sister seduced”. Like he has no responsibility. Blaming it all on the woman? Why?

FinkleFlint · 26/04/2024 11:49

@Poppalina37

You sound chock full of resolve and determination. I would ignore idiotic, bizarre posts arrogantly interrogating your life and making wildly uninformed armchair diagnoses.

This was the same poster who went on and on for pages insisting that the OP secretly wanted the situation with her H and friend to happen and subconsciously instigated it by – going to bed? Despite OP gamely considering the point and politely stating that this wasn’t the case.

I guess it’s a mn thing – one of these eye roll and move on types

Poppalina37 · 26/04/2024 11:52

@FinkleFlint thanks for your understanding x

I decided not to reply to her again.... my self esteem or life choices aren't wrapped up in keyboard warriors opinion 🙄

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