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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
FinkleFlint · 23/04/2024 11:50

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 10:28

I’ve no doubt.

I suppose that could be a bit inconclusive in terms of their story as I guess he might have said something about being upset . Clearly not crying his eyes out though …

She’s mighty proactive with her consolations though isn’t she!

I don’t want to whip up conclusions where there isn’t evidence, but in terms of whether this was a first incident, it does sound a bit as though she was confident of a good reception.

I think it sounds like there’s been a vibe between them for a while that they hadn’t acted on before.

The fact OP immediately noticed a difference and they were both off the next morning says to me that this was the first time something had happened. If it’d been going on for a while they’d be more brazen and breezy about it, they wouldn’t be all awkward and off kilter the next day.

Agree though that she obviously approached him quite confidently

Pl242 · 23/04/2024 11:54

Wishing you all the best @Totalfuckingshitshow

FinkleFlint · 23/04/2024 11:55

Lifeisapeach · 22/04/2024 21:42

Sorry OP despite what people are saying above. I just get vibes that this isn’t isolated.

I wouldn’t be able to trust your husband going forward. Yes it was 6 minutes but to do that in your own home while you sleep is sickening. It’s pure betrayal. If he could do this once he will do it again. (If he hasn’t already).

to use excuses like dead parents is just terrible. There is no excuse.

sorry you are going through this.

I think 6 mins is a long time! It’s not –someone leans in for a drunken snog and then they break away after a few seconds

RazzlePuff · 23/04/2024 11:57

You miss the 2-faced friend because she was was blowing sunshine up your bum whilst also secretly sabotaging your happiness. Don’t give that c word the satisfaction. The best revenge is not give her any attention, negative or positive. She is just dead now. Sad lonely dead person.

Noseybookworm · 23/04/2024 11:57

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 11:43

Thanks @Calliopespa. I’ve appreciated your posts. I think blurring fear with established truth is a good warning.

I feel like my head is spinning a bit and I’m unable to shake the feeling that I don’t know everything. He’s admitted that he wouldn’t have told the truth had it not been for the cctv.

I think the advice on here that I don’t have to do anything now is good. But, I hate living in limbo and am desperate for resolution, one way or another. I know that’s pain and impatience driving that, and is not practical, but it stems from something one wise poster said, which is that after a couple of weeks in the doghouse he’s likely to get impatient that I’m not over it yet.

I'm struggling to be fully present for my baby so I’m going to step away for a bit and try to get my shit together.

I have told him today he has spectacularly failed to do enough about this so far, and moping around with sad eyes is just irritating me. I’ve made it clear he’s not to just enter part of the house without warning and that we need to get a plan in place for how we manage the children and other responsibilities for now. I’ve told him it’s in him to fix this, not for me to say what I need.

I’ve got nothing in my diary to look forward to so I’m going to change that. I’m also going to start ‘getting my ducks in a row’ to use the old MN thing.

The friend in question is out of my life. I’m very sad about that today for a number of reasons. My other friend didn’t know and is being amazing.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. It’s been really useful for me.

Look after yourself lovely 💐 you are doing so well after such a shock and betrayal. Take your time and spend time with people who'll support you x

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 11:59

Just to add, I’m looking back at things with a different lens now and there’s been a few occasions where he’s complimented her about something and she’s preened like I’ve never seen. It always bothered me.

I brought her into our lives years and years ago and it’s rocked me that this has happened now. I don’t suppose I’ll ever really know what may have happened between them in the past.

OP posts:
Projectme · 23/04/2024 12:00

@Totalfuckingshitshow I've not read all the replies; just your updates so apologies if this has been mentioned already but you mention in one of your updates:

"But honestly, it feels like the latter. I truly never thought he’d cheat again, so it has blindsided me but oddly, I’m also not surprised. It’s just scary thinking about everything I’d have to do if I ended my marriage."

Sorry OP, did I miss an update where you'd confirmed that this hasn't been the only time that he's nearly/actually cheated? Have you already had to deal with previous infidelities on his behalf and you thought your relationship was obviously worth saving?

