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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
BirthdayRainbow · 23/04/2024 08:47

I agree with @SomeTrashBloke . Are you a bloke?

In the scenario I talk about now, he cheated to make himself feel better. She cheated for love.

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 08:50

BirthdayRainbow · 23/04/2024 08:39

I'm not clear if you've made a decision but my advice is this. Tell him you are deeply hurt but you want to work this out. The only way you can move forward and start afresh is if he tells you everything that has happened between your friend. Then when he does, ask if there's been anyone else reminding him you can only move forward with true clarity and honesty.

Then if there's been anything, even if there hasn't, leave him. You have to be smarter than him to get to the truth and tbh it doesn't sound hard to be cleverer than him.

Yes I’m very aware if you end it all now you will never get the truth OP. That’s not to say they truth will make you want to work at things; but it’s the least you are entitled to in order to know in the coming years you have made the right decision. You have to string him along through a process. And who knows, it may turn out differently.

But, satisfying as it may seem to end it immediately, ultimately you’re the only one with anything to lose from that. Keep him hanging… and her frozen out while you work through things to your satisfaction . Ironically, a quick end will also let them feel exonerated:” well it was nearly over anyway” type thing.

Rania78 · 23/04/2024 09:00

SomeTrashBloke · 23/04/2024 08:45

This isn't good, however remember men don't do this for the same reasons a woman would. Women are unfaithful for better, men are unfaithful for more.

Which is more dangerous for a marriage is open for debate. Let us say, a man will have a mistress; when a woman has an affair, the marriage is usually over.

I'd ditch the 'friend' though.

Edited

Oh-my-God!
A man can be justified, a woman not!
And let’s blame it all on the woman and make sure he doesn’t lose anything!
What an outrageous misogynistic post!

Hippobot · 23/04/2024 09:06

"The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night."

He's certainly "very fond of" your friend! I immediately though that his twitchyness when you go out with her is most likely because he is worried that she will cheat on him, not that you will. Having experienced something similar myself, everything you have written points to this being a longstanding affair and your husband has been into her for ages. I'm sorry OP, this is heartbreaking. However, it's a very good reason to end a friendship with someone who has proven she cannot be trusted and doesn't value you and the same goes for your marriage. I made the mistake of staying and "working through it". Turns out that after the initial grovelling stage he just had no respect for me and realised he could do as he liked because I didn't leave him. It took me to have a child with him to realise that his selfishness went far beyond his affair. I eventually left him but I really wish I had done it when I discovered the affair. That was the right time to get out and a very very good reason for the relationship to be over.

If he is prepared to do that to you with your friend whilst you are in the house then I imagine he shows little respect for you in other areas too. Have a think about that. You deserve better. If you look to yourself with real love and compassion, what is the right thing to do for you. People often stay because it seems impractical to split up. The hassle of initially sorting out the practicalities is really not a good reason to stay in the long run.

theduchessofspork · 23/04/2024 09:06

I’d echo what other posters have said, I wouldn’t end the marriage at this point - but I would be clear with your husband it is in special measures and if the only way it can potentially be saved is if he starts taking an equal part in making it work.

In the meantime I would get a plan in place for what happens if you do separate - financial, housing - all that.

I think you will feel better if you have both bases covered for you and the kids.

Hippobot · 23/04/2024 09:12

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 11:20

I think this is what I need to find out. I just know I won’t get a straight answer though. It feels like they both wanted damage limitation as I confronted them both, separately, and asked for honesty before revealing my hand. I didn’t get it.

Because it wasn't a one off brief kiss. If it was they would have held their hands up if they were really sorry and it was a mistake. They are protecting their relationship, not you.

Secondstart1001 · 23/04/2024 09:14

It feels preplanned it was your turn to be up with the baby so had to go to bed although it was your friend staying over! Why should it be his turn to stay up with your friend? I do feel potentially it’s been going on for longer .. sorry Op.

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 09:17

theduchessofspork · 23/04/2024 09:06

I’d echo what other posters have said, I wouldn’t end the marriage at this point - but I would be clear with your husband it is in special measures and if the only way it can potentially be saved is if he starts taking an equal part in making it work.

In the meantime I would get a plan in place for what happens if you do separate - financial, housing - all that.

I think you will feel better if you have both bases covered for you and the kids.

Yes, plan, plan, plan OP.

One other observation: lots of posters have kindly shared their experiences where they have found out the worst and accordingly warned you it might well have been going on behind your back for ages, they forgave and it still didn’t work, to prepare yourself for the second ( currently supportive) friend to have known about it all along etc etc.

These are wise cautions. But equally don’t confuse them with established truth. As far as I understand, you don’t know any of that to have been true. It’s easy to feel the emotion behind things we fear almost as dramatically as if we know they are true. Keep sifting the truth from the fear. The reality might be as tame as he claims ( it also might not …)

Hippobot · 23/04/2024 09:22

All the posters that are saying to give him another chance etc - I wonder if any of them have actually been in your position and have given the husband a chance and all has worked out well. I highly doubt it. Be interesting to read a poll on that...to see if those that gave a 2nd chance have a good relationship 5 to 10 years later. In my personal experience (and that of friends who have stayed after infidelity), it does not work out that way.

