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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
Iaskedyouthrice · 23/04/2024 13:27

Winter2020 · 23/04/2024 12:32

If you do actually want to know the I think the best chance of getting someone to talk is to ask your ex-friend.

I would normally agree with this but it is highly likely that OP's DH and ex friend are still in contact. It will end up them two against the world. I would leave her well alone.

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 13:41

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 23/04/2024 13:22

' And it has nothing to do with class or education.'

No, it's to do with morals and expectations and common decency and trust.

I can only speak for myself, but I would never ever do that to my friend !

Even If I thought / felt that her husband was god's gift and the most handsome, clever and wonderful man I had ever met.

Couldn’t agree more.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 13:42

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 12:39

Yeah agreed. I know what you mean.
However, I would keep these kind of men/women away mainly because I would have picked up on the fact they lack respect for other people’s families/boundaries. In the same way I wouldn’t accept a bad client for my business. Especially women have spider sensors around these things.
Thus my question to the OP, who seems exceptionally intelligent in her posts: Could you subconsciously want this to happen? Are you really happy with your marriage or were you looking for an excuse to break up?
It‘s a very sensitive question, I know and I do think that most MNs will react badly to it, however you have to admit that such an intelligent woman would at least have though “what if, I d better be careful”. Especually with a man who has cheated before and a “friend” who admittedly is easy/looks for men’s attention.

No, I don’t think I subconsciously wanted this to happen. I had been taking some fairly major steps to improve my marriage, some of which he didn’t engage with particularly. I was aware that we had our issues but I thought at the core of it was mutual devotion and a love that would win out. While I’d not actually articulated that before, I feel a bit juvenile for having harboured that silly thought now.

I also, rightly or wrongly, trusted them. I didn’t push them together, lob in a bottle rum, slam the door shut, turn the lights down, turn Barry White up and wait to see what happened.

When we all met, we were in our twenties, partying hard, part of a big group, and it was just fun. She’s been part of our lives and my closest confidante for many years. In previous marriage or relationship wobbles, she was who I’d go to. She always championed him to me, when I was feeling wobbly.

I do wonder if a bit of it is perhaps jealousy that I have (or thought I had, I suppose) my life all sorted out. As time went she used to sometimes make joking/snippy remakes suggesting I’m somehow bourgeois compared to her wild free-spiritednsss.

I think she is insecure and craved validation from men and perhaps got a frisson of excitement from luring men away from women, even me. Who knows.

OP posts:
Rania78 · 23/04/2024 13:43

Winter2020 · 23/04/2024 12:32

If you do actually want to know the I think the best chance of getting someone to talk is to ask your ex-friend.

Hmm not a good idea probably. She may be one of these delusiobal people who are conpetitive and think everyone fancies them.

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 13:44

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 13:07

It is happening though.
And please, come down from your white horse and this attitude “in my circles this doesn’t happen because we are of a certain class/level”. If you unlift the curtain on what goes on behind closed doors you might be shocked. And it has nothing to do with class or education.

I actually hadn’t read right to the end of your post and thought you were still talking about people subconsciously setting their oh up as they wanted out ( which IME is not very common) and was trying to shut down that line as I think it seems the OP wants a break from dissecting it all now and I was not sure getting her to wonder if she precipitated it all was quite fair.

Kittywittywoo · 23/04/2024 13:52

I think they have done this before sadly. He didn't exactly jump in suprise when she put her arms around him did he ? So sorry O/P

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 13:53

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 13:42

No, I don’t think I subconsciously wanted this to happen. I had been taking some fairly major steps to improve my marriage, some of which he didn’t engage with particularly. I was aware that we had our issues but I thought at the core of it was mutual devotion and a love that would win out. While I’d not actually articulated that before, I feel a bit juvenile for having harboured that silly thought now.

I also, rightly or wrongly, trusted them. I didn’t push them together, lob in a bottle rum, slam the door shut, turn the lights down, turn Barry White up and wait to see what happened.