The fact that they'd kissed probably wouldn't concern me overly if there had been no evidence of him having previous dalliances with other women but if you've already survived an affair, he's being an absolute bell-end and you need to dump.

And you are right to dump your 'friend'; she's no friend, she was a predator and jumped at the opportunity to massage her own ego at your expense.

For me the deal breaker would be the fact that they both lied. To your face. The only reason you know what happened is because you have internal CCTV. I don't think I could build my life with a liar. Especially over something like that.

Sparklfairy · 23/04/2024 12:05

He’s admitted that he wouldn’t have told the truth had it not been for the cctv.

Crikey. Well that would be it for me. Obviously come to your own decision, but personally, this is where my mind would go.

  1. He's not sorry he did it, he's sorry he did it where there was CCTV.
  2. Once you've 'calmed down and got over it', he'll just be more careful next time.
  3. Added bonus, you've got rid of the friend, so he can sneak around elsewhere and there's less/next to no chance of getting caught.
  4. Plus the fact that, ya know, he's admitted he would have lied to you indefinitely had there been no CCTV evidence. I could never trust him again.
Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 12:12

I’m sorry it’s happened OP. It’s understandably heart-breaking.

It’s a good idea to take a break from this now.

I do understand the desire to take decisions when you feel like you’re sitting on a hot plate and can’t relax but try to hold your hand until you know more.

As painful as it is, I’m guessing you’d rather have seen that footage and not be sailing along in ignorance . Well, you know the answer to that as you chose to look. So you’re in a more powerful position than you might have been.

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 12:14

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 11:59

Just to add, I’m looking back at things with a different lens now and there’s been a few occasions where he’s complimented her about something and she’s preened like I’ve never seen. It always bothered me.

I brought her into our lives years and years ago and it’s rocked me that this has happened now. I don’t suppose I’ll ever really know what may have happened between them in the past.

OP, all these years didn’t it ever happen to you that she could be a threat to your marriage? We women usually pick on these things early on and cut these kind of women out of our lives and don’t bring them into our family. Especially leave them alone on a drunken night with our husbands.
Please don’t shoot me, is there any chance you subconsciously wasn’t happy and wanted to get rid of him? And again subconsciously you kind hoped this would happen so that you get rid of him?
I can’t imagine an intelligent woman (and you do seem extremely intelligent from your posts) would bring such a woman (beautiful, sexy, clever, kind of sl@ty/easy) and leave her drinking with her husband late at night at a romantic setting.
Are you sure you were happy before and didn’t want out? Apologies for asking and I know many MNs will shoot me but it is very strange you haven’t picked up anything on this woman all these years? You also mentioned that he thought he had reasons to think you might leave him? Why?

Janetime · 23/04/2024 12:17

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 12:14

OP, all these years didn’t it ever happen to you that she could be a threat to your marriage? We women usually pick on these things early on and cut these kind of women out of our lives and don’t bring them into our family. Especially leave them alone on a drunken night with our husbands.
Please don’t shoot me, is there any chance you subconsciously wasn’t happy and wanted to get rid of him? And again subconsciously you kind hoped this would happen so that you get rid of him?
I can’t imagine an intelligent woman (and you do seem extremely intelligent from your posts) would bring such a woman (beautiful, sexy, clever, kind of sl@ty/easy) and leave her drinking with her husband late at night at a romantic setting.
Are you sure you were happy before and didn’t want out? Apologies for asking and I know many MNs will shoot me but it is very strange you haven’t picked up anything on this woman all these years? You also mentioned that he thought he had reasons to think you might leave him? Why?

I’m not sure she was a threat in the way you mean, as in they didn’t fancy each other and sit googly eyed. This seems more like two drunk people enjoying the attention from the other.