Rubyrubyrubyrubee · 23/04/2024 09:26

Maia77 · 22/04/2024 23:25

I feel he's probably succumbed to the seduction while under the influence of alcohol. It looks like she took advantage of the circumstances. I'm saying this because you've said that she seeks and enjoys getting attention from men. To her this was probably just another 'victory' and a boost to her ego and that's why she was so happy the next day, whereas your husband felt guilty and remorseful. I understand it's not easy seeing this, but maybe don't make any rash decisions about separating from your husband. As for your 'friend', good riddance.

I agree with this. Alcohol is a poison and makes people do stupid things. It’s not an excuse but it is an explanation.

It doesn’t make sense to me the suggestion that this has been going on a while or was anything other than a one off. But what would really mess with my head is the minimising of it, particularly if he is actually pretending that he was crying. Have you established whether that was actually true or not from the footage? That would be the real crunch point for me personally. If he owned up and admitted it, it was a stupid drunken error of judgement and I felt confident that that was the truth, I wouldn’t end a marriage over it.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 09:42

TitanTins · 22/04/2024 20:10

@Totalfuckingshitshow

I think you need to recognise that you are actually the strong one in all of this, even though you may not feel that way.

These are two people who have screwed up badly, they have behaved very weakly.

They’ve also put some very difficult and life changing decision making right at your door. This is so unfair.

Your children clearly have the proactive, strong, trustworthy and good decision maker in you. Be proud of that. Whatever you decide to do next, you will be right - because you are ‘you’. You have all those qualities.

Thank you. This is a lovely thing to say. I hope you’re right.

OP posts:
Hippobot · 23/04/2024 09:43

piscofrisco · 23/04/2024 08:17

I'm 8 years in from my situation and I still feel more aggrieved by the loss of my friendship than my then h. He had form to be fair-I knew what he was capable of so it wasn't a total surprise-doing it with a friend was a new low but he had had an affair before so it wasn't a total shock. Her though. She had been my confidant and I thought i had been hers. She was using what I said to her to gain traction with him. It was a whole new level of betrayal and grief really.
I'm glad your other friend is on your side. I lost some people as they remained neutral and in the hurt of it all I couldn't really be around them-even their neutrality felt a bit like betrayal when it was all so raw.

Lots of love to you OP. These are the hard yards, but you will come through it. Maybe a bit altered and more cynical but come through it you will x

Do you really think he would tell the truth? He was all out prepared to gaslight and lie to cover his arse. He will not divulge anything beyond the bare minimum. I have been in this situation, I stayed. Even with proof of the cheating my ex told the absolute minimum he could. He even pretended he had cut off all contact with her, deleted and blocked her and even changed jobs. This was ALL for show for my benefit. He did all that but just made other ways to continue the affair with her.

You can demand he tells all but he definitely won't. It's all lip-service bollocks to manipulate you into letting him off lightly.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 09:44

debbs77 · 22/04/2024 20:15

I could've written your post myself.

But she was a new mum friend who I invited over for a play date with my daughter. He was home too and we all got on.

One night they were staying for dinner, kids all in bed, all under 6. No drinking involved. I decided to go to bed as I'd be up with our 9 month old in the night.

Came down in the morning to find them both asleep. Her on the sofa, him on the cfloor but alongside her (if that makes sense).

Went out together the next day, and like you, something felt off.

From then on they would spend time together sometimes when I was working, or he would help her with DIY etc.

Long story short, they had a full blown affair in the end, married, had a child together. It was a horrendous time of my life.

She ended up having an affair with his brother.

I think that even IF it was those 6 minutes and nothing more, you'll never trust him again. I personally couldn't live with that constant worry.

Bloody hell. You poor thing. I hope life is better now.

OP posts:
Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 10:05

danitheastrologer · 22/04/2024 22:25

You are mad to end your marriage over that. You are mad to allow any other women to sleep in your house. You are mad to go to sleep and leave another women drinking with your husband.

Thanks for that.

OP posts:
Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 10:07

ExcitedButNervous0424 · 22/04/2024 22:48

How long ago did this actually happen OP?

A week or so ago.

OP posts:
Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 10:23

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 08:05

I’m also wondering OP ( and sorry if I missed it) did he actually look distressed on the footage?

Not especially. Like he was just talking. He says something then takes a sip of drink, then she walks to him and really tenderly puts her arms right around his neck and he wraps his arms around her. Even just writing that makes my heart race. Ugh.

OP posts:
thewreckofthehesperus · 23/04/2024 10:25

How unlucky would they have to be that the first time they acted inappropriately it was caught on camera? Id be dubious and if they've had opportunity previously I'd find it hard to believe it hasnt happened before. Ill echo previous posters in saying he'll only admit to what he thinks he can get away with. I'd do some reserch and look up the cheaters 'script'.