When we all met, we were in our twenties, partying hard, part of a big group, and it was just fun. She’s been part of our lives and my closest confidante for many years. In previous marriage or relationship wobbles, she was who I’d go to. She always championed him to me, when I was feeling wobbly.

I do wonder if a bit of it is perhaps jealousy that I have (or thought I had, I suppose) my life all sorted out. As time went she used to sometimes make joking/snippy remakes suggesting I’m somehow bourgeois compared to her wild free-spiritednsss.

I think she is insecure and craved validation from men and perhaps got a frisson of excitement from luring men away from women, even me. Who knows.

Most likely yes.
And yes I do think there is a bit of jealousy on her side there. I don’t know how a person like this thinks and how they end up there. I cannot imagine it’s the first time she does it though. There must be a pattern.
As for him, just get him to stay in a separate room at the moment. Up to you what you want to do and If you want to work this out. It’s disgusting on his side that he did this in your home. The home you are paying for. He is worse than her actually. He disrespected you all for a woman of ambiguous morals. Also, you mention that men fall on her feet. I think it’s most likely she throws herself at them, They find easy sex and then she tells the world “he fancies me”. No. He is using you as you are just easy sex. Just a better option to mast@rb@ti@n

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 13:55

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 13:44

I actually hadn’t read right to the end of your post and thought you were still talking about people subconsciously setting their oh up as they wanted out ( which IME is not very common) and was trying to shut down that line as I think it seems the OP wants a break from dissecting it all now and I was not sure getting her to wonder if she precipitated it all was quite fair.

I think the OP already replied to me and said that she is sure she didn’t want subconsciously to end things and is sure about it. Just put it out there as a thought. No bad intentions. Just thinking outside of the box.

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 14:08

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 13:55

I think the OP already replied to me and said that she is sure she didn’t want subconsciously to end things and is sure about it. Just put it out there as a thought. No bad intentions. Just thinking outside of the box.

Edited

I do know what you are meaning in that it is very common for a partner wanting out to stir things up in the relationship as if to convince themselves the relationship was unable to be salvaged - or even to encourage the other to end it. But I think it would be a whole (huge) step further to subconsciously orchestrate betrayal by both your oh and your best friend because there aren’t many things more painful.

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 14:14

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 14:08

I do know what you are meaning in that it is very common for a partner wanting out to stir things up in the relationship as if to convince themselves the relationship was unable to be salvaged - or even to encourage the other to end it. But I think it would be a whole (huge) step further to subconsciously orchestrate betrayal by both your oh and your best friend because there aren’t many things more painful.

One could “let it happen though”. And I am not talking about the OP here. She definitely didn’t want this to happen as she said.
Sometimes we don’t have the courage to end a relationship and we need an “excuse” or to vilify the other party.

bettybadger · 23/04/2024 14:16

So sorry you're going through this OP.

To me, the way you describe your DH's guilty demeanour the following morning suggests that:

  1. That night was the first time something 'big' had happened
  2. It was very possibly more than the kiss you saw on the doorstep

I don't think anyone has raised this question yet (sorry if they have) but are you sure nothing had happened inside the house already? (Not necessarily sex but maybe a more kissing.) They were out of earshot in a more 'secluded' part of the house.

If they'd been up to stuff together before, I don't think they'd have acted so suspiciously. However, neither of them sound like they'd feel guilty about a brief kiss. They've only confessed to what they know you saw.

Take care of yourself OP - sending solidarity x

debbs77 · 23/04/2024 15:13

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 13:53

Most likely yes.
And yes I do think there is a bit of jealousy on her side there. I don’t know how a person like this thinks and how they end up there. I cannot imagine it’s the first time she does it though. There must be a pattern.
As for him, just get him to stay in a separate room at the moment. Up to you what you want to do and If you want to work this out. It’s disgusting on his side that he did this in your home. The home you are paying for. He is worse than her actually. He disrespected you all for a woman of ambiguous morals. Also, you mention that men fall on her feet. I think it’s most likely she throws herself at them, They find easy sex and then she tells the world “he fancies me”. No. He is using you as you are just easy sex. Just a better option to mast@rb@ti@n

Omg this rings so true. In my case the other woman found herself in the situation when she supposedly always swore she would never be with a married man. Yet did it twice. Would often cause other women issues because their husbands always fancied her. So of course, absolved herself of any blame at all.