Janetime · 23/04/2024 12:18

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 12:14

OP, all these years didn’t it ever happen to you that she could be a threat to your marriage? We women usually pick on these things early on and cut these kind of women out of our lives and don’t bring them into our family. Especially leave them alone on a drunken night with our husbands.
Please don’t shoot me, is there any chance you subconsciously wasn’t happy and wanted to get rid of him? And again subconsciously you kind hoped this would happen so that you get rid of him?
I can’t imagine an intelligent woman (and you do seem extremely intelligent from your posts) would bring such a woman (beautiful, sexy, clever, kind of sl@ty/easy) and leave her drinking with her husband late at night at a romantic setting.
Are you sure you were happy before and didn’t want out? Apologies for asking and I know many MNs will shoot me but it is very strange you haven’t picked up anything on this woman all these years? You also mentioned that he thought he had reasons to think you might leave him? Why?

And don’t you see you’re missing that the fundamental issue is if you need to keep other women away to keep your partner faithful it’s done anyway?

Winter2020 · 23/04/2024 12:32

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 11:59

Just to add, I’m looking back at things with a different lens now and there’s been a few occasions where he’s complimented her about something and she’s preened like I’ve never seen. It always bothered me.

I brought her into our lives years and years ago and it’s rocked me that this has happened now. I don’t suppose I’ll ever really know what may have happened between them in the past.

If you do actually want to know the I think the best chance of getting someone to talk is to ask your ex-friend.

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 12:39

Janetime · 23/04/2024 12:18

And don’t you see you’re missing that the fundamental issue is if you need to keep other women away to keep your partner faithful it’s done anyway?

Yeah agreed. I know what you mean.
However, I would keep these kind of men/women away mainly because I would have picked up on the fact they lack respect for other people’s families/boundaries. In the same way I wouldn’t accept a bad client for my business. Especially women have spider sensors around these things.
Thus my question to the OP, who seems exceptionally intelligent in her posts: Could you subconsciously want this to happen? Are you really happy with your marriage or were you looking for an excuse to break up?
It‘s a very sensitive question, I know and I do think that most MNs will react badly to it, however you have to admit that such an intelligent woman would at least have though “what if, I d better be careful”. Especually with a man who has cheated before and a “friend” who admittedly is easy/looks for men’s attention.

MILTOBE · 23/04/2024 12:43

Oh ffs @Rania78 don't be ridiculous! Why on earth would you think that the OP wanted this to happen? This is a very old friend and presumably she's friendly with both of them. Of course she's going to be in their house.

And stop saying the OW is slutty. Do you have a similar word for the OP's husband?

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 12:48

MILTOBE · 23/04/2024 12:43

Oh ffs @Rania78 don't be ridiculous! Why on earth would you think that the OP wanted this to happen? This is a very old friend and presumably she's friendly with both of them. Of course she's going to be in their house.

And stop saying the OW is slutty. Do you have a similar word for the OP's husband?

Oh yes: Mega tw@t.
I know that it’s a posting that will instigate a lot of reactions. I didn’t say “she wanted it”, I said that “maybe subconsciously she wanted it”. I don’t think it’s something that has crossed her mind and she has to think about it before she makes any decisions.
I think that there are men/women out there who are very insecure and want to believe that evryone fancies them. It’s not uncommon for someone to lure a friend’s man/woman and then say “he/she came onto me”.

MyPerfectHotel · 23/04/2024 12:56

The fact that he accepted the embrace with absolutely no resistance or doubt tells you that this is not the first time it's happened.

The fact that he can do this with your best friend, also makes me think that he would find cheating with a stranger, effortless.

sorry this is happening to you

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 12:58

MyPerfectHotel · 23/04/2024 12:56

The fact that he accepted the embrace with absolutely no resistance or doubt tells you that this is not the first time it's happened.

The fact that he can do this with your best friend, also makes me think that he would find cheating with a stranger, effortless.

sorry this is happening to you

And he dared to disrepsect her to the level of doung it in their own house for which she pays for as well.