Remember you can take your time here, dont allow him to try rush you in any decision, whether that be forgiveness or not.

In my own personal experience my first marriage ended as he had a full blown affair with a 'mutual friend'. In reality he'd brought her into our life as he'd met her through a hobby and although I'd never really liked her or gotten a good vibe from her I was made to feel guilty if I expressed any concerns as she had a disability.
She was at my hen (after I put my foot down as they wanted her to go on his stag) came to our wedding and then nearly two years later I found out theyd been having a relationship for at least a year. I fully believe it was on going from when he met her but couldnt prove it.

He gaslit me and used all the tricks in the book to try spin it that I was at fault. Full on DARVO and rewriting of history, he properly messed with my mental health and it took me years to recover my trust in people again. Its extremely difficult when the one person in the world you should be able to trust turns on you like that, so mind yourself and protect yourself at all costs.

I recommend therapy or a trusted friend you can speak to about all this. As hard as it is to come to terms with now in the conversations you'll have with him he'll have an agenda, whether that be just fixing the relationship or to be seen as the 'good guy'. So make sure you have someone who is impartial and can help you work out what you want and give you proper persepective on the reality of the situation.

Flowers for you as its a really shit time but you will come out the other side.

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 10:28

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 10:23

Not especially. Like he was just talking. He says something then takes a sip of drink, then she walks to him and really tenderly puts her arms right around his neck and he wraps his arms around her. Even just writing that makes my heart race. Ugh.

I’ve no doubt.

I suppose that could be a bit inconclusive in terms of their story as I guess he might have said something about being upset . Clearly not crying his eyes out though …

She’s mighty proactive with her consolations though isn’t she!

I don’t want to whip up conclusions where there isn’t evidence, but in terms of whether this was a first incident, it does sound a bit as though she was confident of a good reception.

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 23/04/2024 10:38

Sadly he showed his true colours years ago -

' In our early days there was some cheating on his part, when we were very young and hadn’t been together very long, '

and you have excused it as ' we were very young and hadn’t been together very long, '

and therefore you gave him a 2nd chance.

Do leopards change their spots ?

can leopards change their spots...

MILTOBE · 23/04/2024 11:15

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 10:23

Not especially. Like he was just talking. He says something then takes a sip of drink, then she walks to him and really tenderly puts her arms right around his neck and he wraps his arms around her. Even just writing that makes my heart race. Ugh.

That really isn't the first time that's happened, OP. I'm really sorry - I've been cheated on too and I know how hard it is to hear this, but the way they acted wasn't the sign of them crossing that boundary for the first time.

Rubyrubyrubyrubee · 23/04/2024 11:16

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 10:23

Not especially. Like he was just talking. He says something then takes a sip of drink, then she walks to him and really tenderly puts her arms right around his neck and he wraps his arms around her. Even just writing that makes my heart race. Ugh.

This has changed my perspective tbh

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 11:34

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 23/04/2024 10:38

Sadly he showed his true colours years ago -

' In our early days there was some cheating on his part, when we were very young and hadn’t been together very long, '

and you have excused it as ' we were very young and hadn’t been together very long, '

and therefore you gave him a 2nd chance.

Do leopards change their spots ?

can leopards change their spots...

Sometimes leopard cubs actually do change spots. Otherwise as mums we’d all just give up 😞But I’m not sure how young young was.

Calliopespa · 23/04/2024 11:35

Rubyrubyrubyrubee · 23/04/2024 11:16

This has changed my perspective tbh

In that it seems established intimacy?

Quitelikeit · 23/04/2024 11:37

Op

Do you think this was the first time - who pulled away? 6 minutes is a long time to kiss

He must have been drunk or else he would have remembered about the cameras

Totalfuckingshitshow · 23/04/2024 11:43

Thanks @Calliopespa. I’ve appreciated your posts. I think blurring fear with established truth is a good warning.

I feel like my head is spinning a bit and I’m unable to shake the feeling that I don’t know everything. He’s admitted that he wouldn’t have told the truth had it not been for the cctv.

I think the advice on here that I don’t have to do anything now is good. But, I hate living in limbo and am desperate for resolution, one way or another. I know that’s pain and impatience driving that, and is not practical, but it stems from something one wise poster said, which is that after a couple of weeks in the doghouse he’s likely to get impatient that I’m not over it yet.

I'm struggling to be fully present for my baby so I’m going to step away for a bit and try to get my shit together.

I have told him today he has spectacularly failed to do enough about this so far, and moping around with sad eyes is just irritating me. I’ve made it clear he’s not to just enter part of the house without warning and that we need to get a plan in place for how we manage the children and other responsibilities for now. I’ve told him it’s in him to fix this, not for me to say what I need.

I’ve got nothing in my diary to look forward to so I’m going to change that. I’m also going to start ‘getting my ducks in a row’ to use the old MN thing.

The friend in question is out of my life. I’m very sad about that today for a number of reasons. My other friend didn’t know and is being amazing.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. It’s been really useful for me.

OP posts:
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