Any decent woman would never have been alone with your husband when you went to bed. She would have left and all called it a night x

FinkleFlint · 23/04/2024 15:16

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 16:13

This is hitting home. I think because looking back at it, it feels obvious as a chance to cheat, I feel like a twat for trusting them both.

Sorry just seen this. I don’t think you were a twat in any way, shape or form, I think it’s the most natural thing in the world to trust that your husband and best friend can be alone in a room together without being sleazy and sneaky.

I think particularly when you’ve all known each other from younger partying days as part of a group and have mutual friendships with one another – it’s totally within the norms of your shared history to not think to much about staying up for a drink, and is just the same dynamics you would have had years back. (By contrast if it was a person you’d just met would seem more obviously unnecessary and inappropriate).

I think your instincts are impeccable and you sensed immediately that something had gone on. Right up until the moment it happened, it didn’t have to happen.

It’s definitely the sort of thing I would have done a few years ago in 20s / early 30s – ie, sat up to carry on a few drinks with the other half of a couple of friends (while female friend went to bed) and 100% not thought anything of it. My attitude now is more just that I wouldn’t feel comfortable myself in that kind of setting with a friend’s husband or bf, as I just feel aware now that it kind of blurs the tone of the relationship. And without moments like that there’s not really an opportunity for these drunken ‘mistakes’ to happen, or for an inappropriate sense of intimacy to develop.

Likewise to staying up late drinking alone with a dude who’s not my partner (nor my own close friend).

I just would want to avoid that situation in order to keep boundaries clear. And also to avoid any possibility of my own judgement being blurred by alcohol as I would not want to risk my relationship.

And all that being said, I’ve definitely fallen asleep while my partner’s stayed up and finished off the wine with a friend. Like you, never gave it a second thought.

What they’ve done does not reflect on you in any way, shape or form. It’s not your job to police them, it’s their job to manage themselves appropriately.

BirthdayRainbow · 23/04/2024 15:21

Please don't underestimate the pain of someone who has fucked up NOT doing everything they can to make it right. I've been there.

sweetgingercat · 23/04/2024 15:45

I have been thinking about your thread since I first read it yesterday. I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

I wondered about what would happen if this was my DH and best friend. The first thing I know is that if she came to stay, he would be the one going to bed earlier for night wake ups and she and I would be the ones talking up late.

I also wondered why your H was crying to her about feeling miserable and not talking about it to you? Do they have a history of discussing emotions and feelings? Is this something the three of you have done together in the past. Have you noticed an emotional closeness or connection between them in the past? It seems odd that he would go from being sad and emotional and needing support to dancing so swiftly.

Have you checked up on other things. Is her number in his phone, have they been in touch separately since?

maclen · 23/04/2024 15:48

I would worry that this isn't the first time this has happened... Maybe more has happened and your H is now trying to push her away and that is why he was upset and this only lasted 6 minutes....

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 15:49

OP do not go down the road of blaming any of this on yourself. Just don’t.

I’m objective, I’ve got nothing invested but would emphatically state that if you had to stay up to guard him and this woman in your own home it wasn’t a relationship that could be defended from external temptation.

I sometimes think this lightheartedly when people say how much their dog loves them ( and let’s be honest dogs work that way and they do live their owners) . But I still sometimes think : well you’ve got them on a leash and unable to feed themselves, meet people, go anywhere etc without you so don’t feel too flattered! But really that’s what it comes down to. If to make this relationship work you had to police him and remain standing in front of him at all times for him to remember his loyalty to you ( and you were only upstairs) that just wasn’t sustainable for you. It isn’t your fault.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 15:59

Thank you @Calliopespa

OP posts:
Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 16:06

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 15:59

Thank you @Calliopespa

I’m sure he does love you btw: he’s just screwed up. And it remains to be seen how he handles that as to whether you feel ok about things.