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 13:00

MILTOBE · 23/04/2024 12:43

Oh ffs @Rania78 don't be ridiculous! Why on earth would you think that the OP wanted this to happen? This is a very old friend and presumably she's friendly with both of them. Of course she's going to be in their house.

And stop saying the OW is slutty. Do you have a similar word for the OP's husband?

Yup. Sleazy. He should have unhooked those arms from round his neck.

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 13:01

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 12:48

Oh yes: Mega tw@t.
I know that it’s a posting that will instigate a lot of reactions. I didn’t say “she wanted it”, I said that “maybe subconsciously she wanted it”. I don’t think it’s something that has crossed her mind and she has to think about it before she makes any decisions.
I think that there are men/women out there who are very insecure and want to believe that evryone fancies them. It’s not uncommon for someone to lure a friend’s man/woman and then say “he/she came onto me”.

Edited

It’s relatively uncommon in my circles.

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 13:07

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 13:01

It’s relatively uncommon in my circles.

It is happening though.
And please, come down from your white horse and this attitude “in my circles this doesn’t happen because we are of a certain class/level”. If you unlift the curtain on what goes on behind closed doors you might be shocked. And it has nothing to do with class or education.

Causewerethespecialtwo · 23/04/2024 13:12

MyPerfectHotel · 23/04/2024 12:56

The fact that he accepted the embrace with absolutely no resistance or doubt tells you that this is not the first time it's happened.

The fact that he can do this with your best friend, also makes me think that he would find cheating with a stranger, effortless.

sorry this is happening to you

Totally agree with this. You say she approaches him and puts her arms around him - had this been the first time then you would see him flinch, react, look surprised etc….. but his immediate and natural reaction is to put his arms on her to reciprocate the embrace. This isn’t the first time that they have crossed the boundaries.

Causewerethespecialtwo · 23/04/2024 13:13

He told you that had there been no CCTV evidence, he would never have admitted to the kiss. He is telling you that he will never admit to cheating unless there is evidence. Therefore you know with 100% certainty that this man cannot be trusted to tell the truth. If you ask him if anything more has happened between them then you cannot know if his response is truth or lie. If he cheats on you again in the future, you can be completely certain that he will lie about it and try to keep it covered up. But he’ll obviously do it where there is no cctv next time!

I don’t know how you can forgive and stay with a man who is brazenly telling you that he himself is a lier and cannot be trusted to tell the truth?!

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 23/04/2024 13:22

' And it has nothing to do with class or education.'

No, it's to do with morals and expectations and common decency and trust.

I can only speak for myself, but I would never ever do that to my friend !

Even If I thought / felt that her husband was god's gift and the most handsome, clever and wonderful man I had ever met.

GameOfJones · 23/04/2024 13:22

Causewerethespecialtwo · 23/04/2024 13:12

Totally agree with this. You say she approaches him and puts her arms around him - had this been the first time then you would see him flinch, react, look surprised etc….. but his immediate and natural reaction is to put his arms on her to reciprocate the embrace. This isn’t the first time that they have crossed the boundaries.

I also agree with this.

On paper, in a hypothetical situation then yes..... I think that I could forgive my husband for having a drunken kiss.

However it is never just one incident in isolation is it? There are other factors here at play.

He has cheated on you before.

He didn't seem surprised that she approached him and put her arms round him.

His first instinct was to lie and gaslight you.

He's admitted he wouldn't have ever told the truth if you didn't have the CCTV evidence.

He didn't offer to go up to bed and leave you staying up with your friend.

You say your relationship has not been great and you've wanted to go to counselling in the past.

He's already putting conditions in place. You must forgive him if he is to make a change.

All of that makes me think there has been something there before. If nothing physical then definitely flirtation. Even if that's not the case, he has cheated again and he has told you that he would have continued to lie if not caught out. He would have left you feeling suspicious and confused in order to save his own skin.

You can't trust him. He's demonstrated he is not a person that can be trusted.

I would spend this time thinking very hard about the future, making sure you protect yourself emotionally as far as possible and getting things sorted in your own mind.