SgtOliviaBenson · 23/04/2024 16:39

danitheastrologer · 22/04/2024 22:25

You are mad to end your marriage over that. You are mad to allow any other women to sleep in your house. You are mad to go to sleep and leave another women drinking with your husband.

This is nuts! If you can't trust your husband to not sleep with a woman sleeping in your house or drinking alone with him then you shouldn't be married to him! @danitheastrologer have you never had another woman sleep over at your house, ever? A female relative or friend? Why?

PersephonePomegranate23 · 23/04/2024 16:51

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 12:14

OP, all these years didn’t it ever happen to you that she could be a threat to your marriage? We women usually pick on these things early on and cut these kind of women out of our lives and don’t bring them into our family. Especially leave them alone on a drunken night with our husbands.
Please don’t shoot me, is there any chance you subconsciously wasn’t happy and wanted to get rid of him? And again subconsciously you kind hoped this would happen so that you get rid of him?
I can’t imagine an intelligent woman (and you do seem extremely intelligent from your posts) would bring such a woman (beautiful, sexy, clever, kind of sl@ty/easy) and leave her drinking with her husband late at night at a romantic setting.
Are you sure you were happy before and didn’t want out? Apologies for asking and I know many MNs will shoot me but it is very strange you haven’t picked up anything on this woman all these years? You also mentioned that he thought he had reasons to think you might leave him? Why?

Wrong reply quoted - sorry!!

SgtOliviaBenson · 23/04/2024 16:58

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 12:14

OP, all these years didn’t it ever happen to you that she could be a threat to your marriage? We women usually pick on these things early on and cut these kind of women out of our lives and don’t bring them into our family. Especially leave them alone on a drunken night with our husbands.
Please don’t shoot me, is there any chance you subconsciously wasn’t happy and wanted to get rid of him? And again subconsciously you kind hoped this would happen so that you get rid of him?
I can’t imagine an intelligent woman (and you do seem extremely intelligent from your posts) would bring such a woman (beautiful, sexy, clever, kind of sl@ty/easy) and leave her drinking with her husband late at night at a romantic setting.
Are you sure you were happy before and didn’t want out? Apologies for asking and I know many MNs will shoot me but it is very strange you haven’t picked up anything on this woman all these years? You also mentioned that he thought he had reasons to think you might leave him? Why?

This is another nutty take. There have been a few women over the years who have made a play for my DH. It's never been a problem because I trust him! I couldn't be in a relationship where I felt I had to monitor my husband's interactions with other women in case he cheated! What's the point?

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 17:09

SgtOliviaBenson · 23/04/2024 16:58

This is another nutty take. There have been a few women over the years who have made a play for my DH. It's never been a problem because I trust him! I couldn't be in a relationship where I felt I had to monitor my husband's interactions with other women in case he cheated! What's the point?

my pint is not on the relationship with husband. My point is on picking up friends who respect boundaries and I question why this wasn’t picked up earlier.

MsRosley · 23/04/2024 17:21

Blondiebeachbabe · 22/04/2024 14:04

My first H did similar, many many times. We too had small children, so I did try to move past it, but after 4 years, I threw in the towel. In that 4 year period, he just did more of the same. Always when drunk, and always with my friends.

As we were in the process of separating, he slept with my very best friend in the world, so I actually lost my marriage and my friend at the same time. I absolutely hate him now. He has done the same in every subsequent relationship, so I think that's just who he is.

If I was in your shoes now, with my current DH, I'd walk away without hesitation. It's a huge betrayal from both of them, in your bloody house while you sleep upstairs (I also had this scenario as well).

Please, please don't continue your relationship with your "friend" either. She's absolute scum.

I'm so sorry. How absolutely awful.

MsRosley · 23/04/2024 17:36

OP, sending supportive vibes. I too suspect there was more to it than this incident. You could try pretending you've found out everything and see how reacts. I don't know. My first thought was it was just a kiss but I don't think you can possibly trust him going forwards.